Thoughts and Observations on OEL Manga

[apple pro]

First and foremost, this thread is NOT a OEL bashing thread. OEL manga at it's heart is still comics, and we all know how much hard work goes into each volume. This is merely a listing of observations we manga fans have accrued ever since it's introduction.

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I was in NYC's Forbidden Planet yesterday, one of the more famous comic shops in the city (it's located on union square, a very hip place). They have an entire floor dedicated to manga and anime. Although it's a small upstairs floor, it's still for the most part very nice and decently crafted manga section in a american comics store. This cannot be said for other big comic stores, where they merely section it off and mix them on a big shelf (often funkily shelved by publisher or TP by itself and everything else alphabetized).

So they have a stand filled with OEL manga that was meant to highlight TP's offerings. I have not read a OEL manga fully from front to back, but here are my thoughts as a potential customer looking at the covers and flipping through the art.

• Some OEL manga are very influenced by Japanese comics
- These manga feel like they actually could be from japan and then you see the authors are american.

• Some feel like indie american comics wrapped in manga packaging
- These manga have very distinct and beautiful art. There is very little that makes you think it's manga other than the format.

• Some feel like an existing type of american comic genre that is just wrapped in manga packaging
- These manga feel to me that they are not manga at all. They feel like american comics in manga format. The difference between this and the above bullet is that they intentially make the art look "manga-ish" and call it manga.

• Some are genuinely a blend between american and japanese influences
- These manga to me feel as though they are breaking new ground. They are respectfully pulling from both cultures equally to make a unique manga.

[apple pro]

• Some OEL manga are very influenced by Japanese comics
- These manga feel like they actually could be from japan and then you see the authors are american.

The art, story and genre is pulled from the existing japanese manga landscape. You would think they exist to 1. tell a good story but also 2. entice japanese manga fans to check out a OEL manga. I guess Tony Salvaggio's Psycomm would be a decent example.

• Some feel like indie american comics wrapped in manga packaging
- These manga have very distinct and beautiful art. There is very little that makes you think it's manga other than the format.

The art and story are unique and if described to you, you would not think it's manga at all. I suppose TP is just looking to give people with talent a shot they would not normally have with other publishers. The book that makes me think of this is Bizenghast. My thought on this is, why would I not just go get some Vertigo Trades.

• Some feel like an existing type of american comic genre that is just wrapped in manga packaging
- These manga feel to me that they are not manga at all. They feel like american comics in manga format. The difference between this and the above bullet is that they intentially make the art look "manga-ish" and call it manga.

I do not personally like it when Marvel slaps manga eyes on Spiderman and expect manga fans to flock. Japanese comics have a certain "feel" to it that is never that simple. I think some other small publishers also try to cash-in on the manga craze but are not finding the "true-spirit" that japanese manga has.

• Some are genuinely a blend between american and japanese influences
- These manga to me feel as though they are breaking new ground. They are respectfully pulling from both cultures equally to make a unique manga.

I think these are far and few between unfortunately. "I Luv Halloween" seems to be original in genre, original in art and has it's own "feel". It does not feel like an american comic, a japanese comic and does not feel as though it would work as an indie american comic either. It feels as though it's rightful place is inside a manga volume. It also feels as though it has i t's own "spirit" and creates it's own unique "feel".


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My final conclusion is, I hope the good books are sucessful and the bad books get filtered out. I think there will be a book sooner or later that will be so good, it will be hard to ignore. I already praised "I Luv Halloween" but the story doesn't sound like something I am very interested in. Maybe when that creator does his next OEL manga project it will be more enticing to me.

As of right this second, there is too much great japanese manga and great regular american comics coming out that I don't have room in my bidget for OEL.

[chojinlocke]

While I wish we had the praise of I Luv Halloween, I think you hit it on the head with what our team is going for with Psy-Comm. Thanks for checking it out and mentioning it.
I absolutely agree with you on ILH though. I think MBQ is in that genre as well. Both creators are cool and both have a lot of passion doing some great books. Although ILH is even more violent and adult than MBQ, it has sold really well I believe. I Like the "indie" books that are in OEL roster a lot. And, even though we all compete in sales (and for YOUR dollars :) ), I always feel like I'm in a great group of artists and creators (most of them extremely helpful and supportive) sailing this crazy uncharted sea.
Pretty good analysis. Feel free to PM (or email) me with your thoughts on the books you found and what your impressions are. I'm fascinated to hear more.
From your posts you're a true comics and manga fan. I need to get some more western comics, I haven't bought any in ages and one cannot live by manga alone!
-TS

[Pikachu]

Originally posted by Apple Pro
I was in NYC's Forbidden Planet yesterday, one of the more famous comic shops in the city (it's located on union square, a very hip place). They have an entire floor dedicated to manga and anime. Although it's a small upstairs floor, it's still for the most part very nice and decently crafted manga section in a american comics store. This cannot be said for other big comic stores, where they merely section it off and mix them on a big shelf (often funkily shelved by publisher or TP by itself and everything else alphabetized).

I've been to Forbidden Planet a few times. It's not bad. If you want a real manga store, go check out "Book Off" up the street. Actually, it's on the street right before the library's front doors. That's 2 floors of manga, and a third floor for music and books. Granted, it's all Japanese, and second hand, you still will be paying $2 for the latest manga from Japan. Some titles won't be available in the U.S. for months, and other will never be. Even if you don't read Japanese, looking at the art is enough to entice me to any Book Off!


Originally Posted by Apple Pro


• Some OEL manga are very influenced by Japanese comics

- These manga feel like they actually could be from japan and then you see the authors are american.
The great manga homage, a medium respected.

• Some feel like indie american comics wrapped in manga packaging

- These manga have very distinct and beautiful art. There is very little that makes you think it's manga other than the format.
Story telling woes -how do the Japanese do it?

• Some feel like an existing type of american comic genre that is just wrapped in manga packaging.

- These manga feel to me that they are not manga at all. They feel like american comics in manga format. The difference between this and the above bullet is that they intentially make the art look "manga-ish" and call it manga.
Manga Aesthetics & Face-lift

• Some are genuinely a blend between american and japanese influences.

- These manga to me feel as though they are breaking new ground. They are respectfully pulling from both cultures equally to make a unique manga.
Manga Spirit

I would add one more type to this list.

• Manga-ka for hire.
Some American comics that are drawn by Japanese comic artists.

-These are the manga in which an American company actually hires and collaborates with a real manga-ka from Japan to create an English version of their comic.

-I would say books much like Akia Asamiya's "Batman" or "X-Men" series qualify as this type. This is discernably seperate from "manga wanna'be" books like Marvel's Manga Spiderman. Since these books are done by a real and well known Japanese manga artists, they have a real manga feel, they are only drawing an American concept and story which is controlled more by the publishing entity than the artist himself.

Pika!

[Pikachu]

Which brings me to the greatest point about manga.

--The creators, artists, and story tellers have more control over the manga they are making, giving them extreme artistic merit. The equivillant in America would be Indie comics that make it big and find success.

--Due to more artistic control and less corporate control anything goes in manga. This is why manga visions, ideas, and stories can be so grand. The art and stories are allowed to flourish unhindered. However, this doesn't mean every manga will be genius. There is however a window which leads mainstream comics in Japan towards other venues and genres.

American comics tend to set a lot more editorial and publishing house control on their respected properties. This is why their has been a lack in growth in new ideas and genres over the last decade; not to mention a lack of growth in the industry as a whole. The only real growth in comics in America has come from the import of manga.

That's not to say new ideas haven't come about under the refined perameters of the American comic book market, there are many great new ideas all the time. Yet this strict corporate control has distilled many new tallents and slowed the process of making comics accesable for everyone of everytype. Annual rotations of entire creative teams almost make it impossible for there to be a Stan Lee and Jack Kirby epic style run on anything today. There have been such frequent turnovers, roll outs, changes, cut backs, and lack of commitment by the industry that there have been no grand stories in American comics for my entire generation.

However, there has been small change. You see it happening more regularly with special titles like "Spiderman Love's Marry Jane" catoring to new "uncharted" territories of comic book possibilities. Because some big wig at Marvel was smart enough to realize that the bazillion of shojo manga titles out there are selling like hot cakes they tried something inovative, make comics for women. Yes folks, women do read comics. It was only a matter of time before somebody realized that instead of stereotyping women in comics they should be making comics for women.

The changes may be happening too slowly for the American industry to get a firm fix on the new direction of comics. Since manga has boomed big time, there is no slowing down for the importation of Japanese comics. American comics will hold their ground and offer that unique superhero flavor, keeping a iron fist on their more lucrative properties, while the rest of us will look towards new comic frontiers for our comic book enjoyment.

With hundreds of original titles coming from Japan, indipendent American comics, and cutting edge quality Web comics, the American comic book market is just one "aspect" of the over-all comic book availability. In a sense, the American comic book publishers have receded enough to be considered a type of genre when faced with the future of comics. Gladly, it is a genre that won't be going anywhere. In fact, it only adds to the steady continuance of comic book popularity in America, all the while new mediums and sources of comic bookdom grow up around it.

Pika!

[apple pro]

• Manga-ka for hire.
Some American comics that are drawn by Japanese comic artists.

-These are the manga in which an American company actually hires and collaborates with a real manga-ka from Japan to create an English version of their comic.

-I would say books much like Akia Asamiya's "Batman" or "X-Men" series qualify as this type. This is discernably seperate from "manga wanna'be" books like Marvel's Manga Spiderman. Since these books are done by a real and well known Japanese manga artists, they have a real manga feel, they are only drawing an American concept and story which is controlled more by the publishing entity than the artist himself.


I disagree to an extent, if you have a mangaka working on a manga — it's authentic manga. I think those 2 books were first publsihed in Japan right? This would put it in the "foreign language license" section. I know for sure major american comic icons are all over foreign countries. Spiderman in India... Batman in europe... and etc etc

[Buzz Dixon]

Please remember that what you see reaching American shores is only the tip of the iceburg re manga in Japan. It's not all creator driven; a lot of it is work for hire schlepted out quickly to cash in on whatever's currently hot.

What reaches American shores is generally the best Japan has to offer. It would be like judging Hollywood only on the handful of films that get nomnated for an Oscar.

[Chocolove]

I disagree to an extent, if you have a mangaka working on a manga — it's authentic manga. I think those 2 books were first publsihed in Japan right? This would put it in the "foreign language license" section. I know for sure major american comic icons are all over foreign countries. Spiderman in India... Batman in europe... and etc etc

But the writers were American and at least in one case (X-Men) wrote the title like a lame late-afternoon soap opera. Now I have no idea what soaps in Japan are like, but it would seem that the American writers would be unable to 'infuse the Japanese spirirt/culture' into their writing.

Of course, the writer for X-Men (Chuck Auesten) is also doing an OEL with another Japaense artist, so if he writes that 'like a manga', would it qualify despite his obvious lack of Japaneseness ?

[apple pro]

Please remember that what you see reaching American shores is only the tip of the iceburg re manga in Japan. It's not all creator driven; a lot of it is work for hire schlepted out quickly to cash in on whatever's currently hot.

What reaches American shores is generally the best Japan has to offer. It would be like judging Hollywood only on the handful of films that get nomnated for an Oscar.


Out of the hundreds of different series out today, I only collect around 10. So what you are saying is very true. I'm not exactly sure if an OEL manga is better than an average quality japanese manga right now. Or at the very least, if you can spend only $50 per month on manga — are people willing to fit an OEL manga in there?

[Pikachu]

Just to point out... Akia Asamiya's "Uncanny X-Men" has not been released in Japan to date. It's strictly an American book done by a Japanese artist. His "Batman" piece was released in original Japanese, but only after DC comics scrapped his entire first story, then gave him a pre-made script from in-house, which he had to follow to a T. Asamiya's Batman was released in Japan.

The "Spiderman" manga by Kazumasa Hirai and artist Ryouichi Ikegami is a Japanese story, and although they had creative liberties, the story doesn't even use Peter Parker. Instead it's Takuya Yamashiro, a young highschool student who fights school bullies. I bought the entire re-release of this series in 2002 when they reprinted it to coincide with the second Spiderman film. The original release was in the 1970's, so the art and story is a big dated.

Where as with Asamiya's American hero works being done for the entire purpose of selling to an American market, Ikegami's Spiderman was not targeted towards American comic book enthusiasts. This is why I'd say Asamiya is an artist for hire. I would consider Asamiya's American work OEL manga, since they are designed for Origianl English Language speaking clients only (with Japanese release only done as an after thought). Kegami's work however was only made for Japanese, thus the reason I would say it's strictly manga -at least in the way we are using the term here.

Pika! :rolleyes:

[Ayo]

I used to be skeptical of OEL, but after attending a panel at NYComiccon I am officially a believer.

I just want to repeat a rumor that I heard whispered: some OEL is actually more popular with fans than "original" Japanese manga, here in the United States.

That's hot.

[Ayo]

They have an entire floor dedicated to manga and anime. Although it's a small upstairs floor, it's still for the most part very nice and decently crafted manga section in a american comics store. This cannot be said for other big comic stores, where they merely section it off and mix them on a big shelf (often funkily shelved by publisher or TP by itself and everything else alphabetized).

I went to both Forbidden Planet and Jim Hanley's yesterday, and I have to say that you're incorrect.

Jim Hanley's manga section is about the same size as Forbidden Planet's. It's just that Forbidden thrust their manga upstairs, where Hanley's has theirs on the main floor (since, y'know--that's all they have). And as you say, Forbidden's manga "floor" is more of an upstairs little room.