Atlas/Seaboard

[scratchie]

Any other fans of Atlas/Seaboard comics here?

http://www.atlasarchives.com/

I just got a bunch of these from Ebay. What fun. I had a couple of these as a kid (one issue of Tiger-Man and one issue of Weird Suspense), but nowadays, whenever I see the titles, I'm reminded of the comic book company that Dan Pussey worked for in Eightball.

[Reptisaurus!]

I have a big 'ol box of Atlas comics.

Well half a big 'ol box. I'm sure I have most of the Atlas comics ever published.

I haven't actually got 'round to reading them, 'cept for some of the Ditko stuff.

I AM kinda curious if any of them are actually worth a look. Opinions?

[Lone Ranger]

I am slowly trying to piece together the entire library. I am probably 80% there, but I haven't put much effort into it lately and I am not sure if I have the desire to do it. I really can't see myself handing over good money for issues of Vicki.

I actually really like a lot of what was borne of the Goodman's vengeance. I think that Ernie Colon's Grim Ghost was a good title, Chaykin's Scorpion was strong and the war titles are quite good. There also some great stuff in the b&w magazines - Thrilling Adventures Stories #2 is as good as anything published by the Big Two, IMHO.

[Lone Ranger]

I posted some thoughts about Atlas-Seaboard on my blog back in September.

Thrilling Adventure (http://seductionoftheindifferent.blogspot.com/2005_09_01_seductionoftheindifferent_archive.html)

[Super Villains INC>]

I've put together a nice VF run of almost all of the run through ebay. Didn't get any magazines yet, though. From what I did actually read, I enjoyed (and I'm probably the only person who did! ) Morlock....it just had that weird 70's sci-fi vibe that I loved in titles like Astonishing Tales with Deathlok, etc....a dystopian 70s view. I enjoy looking at most of them, but the writing is pretty weak. still, a fun, semi-forgotten piece of comic history.

[dan bailey]

the last few months, i've picked up a few copies of titles i remembered with some fondness from back when they came out, like planet of vampires, targett & morlock 2000. wouldn't mind having 'em all ... i bought probably 85 percent of seaboard's output back when those comics were new. (man, i still remember the sheer excitement of coming home from the drugstore after school back in the fall of '74 with the first 3 atlas comics to appear -- phoenix, ironjaw & grim ghost, iirc, though one of 'em may've been wulf the barbarian instead),

oddly enough, the only time i've ever had any comics stolen, someone walked into the house one afternoon in '75 or '76 & made off with a stack of probably 50-100 comics ... most or all of 'em atlas/searboard. not that i had more than a few hundred comics at that time, & not that any of 'em were particularly valuable even then (though probably such future treasures as giant-size x-men 1, x-men 94-up & incredible hulk 181 were tucked in nearby stacks), but whoever it was sure as heck never profited from his crime.

[scratchie]

whoever it was sure as heck never profited from his crime.He's selling them now for $20.00 each on Ebay.

[roach04]

Personally, I loved both IronJaw and Wulf the Barbarian. Ditko's Destructor had at least 2 issues with Wally Wood inks and iirc Archie Goodwin wrote the first 2 as well (no credits like that nowadays eh? Goodwin-Ditko-Wood !). The 2 Chaykin Scorpion issues were good, and John Targitt: Manstalker wasn't awful.

Planet of Vampires - ugh. Even Neal Adams covers couldn't save it.

I think that's all the Atlas I've read - honestly, they only published just over 50 books, so it wouldn't be hard to get all of them, likely in the dollar bin at most stores. Good luck - there is a few worth reading.

[dan bailey]

Planet of Vampires - ugh. Even Neal Adams covers couldn't save it.


ah, but russ heath drew ish #3 (i think). my 2nd-favorite artist ever, behind only john severin.

& the series may well have marked my intro to pat broderick, whom i liked a lot back then.

[Captain Jim]

I had them all once upon a time. I remember that they had so much potential, but really weren't around long enough to get anywhere. I also remember that several of the titles seemed to totally change direction every issue.

[Paradox]

First issue (and maybe two, in some series) of almost all of them are decent to really good. After that? 90% awfullness.

[Graham Vingoe]

there was a brief period in the Uk where it was almost impossible to find Marvel or Dc titles in the newsagents, and Atlas were all that was left. Naturally, I bought them and enjoyed them whilst they lasted.
There was potential there in many cases but there was no way that Atlas would have survived for long, not with the severe direction changes that seemed to appear at every turn. I happen to like Phoenix, but even I think the change of direction between 3 and 4 was extremely jarring for instance.
I wonder, who holds the rights for the characters - maybe there could be a revival at some point. That would be fun. :)

[jam]

Yeah, I managed to pick up a couple of issues at the time but not many.

Fondly remember Chaykin's "Scorpion", the first two issues at least (just Dominic Fortune under another name, right?) but I seem to remember the third issue (without Chaykin) moved to the present day and had a costumed hero. (Terrible!)

Also had the first issue of "Wulf the Barbarian" (which I wouldn't be surprised to find I still have, somewhere). Don't ask me why but I really enjoyed the story.

But here in the UK (Scotland at the time), supplies seemed to dry up very quickly. I also suspect most titles didn't run for very long.

[roach04]

I also remember that several of the titles seemed to totally change direction every issue.

The whole super-hero lined totally changed direction after issue 2 due to a number of factors. And for all of them, issue 3 or 4 was the last issue.
The Comic Book Artist fanzine from TwoMorrows had a really well done issue on Atlas/Seaboard. There was a lengthy interview with Jeff Rovin (Atlas Editor-in-Chief) with some really valuable insights and commentary from several people speculating what went wrong with the Goodman's plan. Rumours still swirl that part of Martin's agreement to sell Marvel included a promise that his son Chip would remain an editorial higher-up at Marvel. And, when Chip got fired, there was a strong belief that Martin founded Atlas/Seaboard to seek revenge on the company he founded canning his kid. I know from talking to Howard Chaykin that Seaboard was paying at least twice what either Marvel or DC was to lure talent, returning artwork, all kinds of "crazy" ideas. In many regards, they did a lot of good for the industry I guess.

After the comics line (and I think there was a magazine line run by, of all folks, Larry Lieber!) died, Seaboard went back to more "mainstream" magazine publishing - stuff like "Swank". ;)

[scratchie]

One thing I'm curious about is the extremely short runs of all their titles. It reminds me of the discussion we had recently about DC's infamous Man-Bat title, which only ran for two issues. In that case, there's virtually no way the managers could have had any idea how the comic was selling when they made the decision to cancel it.

The situation with Atlas/Seaboard isn't much better, with a couple of titles selling four issues, and most of them appearing for a maximum of three. Call me naive, but I would think that if you were starting your own periodicals company, you would budget it so that you had enough time to get your name out there. At least six months, if not more. In my case, the first issues of Atlas I ever saw were the last issues of their respective titles, so even if I wanted to keep buying them, I couldn't.

Obviously I wasn't privy to the business decisions at the time, so it's always possible that there were unexpected expenses, yadda yadda yadda, but let's face it, Martin Goodman was not exactly a newcomer in the comics business. It seems bizarre that such an experienced businessman would launch a business that couldn't even sustain itself for half a year. Seems to me that maybe half the story hasn't yet been told.

[Lone Ranger]

Obviously I wasn't privy to the business decisions at the time, so it's always possible that there were unexpected expenses, yadda yadda yadda, but let's face it, Martin Goodman was not exactly a newcomer in the comics business. It seems bizarre that such an experienced businessman would launch a business that couldn't even sustain itself for half a year. Seems to me that maybe half the story hasn't yet been told.

I can't recall all of the details from the Comic Book Artist issue (Comic Book Marketplace also had a nice issue dedicated to Atlas/Seaboard), but I think Goodman & Co. were caught a bit by surprise by how tough it was to distribute their books. The Big Two did a good job at keeping the fledgling company's books off the racks.

I believe this led to cash flow problems, which led to creators not getting paid promptly (if at all) and this led to the major talent shakeups on the various book.

IIRC, Jeff Rovin quit and Larry Lieber was left holding the bag for the entire line and was told to make the books much more Marvelesque. That's where you see the major changes to characters like Scorpion and Phoenix.

[scratchie]

I can't recall all of the details from the Comic Book Artist issue (Comic Book Marketplace also had a nice issue dedicated to Atlas/Seaboard), but I think Goodman & Co. were caught a bit by surprise by how tough it was to distribute their books. The Big Two did a good job at keeping the fledgling company's books off the racks.Fascinating. Twas ever thus. The same thing has happened to a lot of independent record companies.

[Lone Ranger]

Fondly remember Chaykin's "Scorpion", the first two issues at least (just Dominic Fortune under another name, right?) but I seem to remember the third issue (without Chaykin) moved to the present day and had a costumed hero. (Terrible!)


Yup - it's terrible.

I was speaking with Canadian artist Jim Craig about this book a couple of years ago at a convention and he says that he really got a lot of grief for working on this issue. If memory serves, Chaykin thought there was some tampering going on while he was still on the book (was Alex Toth involved) and arguments ensued.

Craig was just a young guy happy to have some work and didn't really appreciate the maelstrom he'd entered.

As for Scorpion - he really is the prototype for so many of Chaykin's characters (Fortune, Monarch Starstalker - there's even a bit of the Scorpion in American Flagg).

Another Atlas-Seaboard character who lived on was the Demon Hunter - who morphed into Marvel Devil Slayer.

If you ever want to buy a comic with the origin of Spider-Man for a very low price - let me recommend Destructor #1. It even has the classic Ditko panel of the young hero standing over a grave.

[scratchie]

Can I just add that I crack up whenever I consider the name "Sgt. Hawk"?

Pure stroke of genius.

[roach04]

One thing I'm curious about is the extremely short runs of all their titles. It reminds me of the discussion we had recently about DC's infamous Man-Bat title, which only ran for two issues. In that case, there's virtually no way the managers could have had any idea how the comic was selling when they made the decision to cancel it.

I hear ya. As others have answered, the distribution I believe was a big part of it. And hell, Neal Adams got Green Lantern and the X-Men cancelled because sales weren't good enough.

...except that when the numbers really came in, it turned out he'd raised sales considerably on both those titles but it was too late to save them! Ah, to be a publisher in days gone by.

[scratchie]

Following Up Myself Dept.: http://www.atlasarchives.com/This website actually has a lot of good stuff under "Articles" that answered a lot of my questions, once I had time to read it.

It's got an article from Comic Book Artist by Jon B. Cooke, one from The Comics Journal by Jeff Rovin (one of Atlas's original editors), one from Comic Book Marketplace by J.C. Vaughn, one from Amazing Heroes by Ken Jones and a contemporary news story from the Philadelphia Daily News. Lots of good reading there.

The article by Rovin, one who was there, is quite interesting, although Cooke's article helps put it in perspective.

Some major points that I took away:

If I had thought about it for a few minutes, I probably would have realized that 1-4 issues of each magazine didn't come out all at once. The issues were spread out over about a year, which makes a lot more sense in terms of the overall time frame.

The main problems with the company seemed to be a disconnect between the editors and management. From Rovin's point of view, he wanted the company to establish its own identity, while Goodman just wanted to copy whatever Marvel had done or was doing. This resulted in frequent overriding of editorial decisions, especially on art and artists (e.g., Steve Ditko replaced Ernie Colon on Tiger-Man to make the character more like Spider-Man).

While the company policy was to give artists and writers ownership of their work, and to return artwork, it seems that Goodman treated the talent terribly on a personal level, and when the company closed down, all of the artwork was apparently "stolen" anyway.

Marvel recognized that the company was little threat, and had no problem allowing its talent to free-lance at Atlas, but Carmine Infantino (thread merge!) stymied their attempt to hire DC's artists by offering a bonus plan to anyone whose work was currently appearing exclusively in DC publications.

That said, it sounds like Goodman was completely out of touch with the younger generation of artists anyway (Adams, Grell, et al), and was more interested in copying the Marvel style. The disconnect between the creative people and the business people surely did far more to doom Atlas than not being able to hire certain artists.

My first wave of Atlas books from Ebay has arrived, and I hope to post a review of Phoenix #1 (written and edited by Jeff Rovin) before too long.

[Cash Lone]

I used to buy all the Atlas comics I could from the quarter bin at a comic shop in Mich. The Grim Ghost was my favorite - Thanks to Scratchie for providing that link.

[T GUy]

Dan Bailey: i bought probably 85 percent of seaboard's output back when those comics were new. (man, i still remember the sheer excitement of coming home from the drugstore after school back in the fall of '74 with the first 3 atlas comics to appear -- phoenix, ironjaw & grim ghost, iirc, though one of 'em may've been wulf the barbarian instead)

I too got most of these when they came out, and my memory is that Phoenix, Ironjaw & the Grim Ghost were the first three.

Super Villains Inc>: I enjoyed (and I'm probably the only person who did! ) Morlock

No, there were at least two of us.

[MWGallaher]

Three...that remains my favorite of the Atlas books...and it was my favorite at the time, too!