Ultimate characters weaker?

[Soujaboy]

It seems people are in love with saying that Ultimate Characters are weaker than there 616 counterparts in terms of strenght, and what they can do. Some of the characters they name are Hulk, Magneto, Thor, Ironman, Wolverine, ext is this true? or is it the fact that the Ultimate Universe is more realistic so it makes these characters seem weaker?

This is how I view the subject

Thor is the main one who has been toned down as he isn't a god or it hasn't been stated yet. At least not as powerful a god, he is still strong enough to be one of the heaviest hitters, holding off the other Ultimates in combat and putting up a good fight against the Hulk. but he is definitely more vulnerable.

In Magneto's case it's hard to say. No real limits have been shown to what he can do, and his defeats were due to a betrayal by quicksilver, a sneak attack he didn't expect, and being defeated by a furious Colossus. I'd say he's at least equal in power and maybe a bit more devious.

Ironman is still big time, but he lacks some experience. His personal failings and mistakes make him less powerful, not the potential strength he possesses.

The Hulk, the first or second strongest character in the Ultimate Universe. In my opinion as so far no one has come close to stopping him one on one. He took out all the Ultimates including Ironman and Thor during his rampage through NY till Wasp went in his head and stung him, and he also tore through an alien invasion with ease. He has also snapped an adamantium needle, ripped wolverine in half, etc. Since we haven't seen his full potential, it is unknown what he can do, but I think it would be a mistake to call him weaker.

Wolverine has his healing powers amped up and is labeled the most deadly(or maybe dangerous) mutant in the world. seems he can survive most anything just like 616 but he's also been shown to heal faster, or seems to at least. he's definitely as powerful or more so than the 616, although he's a bit more of an ass in this one.

Colossus got his powers pumped up to be one of the most powerful in the UU. Carried a sub up from the bottem of the ocean, stopped a train without budging, fought through magneto's hold in one case, and defeated Thor, and Ironman in the same issue. Colossus is stronger, and more durable than his 616 counterpart seeing as he hasn't actually been damaged in the Ulitmate Universe. So I say Ultimate Colossus is far stronger than his 616 counterpart.

Jean, you just can't tell how she matches up. she shows huge spikes in power then goes back to normal. she's young and it's early in the series, you gotta see how it turns out before you can really match her to phoenix jean.(well, she won't be blowing up whole worlds in the UU, so i guess you can assume she's not as powerful as dark phoenix.)

As for Storm, Dazzler, etc. it's unsure what they can do. they are portrayed as inexperienced, but may prove just as powerful as 616 in time.

rogue didn't absorb miss marvel, she doesn't have the whole strength and flight thing going for her. about the same as the present 616

iceman has shown more power then the original, see the massive ice attacks against the sentinels and in ultimate war. but he doesn't have the same control over manipulating his body and such. id say more powerful.

Spidey's bout the same, the villians have been toned up in general. green goblin is a juiced up monster, the vulture has a nasty new costume, electro can put up a fight against the ultimates, etc.

FF, they're young, tough to say what they will make of themselves, though sue storm has shown some big time power

[nbg430]

I dont think that you can just say yes or no to this question, It sort of changes for each character and because the Ultimate Universe is so new compared to the normal Marvel universe it's not easy to even say what everyones full power really is.

[EZMOHR]

There was a Wizard article like almost two years ago that gave the strengths of the characters. They showed for physical strength the Hulk was the strongest, at lifting at max 18 tons. This was according to Millar and Bendis. They gave Colossus 15 tons (Which seemed contradicted when he lifted the sub.) Thor was maxed at 15 tons, and Iron Man at 10 tons.

There was no scale for Spider-Man, and they gave Cap more strength at 8 tons.

I think that for strength, you should throw out this old Wizard article now. I would say as far as strength, you gotta go with.....Namor, Colossus, Thing, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man. But, like I said, can't really go by that old article now.

[Agentum]

The Cap. America seems to be alot stronger as an Ultimate.

[Kayless]

It seems people are in love with saying that Ultimate Characters are weaker than there 616 counterparts in terms of strenght, and what they can do. Some of the characters they name are Hulk, Magneto, Thor, Ironman, Wolverine, ext is this true? or is it the fact that the Ultimate Universe is more realistic so it makes these characters seem weaker?
For the most part, yes the Ultimate characters are weaker. The exceptions being: Ultimate Captain America, Ultimate Colossus, Ultimate Quicksilver, Ultimate Black Widow, and Ultimate Namor.

There was a Wizard article like almost two years ago that gave the strengths of the characters. They showed for physical strength the Hulk was the strongest, at lifting at max 18 tons. This was according to Millar and Bendis. They gave Colossus 15 tons (Which seemed contradicted when he lifted the sub.) Thor was maxed at 15 tons, and Iron Man at 10 tons.

There was no scale for Spider-Man, and they gave Cap more strength at 8 tons.

I think that for strength, you should throw out this old Wizard article now. I would say as far as strength, you gotta go with.....Namor, Colossus, Thing, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man. But, like I said, can't really go by that old article now.
Is this (http://img84.exs.cx/img84/6799/wizard1600440458xy.jpg) the chart you're talking about?

[Jake V]

Some are stronger, some are weaker. It isn't as simple as yes or no.

[EZMOHR]

For the most part, yes the Ultimate characters are weaker. The exceptions being: Ultimate Captain America, Ultimate Colossus, Ultimate Quicksilver, Ultimate Black Widow, and Ultimate Namor.


Is this (http://img84.exs.cx/img84/6799/wizard1600440458xy.jpg) the chart you're talking about?




Yeah, that was the one. I couldn't remember everything on it.

[Ragnorok64]

Yikes!! that chart is so out of whack with what those characters have been shown doing it's painful to read. Though I guess it is a few years old.

[Chou Blaster]

It's Wizard! Never trust them!

And Ultimates is still young, so they can still pull off feats.

Those stronger than 616: Read Kayless's statement.

But yeah, Magneto seem sonly capable of shifting metal, 616 Magneto could screw around with the whole energy spectrum of the Earth. (As Magnetism plays a part, in a lot of things.)

[ednemo]

Well, honestly, the strength levels that Marvel has worked in don't really work from a physics angle. Without mass, Ultimate Colossus could not pick up a sub. The weight would drive him down like a tent peg into the Earth. Same with the Hulk, if he can pick up 100 tons, which is 2 million pounds. he does not have enough leverage to do anything with it. With the Ultimates they were trying to go a little more realistic on strengths...at first. But that went away. For example, lets say I can lift 20,000 lbs. that is 10 tons. Which is equal to...uh, something friggin huge. Now if I were to pick it up, it's not so much the weight of the object, but the mass. For example, I will assume most people here can pick up a 42 inch TV, weighing in at 250 pounds. However, the TV is so wide, and weighted on the screen side, that picking it up by yourself, is near impossible. Now Imagine that same TV the size of a 2 story house. Picking it up will be even harder. If you are strong enough to lift it, it will basically come apart in your hands when you attempt to gain purchase. If you did manage to get it up off the ground. The combined weight would be focused on roughly two 12"x3" feet. The physics is just not going to happen.

Just something to think about.

[Korinthian]

If you had the mass, however, you could be a serial-crusher!

[Harold of the Rocks]

Some are stronger, some are weaker. It isn't as simple as yes or no.This post nails it!

[BizarroBeachHead]

If you had the mass, however, you could be a serial-crusher!
Yeah, but he'd have to be a huge friggin guy!

[WoodenDummy]

picking it up by yourself, is near impossible.

To be fair I think he dragged it more than lifted it. I think his main problem would be dragging it and himself though the sea bed that he was probably sinking into.

For example, I will assume most people here can pick up a 42 inch TV

...well...maybe if we all help each other, we are nerds after all.

[Romus]

I like that Strength chart... if they want to be more realistic that is the way to go. So Millar had say in this lineup?

[ednemo]

To be fair I think he dragged it more than lifted it. I think his main problem would be dragging it and himself though the sea bed that he was probably sinking into.



...well...maybe if we all help each other, we are nerds after all.

Heh, I hang out with a lot of big guys. I guess I'm just use to everyone around me being able to press at least 300 lbs.

[LowMan]

...well...maybe if we all help each other, we are nerds after all.

Tell me about it.... I'm quite tall and big so people just assume that I can carry heavy stuff. I can't! Y_Y

[DBZ MAN]

Well they certanally all have have much less experiance.

[WoodenDummy]

Well they certanally all have have much less experiance.

This is a very important point, it's the main reason Wolverine was able to disable the Thing so easily.

[Romus]

This is a very important point, it's the main reason Wolverine was able to disable the Thing so easily.

How did he do that?

[WoodenDummy]

How did he do that?

He used leverage, the Thing took a massive swing at him and Wolverine booted him in the head. I don't have a scan but in the pic the Thing is stood on one leg.

This lets Logan jump over him ready to stick his claws into his head.

I know a lot of people felt that this was over way to easy and way to fast but the way I see it the Ultimate Thing is still just a kid (a kid made of rock sure), and Ultimate Wolveine is a born fighter who has been around for over a 100 years, a paid assassin with deep roots in Japan and Martial Arts that he most probably didn't study in a room full of 12 year olds in little white suits who all get a back belt within a year at the local YMCA. *grin*

[Soujaboy]

Here go's the scan

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltThingandWolverine.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltThingandWolverine2.jpg

All those scans show me is how truely weak Thing is. I didn't no that Thing could bleed that easily he got kicked in his nose, and sarted to bleed, and Wolverine cut him, and he started to bleed. When Wolverine cut Colossus the only result was sparks.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ult.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltimateColossus.jpg

[Korinthian]

I guess we found that razor for Thing after all.

[WoodenDummy]

Here go's the scan

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltThingandWolverine.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltThingandWolverine2.jpg

All those scans show me is how truely weak Thing is. I didn't no that Thing could bleed that easily he got kicked in his nose, and sarted to bleed, and Wolverine cut him, and he started to bleed. When Wolverine cut Colossus the only result was sparks.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ult.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/UltimateColossus.jpg

I'd never noticed the splash of blood before. He got booted in the mouth, but by the looks of it Things mouth is kinda normal looking, do you think it's the same as Colossussesses eyes?

[Romus]

imo, that was kinda lame, again they had to please the wolverine fans. I could see his kick distracting Thing, but knocking him on his ass like that? Wolverine doesn't kick him in the direction Ting is leaning, but knocks him back the opposite direction, on his back.

Soujaboy ... don't expect future writers to consider these scenes. The 616 had sparks fly off of him in an early-days scene too, but I think everyone feels wolverine can cut him these days. Sym did it once with an alternate reality wolverine claw be he was also super strong and had enough force behind it to make it cut.

[Romus]

And what's with Wolverine's hair? I'm surprised they aren't matching the hair in the movie coming out.

[WoodenDummy]

imo, that was kinda lame, again they had to please the wolverine fans. I could see his kick distracting Thing, but knocking him on his ass like that? Wolverine doesn't kick him in the direction Ting is leaning, but knocks him back the opposite direction, on his back.

I can agree with this, looking at the scans you're right.

[Soujaboy]

im about tired of Wolverine Ultimate, and 616

[Loestal]

Well he isn't going anywhere....so you and him better make up and be friends.

[Soujaboy]

Well he isn't going anywhere....so you and him better make up and be friends.

I dont want him to go anywhere, I just want Marvel to stop making him out to be a God.

[Gargus]

Overpowered to me, especially the ultimate xmen charcters.

Magneto like pulls everything metal from a 10 mile radius, wolverine but burned and beaten and shot and turns around to get up again after jean explodes his heart in his chest, colossus carries a giant submarine out of the ocean like its nothing, professor x doesnt even need cerebro to mentally control someone on the other side of the earth and mentally makes the school look like something else to everyone all the time, iceman what turned 3 city blocks into ice fighting the sentinels or something once?

Ultimate captain america kicked the hulks behind?

And so on.

[Loestal]

Ultimate captain america kicked the hulks behind?
And so on.

Eh...he didn't beat Hulk up, more stunned him for a moment giving cap the time to inject him with the antidote...which didn't work.