Does anyone actually like BatDick?

[HalWho]

I have been reading alot of posts and noticed huge amounts of anamosity towards Batman and his attitude. Is there anyone out there that actually likes Batman and his attitude besides me? I'm going to hate to see him go...

[jadrax]

He has his moments.

Tower of Babel was excellent, as was his role in rebirth. But all in all I think you need a balance for his charicter to really work.

[Lubichev]

I can take BD in small doses. Like when he's had a bad day or week or something. But c'mon, one can only take so much of a surly attitude before they stop caring about a character. If he was an anti-hero, I could understand it, but he's not. He's a SUPERhero.

[chicagokmc]

i think his attitude adds to his unique-ness in the dc universe. i don't mind it because, at the end of the day, he is a superhero that does the right thing.

[Tadhg]

At this point, I'm more tired of the term "Batdick" then I am of the actual portrayal of the character.

[Leon Thomas]

Sometimes. Yeah.

[Booster Golden]

At this point, I'm more tired of the term "Batdick"

This phrase is dirty and funny all at the same time. BatDick :D

[Violently Apathetic]

I think his line in FKATJL defined his character the best 'I'm Batman, I don't enjoy anything.'

I don't mind him, in small doses, but I like my heroes more upbeat and fun. The brooding gets kinda old. Though he is fun in the Animated Universe because his sense of humor and fun has survived a little better.

[Watchman]

I'm indifferent.

It gets redundant, but at the same time, I like the dark Batman. Sort of weird, but whatever.

[tomasej]

I have no problem with him and enjoy reading his books. He is not the Batman I would prefer, but he is the appropriate Batman for the ever darkening DCU. I prefer a somewhat lighter Batman in a lighter universe--hopefully this will be the result of all this Crisis nonsense.

[Watchman]

I have no problem with him and enjoy reading his books. He is not the Batman I would prefer, but he is the appropriate Batman for the ever darkening DCU. I prefer a somewhat lighter Batman in a lighter universe--hopefully this will be the result of all this Crisis nonsense.
I don't know how dark Batman has to be to be considered "BatDick", but I've always liked the darker Batman. Perhaps it is my generation. I have read older Bat comics, and I prefer the darker version.

[Lubichev]

I'm all about a dark, badass Batman. What I don't like is the Batman who is at all times an absolute jerk to everyone around him. He treats the people in the Bat Family like shit. And broods and broods and broods and never lets a single person near him to try and help in any way, shape, or form. When you stop caring about a character things become a problem. Why would you want to contunie to follow the antics of an absolute jerk unless he was SUPPOSED to be a jerk?

[Major Danger]

I dunno. When I was kid we had the Adam West Batman and silly comics with all the gimmicks, though some were classics, (Joker's giant penny) a lot were completely forgettable and Batman being this uber-upright anal law abiding citizen got very silly. When they changed course and went with the Dark Knight I remembered why I liked Batman, this was furthered by Michael Keaton's first movie and every cartoon that has had Kevin Conroy voice Batman. So Bat-Dick, no I don't think of him that way. To me he's Dirty Harry in a cape and cowl. That's cool.

[Mainline]

My ideal Batman is the earlier seasons of TAS Batman. That was a character that could legitimately be dark, serious, and brooding while at the same time credibly crack a joke, have a sidekick, or show compassion ("Heart of Ice"!!). That said, there was something of a retro sensibility to it that I imagine made it more possible/credible. As the animated Batman entered the modern age with the League, he more or less transformed into BatDick... well on his way to becoming the bitter Bruce portrayed in Beyond.

He could still crack a joke, but it would nearly always be at another's expense or snapping sarcasm. Nor could he be credibly seen as enjoying himself out of his bat-persona or saddled with a sidekick anymore. JLU's Batman is a little too acerbic for my tastes, but tolerable. Full blown BatDickery only works if he ceases to interact with any other heroes, family, or friends.

[Hex77]

My favorite portrayal was in Venom. Where Batman is going to get more pills and he see's the blonde kid.

Kid: See, my daddy doesn't like people to see me. That's why I hide. Big as I am, it ain't easy to hide.

*Batman place a hand on his shoulder and smiles.*

Batman: You have no reason to hide. You look okay to me.

[meethraa]

I like it when it's played for laughs.

[meethraa]

My favorite portrayal was in Venom. Where Batman is going to get more pills and he see's the blonde kid.

Kid: See, my daddy doesn't like people to see me. That's why I hide. Big as I am, it ain't easy to hide.

*Batman place a hand on his shoulder and smiles.*

Batman: You have no reason to hide. You look okay to me.
Then he slowly moonwalked away.

[colossus34]

My ideal Batman is the earlier seasons of TAS Batman. That was a character that could legitimately be dark, serious, and brooding while at the same time credibly crack a joke, have a sidekick, or show compassion ("Heart of Ice"!!). That said, there was something of a retro sensibility to it that I imagine made it more possible/credible. As the animated Batman entered the modern age with the League, he more or less transformed into BatDick... well on his way to becoming the bitter Bruce portrayed in Beyond.

He could still crack a joke, but it would nearly always be at another's expense or snapping sarcasm. Nor could he be credibly seen as enjoying himself out of his bat-persona or saddled with a sidekick anymore. JLU's Batman is a little too acerbic for my tastes, but tolerable. Full blown BatDickery only works if he ceases to interact with any other heroes, family, or friends.

Well put, i agree

[infoghost]

One of my favorite portrayals recently is from the JLU - Epilogue. It's with the little girl who is controlling things. Someone has to go in and stop her with some device, Batman volunteers, but she tells him she is dying, and he holds her hand while she passes away. (He never intended to kill her, of course.) Then walks out with her in his arms. I know this is a rough description, but that is basically what happened. It was a very moving scene.

That is the Batman I admire.

[stillanerd]

One of my favorite portrayals recently is from the JLU - Epilogue. It's with the little girl who is controlling things. Someone has to go in and stop her with some device, Batman volunteers, but she tells him she is dying, and he holds her hand while she passes away. (He never intended to kill her, of course.) Then walks out with her in his arms. I know this is a rough description, but that is basically what happened. It was a very moving scene.

That is the Batman I admire.

You and Mainline are right on the money. To me, Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's animated Batman was the best portrayal of the character outside of the comics, with Chris Nolan's Batman Begins coming pretty darn close. Heck, even Jack Bauer from 24 is more in line with how Batman should be than his current comic book counterpart. Sure he was brooding, mysterious, tough, and maybe a little self-righteous at times, but he also had something that most of the current crop of Bat-writers seem to forget--compassion for others, especially if they are innocent, the downtrodden, victims, and/or children. The Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue" pretty much summed up what Batman should represent--a man, knowing full well hoe mortal he is, who is still willing to put his life on the line to prevent the same tragedy that happened to him from happening to others.

[The Wayner]

Yep, I like the character. Doesn't bother me a bit. I just go with the flow.

And I'm tired of the "Batdick" term, too. *shrugs*

[Choppa]

I prefer it. I mean what do you expect from a guy whose sole mission in life was born out of tragedy? He wants to control things to make up for his lack of control when his parents died. It's a logical extension of what would come out of such an experience. Naturally he would have a hard time trusting those with extraordinary abilities. I can't understand why everyone wants him to be smiling and hugging Dick. I like Batman because he's flawed. If I wanted a boyscout I would read Superman.

[jaguarshark]

Batman is just a character that needs to be carefully balanced, and it seems like a lot of writers seem to tip it ever so slightly the wrong way. I don't want to constantly read about "BatDick" (if only Dick Grayson had taken over the mantle after IC, at least then the name wouldn't be an insult), but at the same time, I don't want to read about Adam West either. OK, who am I kidding... I do want to read about Adam West, but not every month in my Batman comics.
Like earlier posters have stated, I like a Batman that seems tough and scary to criminals, but is kind and compassionate towards everybody else. I like a Batman who actually enjoys his charity work as Bruce Wayne, but if you steal any of the donations, watch out.
So I guess I want it both ways, to a certain extent. I want him to intimidate criminals, but at the same time, if he runs into a lost kid or something, he looks after them like a caring human being, and when he gets back to the Manor in the morning, he's got a kind word and a sympathetic ear for the rest of his Bat-Family.

[Gargus]

I like him now. He is more of a loaner than he used to be and has himself started to become the dark knight.

I know its only a comic but given everything thats happened and how he is treated he deserves to be mad at the league and want to be left alone and I think its cool the leauge is afraid of him as they should be.

Personally I can see where he is coming from, in his shoes Id probablly do the same thing where I pushed the ones away I couldnt trust.

I like the friction he creates to, cool to see jla have to worry about him and he is just a man.

Its just like a soap opera only good hehe.

[JuggernautRM]

I feel that he is portrayed in comics with to many images of him gritting his teeth, looking bad menacing. Ive grown up imaging batman as the kinda guy who would stay focused and calm in the heat of battle, barely showing expression on his face.

[ryan_catcher]

Bat-Dick must go, and so should the term.

I want a Dark Obsessive Batman contrasted with a light hearted good times Bruce Wayne who happens to be the world's greatest Detective.

Basically Batman Begins, with more Detective work.

[Mia]

At this point, I'm more tired of the term "Batdick" then I am of the actual portrayal of the character.


I agree, whenever I read the term 'Batdick' I always picture the person who uses it as a geek/misfit in high school (or even at work) who railed against the more successful guy at school or work.

Especially since when I think of Batman/Bruce Wayne the first person who pops into my head is Pierce Brosnan as Thomas Crowne. The embodiment of the successful self made man, who worked his ass off to to get where he is. People who use the term 'Batdick' in my eyes are just jealous.

While I don't want to Batman portrayed as an angry psychotic. I like it that he is a keen and serious opperator. In fact I find his taciturn personality one of his endearing traits. Because even though he isn't the biggest people person on earth. At least he fights for others. It shows that you don't have to feel like doing the right thing in order to do it. I say the same about Emma Frost as well.

[Fenix]

Put my vote along the rest who said that the JLU and BTAS version of Batman is the best.

[IamtheRock3]

I like a little Dick

But not to BIG dick..not a Dirk Dickler size one Batdick


but just a little sprinkl of it

more along the lines of batman beyond or JLU

Really if you think about it Batman beyond batman is a HUGE jerk..but it has humanity..where you have this wierd Father son bond with him and Terry.

Also man could crack a Joke and smile every now and then.

[literally exaggerated]

Dark, certainly. Hell, even being a dick is fine. Just so long as he's brilliant (something many recent portrayals omit) and interesting. Arkham Asylum featured a Batman who was basically totally insane, and its one of my all-time favorite Batman stories.

[Xero Kaiser]

People who use the term 'Batdick' in my eyes are just jealous.

Or maybe they just think he's a dick?

I know it's crazy, but I just thought I'd throw it out there

[Guts/Batman]

Or maybe they just think he's a dick?

I know it's crazy, but I just thought I'd throw it out there

Yea, the character is just a dick right now.

I liked it at first, but now it's gotten way out of control. The whole Bat-verse has gone way out of control. At this point, it's just not fun to read Batman anymore (unless you read the minis)

My ideal Batman is what we saw middle to end NML. When he recognized that he couldn't do it alone and he got over his stubborn nature and actually asked for help instead of scheming in one of his caves for the solution to the problem like he did in War Games.

Then Murderer and Fugitive hit and that was the beginning of the avalanche that culminated in War Games and the stone cold, uncaring, uncompassionate, asshole Batman that we have today. He hasn't been at War Games level of Assholishness since War Games but to be honest, there's no way he could go lower than that.

I wouldn't mind it if all stuff Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive after was just retconned out of existance as a bad dream that Alex gave him...

[thelastbatfan]

The entire premise of “Batdick” is ridiculous. I believe the only people that think the Batman is a dick are people that regularly started reading Batman during Joph Loeb’s convoluted run. Batman is smart, Batman is arrogant, and Batman care what other heroes think of him. If you don’t like that, you don’t like Batman. If you want Batman to act differently go watch Super-friends or better yet Adam West. I don’t like brightly colored, super-powered, teenagers who have to get and date and stop the bad guys. So I don’t read the latest Marvel teen drivel. All I here anymore is Batman doesn’t act nice to Superman, Wonder Woman, or whoever. Who cares? Don’t read him. Batman is DC comics’ cash-cow; no other property (other than Marvel’s X-Men) can maintain as many comics as him. Batman is the greatest hero and he knows it, now suck it up and learn to live with it. Batman used to be isolated from the DCU and it was great. I never had to deal with most of the stupid company wide stories. Now Amazo, Zatanna, Chemo, Shazam’s rock, Teen Titans, etc… are all over Gotham. Right now all you fad fans want Bats to act like a Super-Friend and Bat fans like me are dropping titles left and right (most recently Robin) so when all you fad fans leave they won’t have the O’Neil, Dixon, and Moench real Bat fans to fall back on. Sorry if my spelling and grammar suck.

[Guts/Batman]

Paragraphs don't suck, you know...

The reason why current Batman is a dick is because he isn't caring. He is an uncompassionate, uncaring, controlling, paranoid asshole who doesn't see that his lack of feeling, his lack of compassion is what has put him in this hole that he is in recently.

Why is Batman on the wrong side of the law nowadays? Because he was an idiot, paranoid loner who feels the need to control everything in sight.

Why is Batman on the outs within the superhero community? Because he created a uber spy satellite that was the brainchild of a paranoid, controlling loner asshole. It doesn't matter how or why that was started.

Batman is better than this. Batman is a caring, compassionate individual who does what he does for the benefit of the people of Gotham City. He works with the police department instead of undermining the authority of the Comissioner.

There's simply not enough humanity in Batman right now. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to turn into a whiny ball of angst like Conner Kent but an emotionally healthy Batman would be nice.

We who don't like BatDick are not asking for him to become SF Batman (though that is certainly what most people think we want), we want to see a tough, hardass, badass Batman who is also recognizably human emotionally.

[literally exaggerated]

My ideal Batman is essentially a fusion of T'challa (utterly brilliant, 100 steps ahead of everyone else, secretive, ruthless, mildly paranoid, regal, imperious, but also noble, self-sacrificing, dignified and deeply loyal to those who earn it), John Constantine (sardonic, scheming, bitter but also possessed of a wry sense of humor and haunted by the losses around him), Animated Batman (dark, total badass, brusque, unemotional, but far from being totally inhuman), with a splash of DKR Batman (sadistic, borderline psychotic control freak) and Arkham Asylum Batman (totally broken and damaged). Now, every single one of those characters is an asshole, a complete bastard, or both. However, every single one of them has a touch of humanity as well (yes, even DKR Batman was nice to Jim and the Batfamily, and Arkham Asylum Batman was very human, just also nuts). I don't mind that he has issues, even really deep ones. I want him to be ruthless, secretive, conniving, arrogant, controlling, scary and all that. I just also want to see him loyal to those who have earned, occasionally caring, have a sense of humor even if its dark and sardonic. I like that he's possibly borderline crazy, I just don't want it thrown in my face all the time. Make it more subtle, a motivation rather than an everpresent personality trait, so that on those occasions when he does do or say something totally paranoid or crazy, instead of saying "oh, Bruce is just being Bruce again", its actually interesting.

[OverMaster]

This thread's title is just so WRONG...!

[hmnut73]

So many catwoman and Batdick jokes, head is about to explode

[xnef1025]

Batman should be House, with 2 good legs and 2 dead parents. :)

[thelastbatfan]

He works with the police department instead of undermining the authority of the Comissioner.

You can blame that on the Post Denny O'Neil editor Bob (All-Star Batman) Shreck. Taking away Gordon then doing nothing with his replacement. I don't like Akins or hate him; I'm indifferent because they've done nothing with him.

Back to the topic in general, Batman is cold, when was the last time he just stopped to talk to another superhero. He cares; he just doesn’t care if Superman knows he cares. As for that stupid Superman / Batman comic, why is Batman even in that? Batman shouldn’t give a crap about Lex and his Super-friends suit, Supergirl, Bizzarro, or whatever Superman villain shows up in the pages of that rag.

All-Star Batman sucks. Sorry, just wanted to get that out.

[Violently Apathetic]

Batman should be House, with 2 good legs and 2 dead parents. :)

That would be so many levels of awesome.

[jimmyboy]

While I don't want to Batman portrayed as an angry psychotic. I like it that he is a keen and serious opperator. In fact I find his taciturn personality one of his endearing traits. Because even though he isn't the biggest people person on earth. At least he fights for others. It shows that you don't have to feel like doing the right thing in order to do it. I say the same about Emma Frost as well.
I agree. Sometimes, though, Bats is too much of a jerk. He needs to remain the focused genius that he is, but still have a heart toward the innocent, and toward his family and friends. Always going off on Clark or Diana, or any of the JLA, or utterly blowing off Barbara or Dick really does get old if it's the routine, and not the exception.

On the other hand, the jerk aspect of him is also what defines him and makes him unique. He has that contant, incurable wound in his heart from his childhood, which never really lets him rest. His friends know this, and they just accept him as he is. This part of him should never go away, nor should it be minmized, but he should be kind to his friends from time to time, and at least acknowledge their existence and hard work.

[Mia]

The entire premise of “Batdick” is ridiculous. I believe the only people that think the Batman is a dick are people that regularly started reading Batman during Joph Loeb’s convoluted run. Batman is smart, Batman is arrogant, and Batman care what other heroes think of him. If you don’t like that, you don’t like Batman. If you want Batman to act differently go watch Super-friends or better yet Adam West. I don’t like brightly colored, super-powered, teenagers who have to get and date and stop the bad guys. So I don’t read the latest Marvel teen drivel. All I here anymore is Batman doesn’t act nice to Superman, Wonder Woman, or whoever. Who cares? Don’t read him. Batman is DC comics’ cash-cow; no other property (other than Marvel’s X-Men) can maintain as many comics as him. Batman is the greatest hero and he knows it, now suck it up and learn to live with it. Batman used to be isolated from the DCU and it was great. I never had to deal with most of the stupid company wide stories. Now Amazo, Zatanna, Chemo, Shazam’s rock, Teen Titans, etc… are all over Gotham. Right now all you fad fans want Bats to act like a Super-Friend and Bat fans like me are dropping titles left and right (most recently Robin) so when all you fad fans leave they won’t have the O’Neil, Dixon, and Moench real Bat fans to fall back on. Sorry if my spelling and grammar suck.

I agree, I also think the term is used by those who don't understand him. I need Batman to be a hero. Not my best friend.

You need to have some pretty big b@lls to do what Batman does. Something which I think those who refer to him as 'Batdick' completely lack. ;)

[trickster]

I can take BD in small doses. Like when he's had a bad day or week or something. But c'mon, one can only take so much of a surly attitude before they stop caring about a character. If he was an anti-hero, I could understand it, but he's not. He's a SUPERhero.

What, so superheroes should all be cheery? Where did you get that idea?
I read some of the older Batman books, they were ridiculous. That comedian was supposed to be a traumatized for life orphan? The way he was portrayed back then, there was no way in hell I'd take his drama seriously.

[Lubichev]

What, so superheroes should all be cheery? Where did you get that idea?

Hey, I never had that idea. You can be dark and menacing without being surly or dickish. And the LAST thing I want to see is a cheesy Batman.

[Violently Apathetic]

I agree, I also think the term is used by those who don't understand him. I need Batman to be a hero. Not my best friend.

You need to have some pretty big b@lls to do what Batman does. Something which I think those who refer to him as 'Batdick' completely lack. ;)

Oh, I understand him quite a bit, I just don't like reading about unpleasant people and believe it or not, as Batman's been written as of late he's been pretty damn unpleasant. Honestly, you can understand someone's character almost perfectly (not saying I do in this case...) and still not like them. Saying 'you just don't understand him' is a little dismissive and condescending, don't you think? Especially when many of the writers are intentionally writing Batman in a manner that could be considered unpleasant to drive their point about 'the darkening DCU' home.

[Mia]

Oh, I understand him quite a bit, I just don't like reading about unpleasant people and believe it or not, as Batman's been written as of late he's been pretty damn unpleasant. Honestly, you can understand someone's character almost perfectly (not saying I do in this case...) and still not like them. Saying 'you just don't understand him' is a little dismissive and condescending, don't you think? Especially when many of the writers are intentionally writing Batman in a manner that could be considered unpleasant to drive their point about 'the darkening DCU' home.


Call it whatever you want. But Batman has never been a 'Pollyanna' type character and I think that people who expect him to be that, or criticize the character for not being a ray of sunshine, have absolutely no grasp as to who Batman is.

People who want to read about 'pleasant' characters who is always happy and chipper should be reading Superman.

[thelastbatfan]

You need to have some pretty big b@lls to do what Batman does. Something which I think those who refer to him as 'Batdick' completely lack. ;)

That's great.

Call it whatever you want. But Batman has never been a 'Pollyanna' type character and I think that people who expect him to be that, or criticize the character for not being a ray of sunshine, have absolutely no grasp as to who Batman is.

People who want to read about 'pleasant' characters who is always happy and chipper should be reading Superman.

Testify!

If you people want to see how Batman really acts read Action Comics #766. It’s written from a Superman writer’s perspective so you can’t say its pro Batman. Pick it up in the quarter bin the overall story is irreverent.
Just watch how Batman treats Superman, it’s totally accurate. I’ve never read anything else from Joe Kelly be he did a tremendous job. I’d love to see him take over Bats instead of Morrison. Shane McCarthy the interim Detective writers did a great job also. Jeph Loeb thinks you have to put every freaking villain in every issue. I’d like to see him try to write with only one villain. Winnick had a decent grasp of Batman until I lost all respect for him when he brought Jason Todd back.
Rucka and Brubaker know Batman and I suggest fans that started reading during Hush go back and read Rucka’s Detective run, it was great. Even Murderer / Fugitive was alright if you read it in the correct order and not the order it’s marked.

[Jaye]

I’ve never read anything else from Joe Kelly be he did a tremendous job. I’d love to see him take over Bats instead of Morrison.


Please try reading more Joe Kelly stuff before deciding. His JLA was practically unreadable. I felt each issue was randomly missing pages.

Um, there's more, but I really just wanted to say try some more Joe Kelly stuff, there is plenty to be found. If you do enjoy, then great... but that is a pretty big statement to make based on one Action Comics issue.

[Violently Apathetic]

Call it whatever you want. But Batman has never been a 'Pollyanna' type character and I think that people who expect him to be that, or criticize the character for not being a ray of sunshine, have absolutely no grasp as to who Batman is.

I don't think anyone wants him to be Mr. Sunshine, just to not be a DICK. You can be dark and serious without being moody and unlikable. Look at the way he treated Babs and the rest during War Games, that's not dark and serious, that's a jerk. He should trust his little underlings by now and work with them, not treat them like pawns.

People who want to read about 'pleasant' characters who is always happy and chipper should be reading Superman.

Not being unpleasent doesn't mean 'chipper,' it means not being a heel.

[thelastbatfan]

Barbara is the jerk, where the hell does she get off talking to Bats the way she does. She was a C-hero turn now into a B-hero. In my opinion the only people that have the right to talk to Bats like she does is her father, Dick, and Alfred. Alfred because he's Bruce's surrogate father, Dick because he's Bruce's Son, and Jim Gordon because he's the only person Bruce believes is his better.

[Violently Apathetic]

Babs is a jerk? Um, Batman was the one ordering her around and hijacking her computers. Besides, you don't have to earn the right to talk to Bats a certain way (just know that if you mouth off and he doesn't like you he may hurt you) and Babs knows she can speak to him frankly because they respect one another.

Again, I don't want Bats to be super happy, but maybe more like his animated counterpart, still serious, still quiet and dark, but a little more likable and capable of some humor once and a while. Not that its Batman's fault he's been written so badly as of late...

[Maleficentogre]

anyone who has the guts to do it has the rights to talk to bats anyway they want. yeah TAS batman is where the character should get back to. but that babs can't talk to batman that way is just junk logic. batman was a jerk throughout NML he deserves a good tongue lashing every now and then.

[Watchman]

batman was a jerk throughout NML he deserves a good tongue lashing every now and then.
Given the circumstances of the situation, I don't blame him.

[jimmyboy]

T'challa (utterly brilliant, 100 steps ahead of everyone else, secretive, ruthless, mildly paranoid, regal, imperious, but also noble, self-sacrificing, dignified and deeply loyal to those who earn it)

Well...you've just described Batman, at least the Batman that lives in my mind. :cool:
anyone who has the guts to do it has the rights to talk to bats anyway they want. yeah TAS batman is where the character should get back to. but that babs can't talk to batman that way is just junk logic. batman was a jerk throughout NML he deserves a good tongue lashing every now and then.
Agreed. Batman is all about no-nonsense, get-to-the-point. He never smooths things over for anyone, or waters anything down. He's a straight-shooter, and I think he wants the same thing from anyone else. Anyone should talk to Bats in the same way he talks to everyone else. If you're talking bluntly and directly, then you're talking his language. There's no "earning" the right to talk to him bluntly, just the right to work with him. Since when do Alfred and Dick have to talk to him only a certain way? OK, Alfred has his own self-imposed way of talking deferrentialy to him, but he never doesn't say what's on his mind, very bluntly at that. Same for Dick or anyone else, really.

I think Bats would be annoyed by anyone talking in less than a blunt manner.

[Mia]

I don't think anyone wants him to be Mr. Sunshine, just to not be a DICK. You can be dark and serious without being moody and unlikable..



Here’s an example of what I am talking about when I say people don’t understand Batman at all:

“If Clark wanted to he could use his superspeed and squish me into the cement. But I know how he thinks. Even more than the Kryptonite, he’s got one big weakness. Deep down Clark’s essentially a good person…and deep down I’m not”.
-Batman 612



People who want to read about a nice character should be reading about other characters. Not Batman. Batman isn’t nice . He has never been nice, fuzzy and lovable since the last 5 years I have been steadily reading the character. Or even the 15 years previous to that. If you feel a need to read about nice, sweet and jolly characters go read Superman or Wonderwoman. Not Batman. There are enough neutered male heroes in comic books as it is and I don't want to see Batman turn into one of them, because some people have no grasp or appreciation for who he is and why he does what he does.

[Valhalla]

Since Frank Miller recreated Batman he is more of the Dark Loner type.

With what he's been though since Childhood to becoming the Batman doesn't leave much time to develop a pleasant or trusting personality.

Alfred has try as much as he can to keep him dare I say sane. But in the end he is always going him fighting his One Man War. I say it's another way of protecting himself from losing anyone else.

[Agentum]

MillER.....

And yes Batman is more intresting as a dick, the smiling 60s version is not anything i want.

But of course it can be to much, but a little like the Batman in TAS and Batman Beyond, grumpy and suspicios, scheming and consice.

I guess he has some major self guilt that makes him piss off people.
What woud he be if he was like Superman?


BUT it can be to much at times.

[Violently Apathetic]

People who want to read about a nice character should be reading about other characters. Not Batman. Batman isn’t nice . He has never been nice, fuzzy and lovable since the last 5 years I have been steadily reading the character. Or even the 15 years previous to that. If you feel a need to read about nice, sweet and jolly characters go read Superman or Wonderwoman. Not Batman. There are enough neutered male heroes in comic books as it is and I don't want to see Batman turn into one of them, because some people have no grasp or appreciation for who he is and why he does what he does.

I think we're failing to understand one another here, I don't want a jolly Batman, or one that is overly sentimental. I want a Batman who you can tell, despite his bluster and despite his occasional claims to the contrary, is a good person with basic human emotions. Batman may believe himself to be dark and not a good person at his core, but Bruce isn't a particularly self aware character. He has a compassionate side, that's what Alfred, Dick, Clark and even Jason and Selina to a lesser extent, see in him. A man who hurts when he witnesses injustice done upon innocent people and will fight like Hell to prevent it. However the way he's been written as of late makes their trust for him seem unfounded because he's not treating them in the awkward 'I care, but I'm emotionally stunted and can't properly express it' way that he used to, but more like a general directing new recruits that he may march off a cliff if the whim takes him.

If being able to act like a human being once and a while makes you neutered superhero than I guess I prefer neutered superheros.

[Mia]

I think we're failing to understand one another here, I don't want a jolly Batman, or one that is overly sentimental. I want a Batman who you can tell, despite his bluster and despite his occasional claims to the contrary, is a good person with basic human emotions. Batman may believe himself to be dark and not a good person at his core, but Bruce isn't a particularly self aware character. He has a compassionate side, that's what Alfred, Dick, Clark and even Jason and Selina to a lesser extent, see in him. A man who hurts when he witnesses injustice done upon innocent people and will fight like Hell to prevent it. However the way he's been written as of late makes their trust for him seem unfounded because he's not treating them in the awkward 'I care, but I'm emotionally stunted and can't properly express it' way that he used to, but more like a general directing new recruits that he may march off a cliff if the whim takes him. .

No I understand you completely. You assert that you don't want Batman to be jolly. But then go on to criticize him because he isn't jolly. Those are two contradictory statements.

Batman has never been fuzzy, apart from being psychologically scarred he's an old school arristocrat of Scotish extract. He thinks it is his responsibility to be strong .

One of the great things I love about Batman (and Emma Frost) is that even though they are often abrassive. They will do the right thing in a very round about way. That in itself shows compassion. And after all the things that Batman has done for others including putting his life on the line. I find it annoying to see people complain that he isn't Santa Clause

And as for Batman's treatment to his underlings, Dick, Barbara, Tim and Cassie and even Selina, all know that Bruce's bark is worse than his bite. He might be rude and arrogant but they all know that he doesn't mean it. They know he has a good heart. If you want his help he is there to help him. And I laugh at people who run to chastise Batman for his treatment of Barbara. Barbara is one of the most disloyal and neurotic women in comic books. She stabbed Huntress in the back and treated Dick like absolute crap. She's one of the last people around who deserves any kind of sympathy.


Like I said before, people want to read about a sweet and gentle and more 'human' character. There are many such characters in comics books who will satisfy this craving. Superman, Spider-man, heck even Beast in the X-Men will be all the sweet and cuddly you are looking for.

[Violently Apathetic]

No I understand you completely. You assert that you don't want Batman to be jolly. But then go on to criticize him because he isn't jolly. Those are two contradictory statements. .

No, they're not because I'm not criticizing him for failing to be saccharine sweet, I'm criticizing him for being a dick. Why you think acting in a manner that isn't self involved and unpleasant instantly equates to being jolly is beyond my understanding. There is a middle ground, you really don't have to go from one extreme to another. I think he was more balanced a few years ago. Not to say that recent events shouldn't affect his behavior, but I think its been a little extreme. I admit, I don't know the character as well as you probably do, but I am having trouble reconciling the Batman from comics I have from a few years ago to the Batman who does nothing but bark orders and pout that I've been presented with lately.

[Mia]

No, they're not because I'm not criticizing him for failing to be saccharine sweet, I'm criticizing him for being a dick. Why you think acting in a manner that isn't self involved and unpleasant instantly equates to being jolly is beyond my understanding. .

Just for fun, I looked up the dictionairy version of the word 'dick'.
And I came up with this:


Vulgar A person, especially a man, regarded as mean or contemptible.


Well yes that partly defines Batman, yes he is mean and contemptable. Batman has never been (at least socially) a nice man. But if he was the total 'dick' that you are suggesting that he is. Then I don't think he would be putting his life on the line to save others.



There is a middle ground, you really don't have to go from one extreme to another. I think he was more balanced a few years ago. Not to say that recent events shouldn't affect his behavior, but I think its been a little extreme. I admit, I don't know the character as well as you probably do, but I am having trouble reconciling the Batman from comics I have from a few years ago to the Batman who does nothing but bark orders and pout that I've been presented with lately.




Sorry, apart from the atrocious All Star Batman & Robin (and maybe Scott Beatty's run on Gotham Knights) I don't see any evidence of Batman of that, and I have been collecting all the main Bat books for the past 5 years. Batman has always been a brooding and taciturn man. And personally I like it. I find it far more real and authentic than someone who smiles and laughs all the time. Respectfully I don't think you either understand who Batman is, or really the character is not to your taste. If you are looking for a character who isn't 'un-pleasant', then there are several other characters who fit this definition for you to read. Superman, Wonderwoman, Captain America are great places to start.

[Violently Apathetic]

If you are looking for a character who isn't 'un-pleasant', then there are several other characters who fit this definition for you to read. Superman, Wonderwoman, Captain America are great places to start.

But the problem is I DO like Batman, just not how he's been behaving post War Games. I love his supporting cast and his rogues, I'm not going to leave the book just because he's unpleasent, I'm just going to hope that after Crisis he's written in a way that sits better with me than he has been lately. For all I know all it's going to take is the right creative team.

[DCKar2nist]

Didn't mark waid say in a recent interview that Batman post IC will be less dark and the DC Heroes will share a stronger bond, I'm looking for the article I think it was from Newsarama anyone familiar with it?

[Jkid099]

Yeah, pretty much. And Grant Morrison has said in his run on Batman he's pretty much going to be the Batman of the Neal Adams age again. :-)

[DCKar2nist]

From recent events I can't see that happening but I'm sure as hell glad it is, I'm picking up Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, Nightwing, Outsiders & Catwoman next month, OYL seemed like the perfect jumping on point, I think a long over due change from the Frank Miller batman will attract a lot more people.

[thetube]

OYL seemed like the perfect jumping on point, I think a long over due change from the Frank Miller batman will attract a lot more people.

That is how we might get new readers in and bring back some older readers who think that Bats is too nasty and hard to relate to...

[thebestcomicbookreaderever]

yeh i think batman has some very chiseled abs and his biceps are delicious. Plus he has a really fast car and he wears black. im pretty much in love with him

[Ghostman]

Call it whatever you want. But Batman has never been a 'Pollyanna' type character and I think that people who expect him to be that, or criticize the character for not being a ray of sunshine, have absolutely no grasp as to who Batman is.

People who want to read about 'pleasant' characters who is always happy and chipper should be reading Superman.

oh please. seems like you have no grasp on what people actually want from batman characters. and i really wish you'd stop being so condescending and high and mighty. just because they dont agree with your view of the character does NOT mean they have no grasp of who batman is. Why do fans of the BatDick seem to think they know more about batman than everyone else, as if BatDick is the Only way the characters supposed to act when its not?

[Maleficentogre]

I think batman can be as cold as he likes, but I think that he shouldn't have this (I don't want to call it a God complex), Jesus complex thing where he thinks any problem there is can be solved by himself. I hope we get to see him like we saw him during the end of no man's land where he rebuilt his bridges with gordon, oracle, robin, nightwing, azrael, and even huntress. I don't mind batman as a superdick as long as the family can stay together. That's the only thing I miss but I feel that we're getting back to that after crisis. We've been shown glimpses of him turning around.

[DCKar2nist]

I agree with Ghostman, while Batman's never going to inspire people the way Superman does, he doesn't have to be such a dick to the people close to him and especially other crime-fighters (current betrayal/mind-wipe arcs notwithstanding).

There was a Superman comic a while back where Batman said only criminals need fear him. My point is the entire character that is Batman, the darkness, the evil portrayal is all supposed to be directed at the "cowardly and superstitious" criminals. The mistake writers have made recently is they've lost that important distinction.

[Geardaddy]

I have been reading alot of posts and noticed huge amounts of anamosity towards Batman and his attitude. Is there anyone out there that actually likes Batman and his attitude besides me? I'm going to hate to see him go...


I absolutely will hate to see him go. I really enjoyed the fact that we had Supeman and Batman, DC's biggest icons, having completely differing styles to herorics.

[Watery Tart]

I absolutely will hate to see him go. I really enjoyed the fact that we had Supeman and Batman, DC's biggest icons, having completely differing styles to herorics.But you can still have that without making the character completely unsympathetic. Witness the O'Neil/Adams Batman or the Animated Series version.

[SuperSince92]

I think the term BatDick is hilarious. I love the attitude as well, but I also enjoy the portrayal of Batman from The Animated Series. Either one works, so long as still kicks ass on a regular basis.

[Oggar]

Simply put I like Batman, but I like it even more when he possess an almost superhuman ability to be a prick. I like my heroes flawed I detest the golden and silver age.... give me the modern grittier flawed man doing his version of good any day of the week. I love Batman as the ultimate prick.

[Mia]

oh please. seems like you have no grasp on what people actually want from batman characters. and i really wish you'd stop being so condescending and high and mighty. just because they dont agree with your view of the character does NOT mean they have no grasp of who batman is. Why do fans of the BatDick seem to think they know more about batman than everyone else, as if BatDick is the Only way the characters supposed to act when its not?


I think that you're misinterpreting my posts. I never implied that people have no grasp of Batman because their opinions are different from mine. I implied that people have no grasp of the character because they want him to be someone he never was in the first place (at least since the 70's).

I don't like the fact that The Punnisher is a dark homocidal maniac who carries around guns. I don't like it that Wolverine is always scruffy looking.
But I don't scream for the characters to be changed. Because those same(negative) things I don't like about either of them, are the same things that make them unique. And there are legions of fans who actually like them this way. If I don't like those unique qualities, then of course there are other books to read and other characters who will satisfy whatever I am looking.



Batman, at least since the 70's revamp, has always been somewhat dark, arrogant and taciturn--it's part of what makes him unique and more to the point makes him less than perfect. If people are looking for more bright sunny, less dark or in general more positive characters. Then there are a wide array of characters in comic books who will satisfy this taste. Superman, Captain America, Spider-man, Beast, Dr. Mid-Nite (just to name a few).

[Mia]

Simply put I like Batman, but I like it even more when he possess an almost superhuman ability to be a prick. I like my heroes flawed I detest the golden and silver age.... give me the modern grittier flawed man doing his version of good any day of the week. I love Batman as the ultimate prick.


Amen. I completely agree. If Batman was nice on top of being able to do almost anything. Then I would hate the character. And the beautiful thing about Batman is that even though he is rude and arrogant, he will do the right thing in his own way. I find it more real and more interesting.

[Xothermic]

Batman from The Animated Series.

Is the best adaption in my opinion. I just wish more writers would follow suit.

[Grant]

Which Batdick are we talking about?

The moody sullen BatDick in the mainstream DCU or the funny one in All Star Batman and the Miller books.

I kind of prefer the later. Least he has a sense of humour.

[DCKar2nist]

Sorry if this is comming out of left field but I thought Alfred shot someone who learned Batmans identity and he threw him out, why isn't this an issue with them anymore?

[HalWho]

I still like the paranoid batman that we've had for a while. But, what some people are calling paranoid, I'll call prepared. And of course he has a bat attitude. Being in the line of work that he's in, it happens to average people in stressful jobs. Think of the last time you had to deal with a cop. Most of them aren't nice. I like him just the way he is.

[Just_A_Rat]

I prefer the O'Neal/Adams Batman. I don't want him throwing out one-liners, but I think he should treat others with respect when they have earned it. Still be curt with them, maybe, but not look down on everyone he knows. And more focus on the detective side of him. There have been some classic stories written where Batman didn't feel the need to be a constant jerk.

I don't want him to be nice necessarily, but to show a little compassion for others is well within character for him. He is driven because of his own loss to try to ensure no one else ever feels the way he felt. I imagine a lot of what he felt was fear - for him to create that same fear in those who do not deserve it seems like a perversion of the character's values. That said, I don't want him to go out giving candies to kids in his spare time either.

I think it is the very compassion he has for the innocent that drives him to be such a completely relentless "dick" when on the job. Ra's Al Ghul's first appearance gives us a Batman who is arrogant, smart, strong, and at his best. He doesn't go out of his way to be unpleasant, which the current one seems to. There was a good team-up comic in the 80's (I think) where he teamed up with Green Arrow. He actually paid Ollie a compliment. Because the shot Ollie made was that good. And Ollie, though he tried to hide it, was VERY happy, because he got a compliment from the toughest judge of all. Batman can, and in my opinion, should be a hard ass without going out of his way to treat others like crap.

That doesn't mean that he has to go out of his way to be nice, either. And most times, if you ask for his opinion, you won't like the answer, but every now and then, when you do something very well, he will speak up and let you know.

[Mia]

By the way...since we are on this topic. For those of you who find Batman repellant, I would really like to suggest that you pick up The Phantom currently published by Moonstone. Chuck Dixon is doing a two issue arc (the first half -#9 came out last month with the second to follow in March), and a new creative team will follow with Mike Bullock as writer.


The Phantom actually was a precursor to Batman and Messers Fingers and Kane actually heavily ripped him off when they created Batman. The Phantom is just as lethal as Batman but he's not a loner. Actually he has a wife and two kids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom

[Starba]

Was it ever confirmed that OYL Batman will be Bruce Wayne? I was always under the impression it wasn't...which would explain the characterization shift.

[jadrax]

The Phantom actually was a precursor to Batman and Messers Fingers and Kane actually heavily ripped him off when they created Batman. The Phantom is just as lethal as Batman but he's not a loner. Actually he has a wife and two kids.

I dont really see The Phantom and Batman having that much in common, (apart from both being cool.) Ok i think they both came out of the same root, (Zorro,) but the list of diferences between the charicters is pretty long now.

[Grant]

Was it ever confirmed that OYL Batman will be Bruce Wayne? I was always under the impression it wasn't...which would explain the characterization shift.

It's been confirmed Bruce Wayne is still Batman.

[The Batman]

Amen. I completely agree. If Batman was nice on top of being able to do almost anything. Then I would hate the character. And the beautiful thing about Batman is that even though he is rude and arrogant, he will do the right thing in his own way. I find it more real and more interesting.

i couldn't have said this better myself. that and i kind with what Miller said about why Batman is the way he is so that also sort of makes it easier to accept.

[literally exaggerated]

Mia, I have a question for you. What do you think of animated Batman?

Because if you like him, that is essentially what everyone here is suggesting he be. Most definitely not nice. Not jolly in the slightest. Arrogant, no-nonsense, badass, sardonic, secretive, he eventually ends up an embittered old man. But still, slightly more human, or at least more understated. More willing to work on a team when the situation demands it, though still highly independant when it doesn't. Secretive, ruthless, brutal, even mysanthropic. Just not completely 100% in your face I am a huge asshole.

I know you're reluctant to see a grey area here, but this is it. Here's another one. Morrison's JLA Batman. Badass as hell, ridiculously brilliant, driven, no-nonsense, unfriendly and egotistical. In my opinion, one of the finest portrayals of the character ever. And yet he too seemed significantly more human than the current Batman.

Or another. Dark Knight Returns Batman, held up as the pinnacle of grim and gritty. Yet he seeks help from a new robin and, though by no means warm to her, is nonetheless deeply caring. Is ultimately kind to Alfred, and works well with both Jim Gordon and Oliver Queene. And though it eventually comes to blows between them, he and Clark talk earlier in a reasonably friendly matter.

Or another. Killing Joke Batman, in one of the darkest stories in Batman history, he laughs, holds back from brutally beating the joker, teams up with the police, and shows plainly how much he cares about the Gordons.

Or another. Arkham Asylum Batman. In a story in which he is basically insane, one of the darkest Batman stories ever, his weaknesses are worn on his sleeve, and though he doesn't seem nice, his compassion, and also how fundamentally broken he is are both clearly visible, and so he is more sympathetic.

Or another, Batman: Year One. Or another, Batman: the Long Halloween, or Dark Victory, or basically anything prior to now.

Are all of these not "true" portrayals of the character. Because all of them have significantly more human portrayals of Bruce than the one in War Crimes.

[NathanielEssex]

I like the edgy, vicious Batman. I like him grumpy. If they write him like he was in the Grant/Breyfogle days, I wouldn't mind it too much. If they write him like O'Neill in the 70's, I might have to pass on my favorite character's comics for awhile.

That said, I agree that he's too standoffish. But only slightly. I liked him the best pre-War Games. He just shouldn't talk to the Bat-family (and especially Alfred) that way. Otherwise, keep him the same. I always laugh when he talks to the (cheesy) superheroes that way. Not that I don't like the other DC heroes. But I think they're still pretty cheesy. Power does not = cheddar-free. :D

[King Krypton]

1940-1954/1970-1986 is where I hang my hat. I like my Batman heroic, emotional, compassionate, occasionally fun-loving, but always able to put the bad guys into severe panic attacks. The Batman of the animated series was everything I want and expect Batman to be.

Millerbat and the resulting Batjerk in the regular DCU...scrap 'em. They're more akin to the Arkham guys than to what Batman is supposed to be.