X-Men: Deadly Genesis # 4 - SPOILERS!!!

[xakko]

Excepted his resurection during Roy Thomas's run (having lied to his x-men about his death and having asked Jean to lie too.), before 91 and probably till onslaught, Charles could be considered someone with integrity.The character was respectable and he had depth none the less.
Today...
wasn't there an early episode where they had to fight Xavier's dark side? Or am I just thinking about the Micronauts crossover?

[Doom Hammer]

I agree on this. Xavier is being written too evil-like. Onslaught overdid it, and this...this just isn't right.

Really now?

After Xavier lost his students, he recruited a new group to rescue them.

We've known this for decades. Yes? We're all familiar with Giant-Size X-Men #1?

Okay, then.

It just so happens, though, that the second group he recruited died.

Okay...where is Xavier being evil? Does someone see an evil Xavier? I see no evil Xavier.

Did he kill the students?

No.

Did he force them, or coerce them?

No.

So where's evil Xavier?

Is it the mind-wiping thing? Hmm.

Do you know the circumstances of the mind-wipe?

No?

Do you even know for sure that Xavier mind-wiped them even? He probably did, but do you know?

No, you don't.

It's a very simple-minded view from which Xavier looks evil. Maybe he wiped Scott's mind, maybe he didn't. Even if he did, maybe Scott asked him to, to relieve the pain of losing a brother. Did he do that? I don't know. But calling Xavier evil is completely unsupported and inaccurate at this point.

But by all means, skip the explanation and draw conclusions about the book based on your own perceptions.

GEEZ!

[Sandy Hausler]

wasn't there an early episode where they had to fight Xavier's dark side? Or am I just thinking about the Micronauts crossover?

There was a Bill Mantlo fill-in in the mid to late 70s where that happened.

Sandy Hausler

[fishtaco]

Really now?

After Xavier lost his students, he recruited a new group to rescue them.

We've known this for decades. Yes? We're all familiar with Giant-Size X-Men #1?

Okay, then.

It just so happens, though, that the second group he recruited died.

Okay...where is Xavier being evil? Does someone see an evil Xavier? I see no evil Xavier.

Did he kill the students?

No.

Did he force them, or coerce them?

No.

So where's evil Xavier?

Is it the mind-wiping thing? Hmm.

Do you know the circumstances of the mind-wipe?

No?

Do you even know for sure that Xavier mind-wiped them even? He probably did, but do you know?

No, you don't.

It's a very simple-minded view from which Xavier looks evil. Maybe he wiped Scott's mind, maybe he didn't. Even if he did, maybe Scott asked him to, to relieve the pain of losing a brother. Did he do that? I don't know. But calling Xavier evil is completely unsupported and inaccurate at this point.

But by all means, skip the explanation and draw conclusions about the book based on your own perceptions.

GEEZ!Okay, maybe evil wasn't the correct word. Sorry. Maybe I meant dark secret(s).

[Stephane Garrelie]

wasn't there an early episode where they had to fight Xavier's dark side? Or am I just thinking about the Micronauts crossover?
there was one during the first encounter with the imperial guard and Firelord (Claremont/Cockrum), but like the Entity later in the Micronauts mini, He was a separate entity, a bad side of Xavier that became self-aware. It wasn't xavier becoming unethical. It was more like Cassandra Nova.
That did not made Xavier a bad man.

Today they're trying to make xavier more badass, like wolverine, cable or the punisher. I see him becoming more and more like the Chief in Morrison's Doom Patrol. And for those who remember the revelation in the last arc of Morrison's Doom Patrol run (the one with the candles maker) thats no good news.
And even if they will never go so far (even onslaught didn't go so far), this bastardisation isn't a good thing.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Today they're trying to make xavier more badass, like wolverine, cable or the punisher. I see him becoming more and more like the Chief in Morrison's Doom Patrol. And for those who remember the revelation in the last arc of Morrison's Doom Patrol run (the one with the candles maker) thats no good news.
And even if they will never go so far (even onslaught didn't go so far), this bastardisation isn't a good thing.

Don't agree at all.

They're simply showing the part of Xavier that makes mistakes.

Like the Xavier whop didn't realise, with the all-new all different team, that he couldn't just bark at them like he did with the original X-Men, and they'd obey, because they weren't kids.

Claremont's Xavier mellowed after the first couple of years of his all-new all-different lineup, but originally he was harsh, and unfeeling at times.During the late 80s and 90s Xavier became a somewhat flawless, kindly, father figure, who could do no wrong. This was naive, but it was the direction that happened, particularly after Claremont left the books.

This isn't an attempt to make him 'Badass!' which actually made me laugh out loud... :D

This is just an acknowledgement of the early Xavier who was written throughout the first 100 odd issues of this book. This mistake, as with the recent Danger Room revelations in Astonishing, relate to earlier periods in Xavier's development, which many people who never even glanced at that period don't remember.

But that doesn't mean they didn't or couldn't happen.

Xavier isn't perfect. In fact at times he's not actually very nice. In this post X-Movies cuddly Patrick Stewart times (Poor casting in my opinion) people tend to forget this.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Don't agree at all.

They're simply showing the part of Xavier that makes mistakes.no. they show an unethical man. not very respectable.

Like the Xavier whop didn't realise, with the all-new all different team, that he couldn't just bark at them like he did with the original X-Men, and they'd obey, because they weren't kids.I was there. Thats the comics of my generation. It was totaly different of what happened during the last 15 years. or if you take only the issues that are decently writen, of how Morrison wrote Xavier, of Whedon's in the Dangerbot arc, and of the picture of him that seems to be sketched so far in deadly genesis.

Claremont's Xavier mellowed after the first couple of years of his all-new all-different lineup, but originally he was harsh, and unfeeling at times.During the late 80s and 90s Xavier became a somewhat flawless, kindly, father figure, who could do no wrong. This was naive, but it was the direction that happened, particularly after Claremont left the books.
a man of another time yes. "unfeeling", if you want. But "during the late 80's and 90s Xavier became somewhat flawless etc..." Did we read the same comics?
And "Father figure" he was since his very first apearence. That didn't work with Wolverine.

This isn't an attempt to make him 'Badass!' which actually made me laugh out loud... :D Good: Laugh as much as you can, you'll live longer. (excepted if it kills you. be carefull with your heart.)

This is just an acknowledgement of the early Xavier who was written throughout the first 100 odd issues of this book. This mistake, as with the recent Danger Room revelations in Astonishing, relate to earlier periods in Xavier's development, which many people who never even glanced at that period don't remember.Frankly I did read every issues of the x-men from the begining till Claremont's departure in 91 (with the exception of the Sauron/savage Land/Magneto arc by Roy Thomas and Neal Adams, a collector from the 70's too expensive for me, never reprinted and impossible to find back in the 80's. and the Claremont/Liefeld issue with the Jean Bomb, never translated in french; I began original versions only in may 1990.). The "danger room revelations" like others recent things were totaly out of character.

But that doesn't mean they didn't or couldn't happen.

Xavier isn't perfect. In fact at times he's not actually very nice. In this post X-Movies cuddly Patrick Stewart times (Poor casting in my opinion) people tend to forget this.
No Xavier isn't perfect. He never was, excepted maybe under Stan Lee. But he was an ethical man. thats not anymore how he his writen (excepted in Claremont's excalibur vol.3). Today there seems to be an editorial mandate to bastardize him.

[Porcelain]

Okay, maybe evil wasn't the correct word. Sorry. Maybe I meant dark secret(s).
Moral ambiguity may be more what you were looking for.

Personally I've always seen this side of him as inherent to his character: a man who willingly puts children & young adults in the line of danger for his own (bordering on) fanatical ideology - not to mention a man who preaches equality yet practices segregation and frequently disregards personal privacy and the essence of freedom due to the very nature of his powers. It's not hard to believe that under certain circumstances he'd push it that little bit further.

It's refreshing to see this side of him explored and I hope it continues into Brubakers Uncanny run. From an ideological perspective, I would LOVE to see dissention in the ranks as to how his 'dream' should continue - there is sooooo much room for complex plots and dynamics there which are relevant to all of us. Course now the mutant population is down & the concentration is back on survival so that narrows the field, but the same stuff is still there, begging to be expanded upon.

Slight drift but: The ethical and moral obligations of telepathy was something I had hoped Morrison would have taken on, especially given the amount of insanely powerful telepaths he had in positions of power over a lot of kids. In addition the further segregation and elitism that arose from having a massive school full of just mutant kids, especially with the influence of people like Emma (which continued into Astonishing) - I really can't believe no one has attempted to truly dig into this considering how dense the subject is, it just begs for some major plots.

Just because it's comics doesn't mean subtext of a deeper nature shouldn't be explored in an intelligent manner. Then I'm a philosophy chick...ethics & morality of this nature are just as interesting to me as epistemology.

[fishtaco]

Slight drift but: The ethical and moral obligations of telepathy was something I had hoped Morrison would have taken on, especially given the amount of insanely powerful telepaths he had in positions of power over a lot of kids. In addition the further segregation and elitism that arose from having a massive school full of just mutant kids, especially with the influence of people like Emma (which continued into Astonishing) - I really can't believe no one has attempted to truly dig into this considering how dense the subject is, it just begs for some major plots. See X-Treme X-Men 20-23. Claremont addressed the difference in views regarding Xavier's segregation, and what Storm's team believes in. It was brilliant.

[Porcelain]

I did (albeit awhile ago and I no longer have the issues to hand) and imo it was under developed and not the kind of thing you brush away in 3/4 issues - shame really.


edit: (I think it's great that he addressed it, I just think there's so much more that can be done with it - even now.)

[streator]

i just read the issue, it didn't disappoint.
here's what i'm assuming happened:
moira's team becomes x-men and goes to krakoa and they are responsible for freeing cyclops (unlike the story part that has krakoa releasing cyclops to bring back more mutants to feed on). moira's team gets trapped by the island alongside the other original x-men still there. scott returns to xavier, and xavier wipes scott's memory of moira's team going to krakoa/them existing and forms the "all new all different" team to to try once more. they succeed in freeing the original x-men and escape the island. krakoa is sent to space with moira's team still inside it. they are in stasis until the hom energy wave wakes vulcan up and he's the only one who somehow survived.
it's not new, but that's how i think it will go down.

[Fastballspecial]

I like your theory, but the only part it doesnt explain why Xavier never tried to save them or even look for them. Thats the interesting part I am waiting to see how Brubaker spins it.

[Weapon Ick]

Like i said before, I just don't see Krakoa beaing able to defeat this 1.5 team. Thier powers are just suited perfectly for beating him. Thier demise will most likely be the fault of Vulcan. he is too powerful and can't control his powers. He's totally gonna blow it.

[streator]

I like your theory, but the only part it doesnt explain why Xavier never tried to save them or even look for them. Thats the interesting part I am waiting to see how Brubaker spins it.
maybe there was more evidence that suggested they (moira's team) had in fact died. i don't know.
it's even possible that he sent the "all new all different" team to rescue both the original team and moira's team and upon the "all new all different" failing to rescue moira's team, he erased them from all of their minds.
or something else is entirely plausible.

edit: it's still possible (with my second idea) that vulcan doesn't know wolverine or any of the "all new all different" team because he could have never seen them in their attempts to rescue he or his teammates. the "all new all different" could have known they were going to rescue moira's team without moira's team ever knowing that they were coming/came.

[Skute]

Like i said before, I just don't see Krakoa beaing able to defeat this 1.5 team. Thier powers are just suited perfectly for beating him. Thier demise will most likely be the fault of Vulcan. he is too powerful and can't control his powers. He's totally gonna blow it.

I would really like to see how they kill off Darwin

[Weapon Ick]

I would really like to see how they kill off Darwin

Yeah me too. It seems like it would just be really hard to take him down. This should be interresting.