Top ten deaths in comic book history?

[shaxper]

Few things rock the comic book world more than a well executed death. This is not to say that the best comic stories out there are necessarily death-related, but rather that tastefully done deaths often have a large impact upon the title and its audience.

So, what would you consider to be the ten most significent and/ or impactful deaths in comic book history? Interpret the question as you please. I choose to include characters that later returned because that couldn't detract from the initial impact of their deaths. A friend of mine chose to include Ben Parker, whose death I considered to be insignificant in and of itself; important only because it was a crucial part of a larger origin story.

At any rate, here's my top ten (which I'll undoubtedly revise as this thread progresses):

1. Phoenix (Uncanny X-Men #137): Though not necessarily the best done, it was the first death of a major hero that I can easily recall, and had long term consequences for the title up to ten years later, when they made the hasty decision to revive her and retcon the death. Nearly thirty years later, the story is still well known and still casts a shadow on current events in the X titles.

2. Gwen Stacey (Amazing Spider-Man #121): A totally unexpected death (even with the cover that promised someone would die) that shocked America by teaching us that even the most beloved of superheroes was capable of failing at a crucial moment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was also the first death of a major character to occur in the superhero genre.

3. Green Goblin I (Amazing Spider-Man #122): One issue after the death of Gwen, Spider-Man's greatest nemesis bit the big one during a badly timed accident mid-combat. Whoever heard of arch villains kicking the bucket? Everyone expected the Goblin to stick around for as long as Spidey would.

4. Superman (Superman vol. 2 #75): Though the hype was obnoxious and we all knew he was coming back, this was an amazingly well executed story with a fantastically dramatic end for the world's oldest and most famous superhero. The sheer fact that they did this (and did it with taste) makes this issue worth mentioning. Of course, the Return of Superman stuff was abyssmal.

5. Flash II (Crisis on Infinite Earths #8): The first time a core DC Superhero bit the big one, and also one of the few deaths in comic book history that managed to last (at least thus far). The Flash was the bedrock of the Silver Age DC revival, and it took guts to kill him off and replace him with someone that was considered less qualified at the time. Most of all, who could forget the way Barry Allen went out? Though I never remember why it was that he had to run faster than he'd ever run before, I clearly remember the visuals: his haunted, delusional eyes, his evaporating face turning to nothing but skull and, later, nothing. I even remember the use of panels that just made me feel dizzy and sick. What a way to go.

6. Robin II (Batman #427-428): Granted, he wasn't the original Robin, but the very idea of Batman's legendary young ward biting the big one was astonishing. Naturally, I always assumed that Batman would always be there to save Robin at the last moment, either dying instead or at least dying with him. Though Batman's failure to save Jason Todd was understandable, it was none the less mind-blowing. Of course, the whole hotline voting system detracted from the experience to a large degree, but the impact of the story (in and of itself) was jaw dropping for me. The way in which the Joker savagely beat Jason and left him to die restored the Joker to the sadistic greatness he hadn't enjoyed since the early Golden Age. Of course, this entire experience transformed the Batman for years to come and enabled writers to paint him in a darker, more self-destructive light.

7. Captain Marvel (Marvel Graphic Novel #1): A well executed farewell. Also shocking to watch a character slowly and unbearably die of cancer (a real world death) and long for a superhero's death in the heat of battle. It was remarkable to watch what Captain Marvel's deterioration did to his allies and enemies, alike. Thanos's reaction probably intrigued me the most.

8. Thunderbird (Uncanny X-Men #95): The new team had only formed two issues earlier and neither the readers nor the X-Men had gotten to know Thunderbird well yet, but I think all of that added to the severity of his death. The fact that a supposedly core character could die right at the onset made the dangers the X-Men went on to face seem to have higher stakes. That a character could die so meaninglessly and without a clear motivation/ explanation just seemed to make the X-Men's world seem more cruel, random, and threatening. It also cast a darker, more mature light over the genesis of the new team, setting the tone for the more dramatic, dark stories that would soon follow.

9. Terra I (Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #4): Initially, Terra was supposed to be the lovable, yet rough around the edges problem teen that the Titans would take in and transform into a noble heroine. Wolfman and Perez later revealed that Terra was actually a traitor, working with the Terminator to take the Titans down, but she was clearly conflicted about this. The Titans were such a goody goody, lovey dovey team that we were certain Terra would change her mind. When the moment finally came at the climax of the Judas Contract, Terra not only shocked us by not changing her mind, she went insane and destroyed herself in the process, much to the surprise of us all. Even the Titans couldn't change her. That final haunted moment, with Gar Logan weeping at the site of her death, still moves me to this day.

10. Spiderwoman (Spiderwoman #50): It's been a long time since I read this (I no longer own it), but I remember the sheer shock I experienced at watching a main character be erased from existence (not simply killed) so that no one she'd ever met in her life would recall knowing her. I'm still waiting for them to acknowledge the events of this issue in current continuity. If there were ever a character killed permanantly, and without the opportunity for resurrection, it was Jessica Drew. So why is she alive again?

[prince hal]

Some good choices there, Shax. I think I'd throw Supergirl and Flash into the mix, too.

[shaxper]

Yeah, I just edited in Barry Allen and then saw your reply. Never cared much about Supergirl, but you may have something there.

Incidentally, is your user name a reference to Henry V? It's one of my favorite plays.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I notice that all of your examples were from Marvel and DC comics. To balance that, here are a few more deaths that I'd add to the list:

1) Andy Lippincott, from Doonesbury-- the groundbreaking gay character with AIDS.

2) Spoilers for Cyborg 009, for John's benefit:

Cyborg 009 and Cyborg 002, in volume 10 of Shotaro Ishinomori's Cyborg 009-- I've heard that their death scene is one of the greatest moments in all of manga. As happened with Sherlock Holmes, Ishinomori had to resurrect these characters because of immense fan pressure.

3. Speedy, in The Death of Speedy-- the actual death scene was kind of anticlimactic and occurred off-panel, but the following page, where his ghost visits Esther, 'Litos and Izzy, is one of my favorite pages in any comic.

[Paul Newell]

One that will probably make very few lists but should always be included is Menthor from the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents.

He gets captured by the Agents longtime foes, the Subterraneans, to be used as bait. The T-Agents will be lured into a death trap in the subterranean fortress. Rather than let that happen, Menthor attempts to get his helmet, which gives him telepathic powers, but is shot and wounded. The T-Agents break into the fortress, but rather than let his fellow agents die, Menthor staggers forward, getting shot several times in the process, and straight into the trap, setting it off and instantly killing him in full view of the other Agents.

The shocked Agents are speechless, then go berserk absolutely trashing the Subterraneans, without uttering one word. Once the villains are all dead, Dynamo picks up the body of Menthor and they all trail out.

Beautifully written and rendered by Wally Wood.

[MichikoS]

What? Everyone knows there is no permanent death in comic books! Silly.

Michi

[spoon_jenkins]

The death of Guardian in Alpha Flight #12 was really well-executed. It's strange because he didn't have a long history at that point to make much of an emotional impact with fans. But the way that he dies is just so shocking and memorable to me.

[Captain Jim]

To this day, I still think that the original "Death of Superman" story (by Jerry Siegal, I think) is one of the most moving comics I've ever read and the #1 death story in my book (even if it was an "imaginary story").

[Reptisaurus!]

1. The Death of Nah. I'll let you read it for yourself in Peter Bagge's Hate. Felt like a gut-punch, and totally unexpected. I still remember exactly where I was when I read it for the first time, like it was JFK or someone.

# 2. Wanda, from the Gaiman version of Sandman. This one just makes me bawl like a baby, every time I read it. Gaiman riffs on sexual identity and the transformation to adulthood and packs in serious emotional punch.

# 3. Ferro Lad. Didn't he start the "Sacraficicial Heroes" trend?

# 4. The Scientist (Did he even HAVE a name) from "This Man, This Monster" in Fantastic Four 51. I tear up a little every time I read this one, too.

[Kirayoshi]

In no particular order:

The original Doom Patrol, who allowed themselves to be killed by the Brotherhood of Evil to protect a small fishing village. For a long time, they were the original 'dead is dead' team.

The Flash. Although whether he truly died or passed on into the Speed Force is still up for grabs.

Phoenix(first time). 'Nuff said.

Jean DeWolff. One of the best 'senseless death' stories in Marvel history.

Charlie, a friend of Logan's from back in the day, in the Spider-Man/Wolverine one-shot. Another senseless death, this time a suicide, one that really shook up Spider-Man.

Skurge, the Executioner, from Simonson's run on Thor. "When asked of Skurge, they answer, He stood on the bridge of Naflgar. And that's all that needs to be said."

Illyana Rasputin. Easily the saddest death in recent comics.

Carmen Pryde, Kitty's dad. Another innocent who was caught in the crossfire.

Gwen Stacy. Spider-Man's world was never quite as light-hearted after then.

Captain Mar-Vell. How many heroes die of cancer?

[the goddamn batman]

I don't remember now if anyone said it yet, if not...

Thomas & Martha Wayne, (don't remember first names here) The Graysons, The Todd's (if they are dead, i can't remember anymore)

Jason Todd sure was, until... :mad: ...he came back. I think DKR death of Jason still counts though. Frank did it first, he did it better, never changed it, or retconed it, and the aftermath from that books tone(in part from jasons death) changed comics forever. Even if you hate it thats pretty substantial, in the comic, and to comics in general!

I agree with most of the others stated, Gwen Stacey is right up there too. What about Uncle Ben, and Captain Stacey? Didn't aunt May die too?


Now about, Thunderbird, I disagree, he was a minor player, for a short period of time. If he counts, then so do Barbra Ketch from the 90's Ghost Rider, and Jonny Blazes (from the original) adoptive parents! So does everybody! Now thats getting kinda carried away. It's like the lame x-men cartoon. Remember MORPH?!? he was in like half an episode, then died! He was written to die, therefor not very important, at least not concistent with the rest of the list.

i'm gonna sit on this and make a top ten soon. just wanted to ponder on it first.

[Cherokee Jack]

i don't have a list, but the first one that comes to mind for me is Pam Hawley.

[matewan1990]

1. Captain Marvel - Jim Starlin channeled the horror of a cancer death in this beautiful story.
2. Flash - Barry Allen lived a hero and died a hero.
3. Phoenix - This one was so good, it should have been left alone.
4. Doom Patrol - They showed what true heroes would do to save lives, no matter how few that were in danger.
5. Jean DeWolff - Did anyone see this coming? In my mind, this is Peter David's greatest story.
6. Supergirl - We knew it was coming, but did we ever think it'd be so touching?
7. Sue Dibny - Brad Meltzer made people care about Sue through her death. Meltzer gave her more characterization than any of the previous writers had ever given her.
8. Gwen Stacy - This forever changed Spider-Man and his world.
9. Jason Todd - Yeah, this one was big, despite the fact that Winick brought him back.
10. Blue Beetle - He was starring in some great Giffen-written stories, then he was dead. That sucks. Now, some kid in a Power Rangers suit is taking his place. RIP Ted Kord.
And, here are some other good deaths:
11. The Crime Sindicate of Earth 3 in Crisis - This is one of the best deaths in comics. Ever.
12. Thunderbird — He'd just got started and then he was dead.
13. Ferro Lad - I read these stories in the 1970s from some old back issues I'd picked up and I liked the character and then they killed him. Talk about an emotional roller coaster ride.
14. Spider-Woman - I loved Brian Postman's art on this series as it had taken a darker turn from the earlier stories. I liked Daddy Longlegs and Gypsy Moth and then, they killed Spider-Woman. Of course, they brought her back not long after, but it was a good death with her walking off into Heaven at the end.
15. Jarella in Incredible Hulk — Hulk finds love. Hulk happy. Hulk's love dies. Hulk smash because Hulk need someone to hold him now.

[Roquefort Raider]

I would add Aunt May, in Amazing Spider-Man #400.

And yes, she's dead. All that came after must be a Beyonder-induced bad dream.

[shaxper]

# 3. Ferro Lad. Didn't he start the "Sacraficicial Heroes" trend?



Good call. I was just thinking about Ferro Lad this morning, in fact. I think this may have been the biggest moment in Jim Shooter's work on the Legion.


I thought about Sue Dibney, but decided that I didn't really regard her death as being all that big. No one was really talking about it half as much as they were talking about Batman and mindwipes. Sue's death got the largest reaction within the comic book universe, but not outside of it. At least, that's my thought on the matter.

[Gingold]

1. Gwen Stacy
2. Phoenix
3. Ferro Lad
4. Jean DeWolf
5. Barry Allen
6. Mar-Vell
7. Betty Banner
8. Ted Knight
9. Larry Lance
10. Terra

[scratchie]

1. The Death of Nah. I'll let you read it for yourself in Peter Bagge's Hate. Felt like a gut-punch, and totally unexpected. I still remember exactly where I was when I read it for the first time, like it was JFK or someone. Good call. That was truly shocking (at a point when the book seemed to have lost a little of its spark) as well as seeming like a "reasonable" ending for that character.

[DDM]

10. Spiderwoman (Spiderwoman #50): It's been a long time since I read this (I no longer own it), but I remember the sheer shock I experienced at watching a main character be erased from existence (not simply killed) so that no one she'd ever met in her life would recall knowing her. I'm still waiting for them to acknowledge the events of this issue in current continuity. If there were ever a character killed permanantly, and without the opportunity for resurrection, it was Jessica Drew. So why is she alive again?

Jessica Drew's story was never really done. Spider-Woman's story was resolved in Avengers #240-241 when Tigra, Dr. Strange, Shroud, & the Avengers battled Morgan Le Faye. Dr. Strange had to disconnect Jessica's powers because Mogan had set up an interference with Jessica's natural bio-electric mechanism which was the source for her "venom blasts." With most of her powers removed, Jessica resumed her role as detective in San Francisco, California.

The story is written by Roger Stern (with Ann Nocenti).

[Cei-U!]

One of the earliest would have to be Meatball in Daredevil Comics #15. He was one of the Little Wise Guys, yet another comic book reinvention of the Dead End Kids. Poor kid died of exposure, if memory serves. That must've blown a few little minds back then.

The death of Junior Juniper in Sgt. Fury #4 immediately notified the audience that anyone could go. Using the Howlers in modern day SHIELD stories vitiated the series of much of its dramatic immediacy.

The little girl in Shazam: Power of Hope. Quiet. Dignified. Heartbreaking.

Bucky's death freed Captain America of his conceptual deadwood and gave him a powerful new motivation. The lack of costumed kid sidekicks in the Marvel Universe was a welcome step away from the genre's corniest stereotypes.

And although it's never been shown on panel, an entire line of comics was built on the death of a little boy named Casper.

More as I think of them.

Cei-U!
I summon the morbidity!

[dan bailey]

lee baker's death in capt savage #11 was almost certainly the first comic-book death i ever encountered, at the tender age of 9. & since it wasn't a superhero title (or for that matter a non-superhero title that many people cared about, as witness its cancellation 8 issues later), he stayed dead!

obviously, it echoed junior juniper's death 6 or 7 years earlier, but i didn't read that comic till a year or so ago.

[dan bailey]

has anyone mentioned proty I's noble sacrifice at the end of the death of lightning lad saga? *choke*

& while it was an imaginary story (insert obligatory "aren't they all?" reference here), i've got to make note of krypto's demise in whatever happened to the man of tomorrow. of course, a whole bunch of superman's human friends died, too, but it's the animal deaths that get me every time ...

[Sir Tim Drake]

And although it's never been shown on panel, an entire line of comics was built on the death of a little boy named Caspar.

Was there ever an explanation of how Casper died?

(I like Lisa Simpson's theory that Casper is the ghost of Richie Rich. He realized how hollow the pursuit of money is and took his own life.)

[Jolly Mon]

No one has mentioned the original Swordsman's death in GS Avengers #2. The loser who finally makes good and saves the Avengers (with Hawkeye), then gives up his life to save the woman who dumped him like yesterday's garbage. "I guess I'm just one of those people who doesn't matter." "Every Avenger matters...every one." (paraphrased, of course)

[Roquefort Raider]

has anyone mentioned proty I's noble sacrifice at the end of the death of lightning lad saga? *choke*


That's because he didn't really die: his soul was instead transfered to Lightning Lad's body, thus reanimating it! Subsequently, Proty got to play the role of LL for years and got to bang Saturn Girl.

I think I'm gonna go be sick, now.

[Jolly Mon]

That's because he didn't really die: his soul was instead transfered to Lightning Lad's body, thus reanimating it! Subsequently, Proty got to play the role of LL for years and got to bang Saturn Girl.

I think I'm gonna go be sick, now.

Stupidest....retcon....ever

[shaxper]

Jessica Drew's story was never really done. Spider-Woman's story was resolved in Avengers #240-241 when Tigra, Dr. Strange, Shroud, & the Avengers battled Morgan Le Faye. Dr. Strange had to disconnect Jessica's powers because Mogan had set up an interference with Jessica's natural bio-electric mechanism which was the source for her "venom blasts." With most of her powers removed, Jessica resumed her role as detective in San Francisco, California.

The story is written by Roger Stern (with Ann Nocenti).


But how did that bring her back from being erased from history by Morgan Le Faye? Unless I've gone senile, that was how the Spider-Woman series ended in #50.

[Mike Kuypers]

has anyone mentioned proty I's noble sacrifice at the end of the death of lightning lad saga? *choke*

& while it was an imaginary story (insert obligatory "aren't they all?" reference here), i've got to make note of krypto's demise in whatever happened to the man of tomorrow. of course, a whole bunch of superman's human friends died, too, but it's the animal deaths that get me every time ...

If you're going to include imaginary deaths then you have to include Robin from "Robin Dies At Dawn."

[DDM]

But how did that bring her back from being erased from history by Morgan Le Faye? Unless I've gone senile, that was how the Spider-Woman series ended in #50.

Tigra remembers Jessica Drew; she is the link for the Avengers, Dr. Strange, & Shroud. Strange helped the Avengers remember Jessica Drew by cancelling Morgan's spell. The real end of Spider-Woman is chronicled in The Avengers #240-241.

[shaxper]

Tigra remembers Jessica Drew; she is the link for the Avengers, Dr. Strange, & Shroud. Strange helped the Avengers remember Jessica Drew by cancelling Morgan's spell. The real end of Spider-Woman is chronicled in The Avengers #240-241.

Interesting. But how did Tigra remember her if Morgan made it so that Jessica never existed in the first place?

[DDM]

Interesting. But how did Tigra remember her if Morgan made it so that Jessica never existed in the first place?

It's not mentioned. Morgan's spell was powerful, but, I suppose, it could be theorized due to Greer's link with the mystical Cat People made her immune to Morgan's spell.

[dan bailey]

That's because he didn't really die: his soul was instead transfered to Lightning Lad's body, thus reanimating it! Subsequently, Proty got to play the role of LL for years and got to bang Saturn Girl.

I think I'm gonna go be sick, now.

boy, the things i (luckily) missed by ignoring comics for 25 years ...

what idiot was responsible for that (the proty-lightning lad retcon, that is, not my quarter-century absence from comicdom)?

[DDM]

boy, the things i (luckily) missed by ignoring comics for 25 years ...

what idiot was responsible for that (the proty-lightning lad retcon, that is, not my quarter-century absence from comicdom)?

The Legion of the Super-Heroes have had several reboots since 1985's Crisis On Infinite Earths wiped out Superboy from their history.

[TheHistorian]

I would add to the list - every lame villain that Scourge wiped from the Marvel Universe in the mid 80s. (thank you Mark Gruenwald)

Regarding Thunderbird, I had heard, and this may be just one person's pet theory, that the powers that be quickly realized that he was redundant - Wolverine could do everything he did and had lots of pointy bits too. So they axed him. Or maybe he was created to die quickly. Don't know.

[Cei-U!]

Or maybe [Thunderbird] was created to die quickly. Don't know.

That seems to be the case, if I'm remembering old interviews with Wein, Claremont and Cockrum correctly. Why didn't I hang on to my old fanzines? :mad:

Cei-U!
I summon the research deficit!

[InfoBroker]

Regarding Thunderbird...

The sacrifices I'm willing to endure for my fellow Classic Comics Companions. I had to switch to and power up another computer so I could retrieve the file, but here ya go Historian, direct from the Len Wein Chat here at CBR...

The ANSWER!

Warning! Use your inverted logic glasses and read this section from bottom to top, it will make a whole lot better sense that way.


[Inverted Glasses On Mode]

[10:30 PM] Brian Cronin (pulls Dave Cockrum quote from somewhere): Kind of at the last minute. The way this all came about was that when we were first planning out that first issue, we decided what we were going to do was have it be an aptitude test or an entrance exam or something like that. They would be sent off to rescue the original X-Men, but the original X-Men would not actually be in any danger. We figured if it's an entrance exam, theoretically, there are people who are going to flunk as well as people who pass, and so we had Banshee and Sunfire, and we were going to flunk 'em. Then we thought, well, that doesn't seem fair, we ought to have a new guy to flunk too, a new guy who's unsuitable. So that was what Thunderbird was for, to be a flunker. He was unsuitable because he was anti-social. Hah! As if Wolverine's not anti-social. But at the last minute- well, I liked Banshee and we all liked Thunderbird, so we figured to hell with it. It turned out not to be a test anyway. So we had Sunfire, who nobody much liked, go off in a huff, and we kept Banshee and we kept Thunderbird. But then we didn't know what to do with Thunderbird because we never thought him out. It was easier to kill him off than to think him out."
[10:30 PM] moorefan: Paris Cullins. . . now that's a name I haven't heard in a while; what's he doing now?
Lex Leaves Room
[10:30 PM] Brandon Hanvey: Most awesome link ever http://www.wackyhijinx.com/maps/cbia/
[10:29 PM] Messchird: Hi, everybody, I'll just read.
[10:29 PM] Ouzo Man: Hey Messchird.
-----
Messchird Joins Room
[10:29 PM] Brian Cronin: That's why I ask
[10:28 PM] Brian Cronin: This is according to Cockrum
[10:28 PM] Len Wein: Never changed my mind that I remember.
[10:28 PM] Brandon Hanvey: Is Brian geeking out?
[10:28 PM] Len Wein: moorefan: It was new but unfulfilling. Gil missed so many important parts of the first issue, I had to have it redrawn by Paris Cullins.
[10:28 PM] Stephane Garrelie: bye Sabrina, I'll wait for the comic or movie adaptation
[10:28 PM] Brian Cronin: Right, but wasn't the twist that you created him to die, changed your mind, then killed him later anyways?
[10:27 PM] Len Wein: All: Y'know, I created Thunderbird for the specific purpose of killing him off. It has never been done before and we figured, this way nobody will ever be able to predict what we do next.

[/Inverted glasses mode]


So there ya go Hist, the facts directly from Len Wein himself, and indirectly from Dave Cockrum. At least how they remember them anyway.

-jb the transcribing ib-

[Bicycle-Repairman]

I nominate the death of Hartigan in Sin City: That Yellow Bastard.

[thehod]

I'd go for the death of Mr Miracle in the Giffen Justice League books.

The fact that it turned out to be a robot is beside the point.

It was a nice little moment of solemity amongst the laughs.

[Paul Newell]

Stupidest....retcon....ever

Even stupider than Shvaughn Erin being a man?

[Paul Newell]

boy, the things i (luckily) missed by ignoring comics for 25 years ...

what idiot was responsible for that (the proty-lightning lad retcon, that is, not my quarter-century absence from comicdom)?
Tom and Mary Bierbaum introduced it in LOSH V4 Annual #3. It was an old fan speculation from the 70's.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Tom and Mary Bierbaum introduced it in LOSH V4 Annual #3. It was an old fan speculation from the 70's.

I thought it was either Keith or Tom who had originally come up with the idea, back in the '70s. Am I remembering incorrectly?

[Roquefort Raider]

I thought it was either Keith or Tom who had originally come up with the idea, back in the '70s. Am I remembering incorrectly?

I don't know... but it's certainly one of the worst ideas the Giffen-Bierbaums had during their run. Erin being a transsexual was also pretty silly; blowing up the moon wasn't all that great, and blowing up Earth just begged for a new reboot.

All that being said, the TMK legion remains my favorite. The good stuff just outweighed the bad in my book!

That run was also rich in untimely demises, which fits the spirit of this thread. I liked Sun Boy's tragic end, and the death of Blok was a real shocker. (Since when do villains just walk up to heroes and blow them away? Without even a "vengence is mine" speech?)

[Rob Allen]

And although it's never been shown on panel, an entire line of comics was built on the death of a little boy named Casper.

Didn't someone publish a parody called "Kaspar the Dead Baby"? I seem to recall Marv Wolfman's name being associated with that.

[prince hal]

Incidentally, is your user name a reference to Henry V? It's one of my favorite plays.

Yes indeed! It's one of miy favorites, too. Have taught it, read it, seen it many times. (Particularly relevant today, what with a certain leader "busying giddy minds with foreign quarrels," in the words of Hal's royal father, Henry IV.)

I had used "Upstart Crow" for a while, but had to change my screen name and picked the next Shakespearean one that popped into my mind.

[Paul Newell]

I thought it was either Keith or Tom who had originally come up with the idea, back in the '70s. Am I remembering incorrectly?
Could be Tom. He was very active in 70's Legion fandom.

[Paul Newell]

I don't know... but it's certainly one of the worst ideas the Giffen-Bierbaums had during their run. Erin being a transsexual was also pretty silly; blowing up the moon wasn't all that great, and blowing up Earth just begged for a new reboot.

All that being said, the TMK legion remains my favorite. The good stuff just outweighed the bad in my book!

That run was also rich in untimely demises, which fits the spirit of this thread. I liked Sun Boy's tragic end, and the death of Blok was a real shocker. (Since when do villains just walk up to heroes and blow them away? Without even a "vengence is mine" speech?)

Tying in two things you mentioned....It was revealed in the Legion Companion that, originally, Shvaughn was to be the one to die in #3, but Al Gordon didn't like the idea, so Kieth Giffen asked what could be done with her and Gordon blurted out, off the top of his head, "She's a man!".

[Roquefort Raider]

Tying in two things you mentioned....It was revealed in the Legion Companion that, originally, Shvaughn was to be the one to die in #3, but Al Gordon didn't like the idea, so Kieth Giffen asked what could be done with her and Gordon blurted out, off the top of his head, "She's a man!".

Now I will always picture Al Gordon as looking like Austin Powers!

[Smarty Jones]

It seems like the deaths being discussed include those characters who were brought back from the grave. You also can include the first Karate Kid of the Legion of Super-Heroes, who died fighting Nemesis Kid on Princess Projectra's home planet. Karate Kid lost in a battle to the death.

You also can throw in the death of Adam Warlock and Thanos, during Thanos' near-successful destruction of The Marvel Universe.

For a villain's death, the death of Michael Korvac after his lover rejected him.

[Agentum]

But those won't make a top ten of important deaths.

[Jolly Mon]

Even stupider than Shvaughn Erin being a man?

Well, at least s/he stayed human..... :D

But, I have to grant you that wasn't the brightest move, either. That was the last straw for me, I dropped the comic after that. Didn't come back until just before the Zero Hour reboot.

[shaxper]

Yes indeed! It's one of miy favorites, too. Have taught it, read it, seen it many times. (Particularly relevant today, what with a certain leader "busying giddy minds with foreign quarrels," in the words of Hal's royal father, Henry IV.)

I had used "Upstart Crow" for a while, but had to change my screen name and picked the next Shakespearean one that popped into my mind.

Perhaps "Shake-Scene" would have worked as a substitute? ;)

Always a pleasure to meet one of those rare individuals that appreciates both the world of vintage comics and the world of the Renaissance stage.

[founder81]

(Since when do villains just walk up to heroes and blow them away? Without even a "vengence is mine" speech?)

Joker shot Barbara Gordon as soon as she opened the door (but i don't think he knew she was batgirl)

[Jeff O.]

Was there ever an explanation of how Casper died?

In the live-action and cgi film, CASPER (1995), there is mention of how Casper McFadden died. (I don't remember hearing that last name for him before this film.) I don't have the video nearby, but I see the IMDb has the relevant quotes at

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112642/quotes.

Casper: I begged and begged my dad to give me this sled, but, be [sic] acted like I couldn't even have it, because I didn't know how to ride. But then one morning, I came down for breakfast and there it was! Just for me, for no reason at all. I took it out... went sledding all day... my dad said "That's enough" but I couldn't stop I was having so much fun... it got late... got dark... got cold... and I got sick... my dad got sad...

Kat: What's it like to die?

Casper: Like... being born, only backwards... I remember, I didn't go where I was supposed to go... I just stayed behind, so my dad wouldn't be lonely


When Casper becomes "alive" again for one night, we see him portrayed not through cgi but by a live, young actor. I take it that was the way Casper looked in life. In the film, Casper says that his favorite baseball player was Duke Snider of the Brooklyn Dodgers. Casper also puts on a Brooklyn Dodgers hat that belonged to him in life. (Hall-of-Fame Center Fielder Duke Snider hit the most home runs and had the most RBI's of any major leaguer in the decade of the 1950s.) Duke and The Dodgers left Brooklyn for Los Angeles after the 1957 season, so within the continuity of the film, Casper would have probably died in the 1950s, by 1957. The way Casper speaks of Duke makes me think he followed Duke's career in Brooklyn as it was happening, and not that Casper only heard of him years later and became devoted to him.

[Jeff O.]

PS

Although I remember Casper shown in a cemetery in one of the earliest cartoons, there is also the theatrical cartoon, "Hide and Shriek," which shows Casper "living" with his mother. Here, his mother is a ghost, too. His popular cousin Spooky is a ghost, as well, which led me long ago to wonder if Casper was supposed to have always been a ghost. By that I mean, I wondered if there was a time at Paramount when they didn't want to dwell on Casper's having died, and so began to imply that he was born as a ghost to a ghost mother, like a cartoon leprechaun has always been a leprechaun, and a green-faced cartoon witch was born a witch. (The Big Cartoon DataBase mentions that the cartoon, "Casper's Birthday Party," shows both Casper's mother and father. If Casper wasn't always a ghost, then maybe there was once supposed to be a tragedy that took his whole family.)

One definition of "ghost" is a spirit, whether or not the ghost ever had a body. The Holy Spirit is also called The Holy Ghost, of course. In theology, angels are spirits created without bodies. The Ancient Romans believed that people had good spirits who watched over them from the day they were born, and many today believe in friendly guardian angels. Outside of Marley, I don't think of the ghosts who visit Scrooge in A CHRISTMAS CAROL as having once had bodies. In parapsychology, not all ghosts who occupy haunted houses have previously lived in the flesh, either.

The 1995 film was the most explicit portrayal that Casper had indeed died, since probably those early days when he was shown in a cemetery in "There's Good Boos To-Night."

[Jeff O.]

I remember reading that the MLJ character The Comet was the first superhero to die in comics (http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=1485), and he came back twenty-three years later (http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=18644).

The Comet's death in the Golden Age led his brother to take up the identity of The Hangman, in revenge on the forces of evil.

THE COMET at Toonopedia (http://www.toonopedia.com/comet.htm)

[prince hal]

Always a pleasure to meet one of those rare individuals that appreciates both the world of vintage comics and the world of the Renaissance stage.

Likewise, I'm sure, and at the risk of taking this thread off-topic, I'll mention that Shakespeare's death was alluded to, at least metaphorically, in the wonderfully elegiac SANDMAN #75, which is nearly as sublime and elegant a tale as SANDMAN #19, both of which I am sure you know well.

[Bicycle-Repairman]

If Casper wasn't always a ghost, then maybe there was once supposed to be a tragedy that took his whole family.

It was horrible. Stumbo the Giant accidentally stepped on their house.

Next up for discussion: does Hot Stuff the Little Devil promote Satanism?

[shaxper]

Likewise, I'm sure, and at the risk of taking this thread off-topic, I'll mention that Shakespeare's death was alluded to, at least metaphorically, in the wonderfully elegiac SANDMAN #75, which is nearly as sublime and elegant a tale as SANDMAN #19, both of which I am sure you know well.

Believe it or not, I've yet to tackle Sandman. I tried the first issue once and was not particularly captivated, but I'll have to try a few more to see if it grows on me.

[Mike Kuypers]

Next up for discussion: does Hot Stuff the Little Devil promote Satanism?

Are you kidding? I heard Wendy is in league with him!

[DDM]

Believe it or not, I've yet to tackle Sandman. I tried the first issue once and was not particularly captivated, but I'll have to try a few more to see if it grows on me.

Buy Sandman's Season of Mists TPB. The story drew me in competely.

[Apathy Boy]

It's not mentioned. Morgan's spell was powerful, but, I suppose, it could be theorized due to Greer's link with the mystical Cat People made her immune to Morgan's spell.Actually, the spell that erased Spider-Woman from history wasn't cast by Morgan. It was cast, at Jessica's request, by her sorceror friend, whose name escapes me (Magus, maybe?). In the follow-up in AVENGERS, Magus explains that his powers were waning, so the spell was broken when the people closest to Jessica actually saw her.

I absolutely loathed Spider-Woman's death, by the way. Ranks right up there with Iron Fist for the "most arbitrary and rushed death to end a series" award.

Deaths that I liked:
-Ted Knight in STARMAN
-Jim Corrigan in Ostrander and Mandrake's SPECTRE (the final death, not the one that turned him into the Wrath of God)

Two elegant deaths that had been building up for some time but nonetheless still hurt when they happened.

[TomGun13]

I nominate the death of Hartigan in Sin City: That Yellow Bastard.

Nice call which no one had mentioned up until that point.

I also agree with:

SA Flash
Crime Syndicate
Gwen Stacy
Uncle Ben
Supergirl

[Smarty Jones]

"But those won't make a top ten of important deaths."

I would disagree about Thanos' and Adam Warlock's deaths, especially given how they died.

[Jeff O.]

It was horrible. Stumbo the Giant accidentally stepped on their house.

Of all the ghost origins I've heard, that might be the Topper.


Next up for discussion: does Hot Stuff the Little Devil promote Satanism?

To keep him out of temptation, Harvey kept Hot Stuff busy promoting dental care, baseball, and scouting.

[Gothos]

One important death-- and maybe even a "top ten" candidate-- is that of Captain George Stacy, father of Spidey's Gwen, who gives his life to push an innocent boy out of harm's way. It was a real shocker, since he seemed to be an integral part of the series back then. However, in a way his death sealed Gwen's fate, too. Once Dad Stacy was no longer there nosing into Parker's ID, Gwen lost some of her narrative importance, and became just "the girlfriend," aside from a brief period when she was accusing Spidey of her father's death. One could say that once Stacy died, the handwriting was on the wall for Gwen too.

But Stacy wasn't the first death of a Spidey supporting-character: before that we had Fred Foswell, who had allied his criminal talents to those of the Kingpin, but died trying to save Jonah Jameson from the Kingpin's thugs. It wasn't quite as moving as Stacy's death, as Foswell was a lesser character, but Stan gave it his best.

Another impressive death is that of "Hawk" of Killraven's Freemen. His is a noble death too but he doesn't get the satisfaction of saving the one he tries to save, so that his sacrifice is a more bitter pill to readers.

I liked how one writer killed off the Fixer in THUNDERBOLTS but unfortunately he was "downloaded" into another mechanical body almost immediately, robbing his demise of any poignancy.

[LordEd1976]

I've written threads on top film deaths and top anime deaths, now its the comics world's turn. Same rules apply, no one on this list has been brought back to life. A couple of people on the list have had new versions of themselves introduced but I'm counting said new versions as different people.

The reason I've posted over here in Classic Comics is cause of the fact both DC and Marvel are in here.

10. the 19 villains at the Bar with No Name (Captain America)
9. the Skull (Earth X)
8. Half of New York (Watchmen)
7. Obadiah Stane (Iron Man)
6. Swordsman I (Avengers)
5. Pre Crisis Supergirl (Crisis on Infinite Earths)
4. Pre-Reboot Ferro Lad (Legion of Super-Heroes in Adventure Comics)
3. Captain Mar-Vell (Death of Captain Marvel)
2. Uncle Ben (Spider-Man in Amazing Fantasy)
1. Flash-Barry Allen (Crisis on Infinite Earths)

[Cherokee Jack]

Check out this thread:


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=107316

[J'onn J'onzz]

:confused: I've read all the other deaths but who was the Skrull (of EARTH-X)?

[LordEd1976]

:confused: I've read all the other deaths but who was the Skrull (of EARTH-X)?

Thats the Skull, not Skrull. He's a kid that had the ability to control others. he created an army of unwilling soldiers that marched from California to New York. He had the chance to control Captain America but left him alone to torture him by leaving him the only free man. Cap organized an army to oppose the Skull but failed in his first attempt. the second time, Cap used living clay statues as his army and disguised himself as his own clay statue. He approached the Skull from behind and snapped his neck, killing him and freeing everyine else from his control.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I merged the two threads on this topic.

[nuclearman]

No particular order...
Do they have to have stayed dead?

Gwen Stacy
Flash (Barry Allen)
Kraven the Hunter
Uncle Ben
Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
Hobgoblin (Ned Leeds)

[divinebrown]

Sarah Essen-Gordon at the end of Batman's "No Man's Land" saga at the hands of the Joker. IMO this had much more of an impact on me than either the deaths of Jason Todd or the crippling of Barbara Gordon.

[Perry Holley]

A lot of overlap with those who have already been mentioned...

Kid Miracleman
Green Goblin I (that's how a villain dies dammit!)
Gwen Stacy
Uncle Ben - sure, it was just setup, but it's the defining moment in Spidey's life
Flash (Barry Allen) - really added to the impact of Crisis
Supergirl - ditto
Karate Kid - the best of the Legion deaths, IMO
Captain Mar-vell (Spidey's reaction is priceless)
Thunderbird I
Valerie, in V For Vendetta - we never actually see her death, but Evey reading her letter never fails to choke me up
Phoenix (duh!)
Terra I
Menthor
Guardian I
Doom Patrol
Charlie (from Spider-Man/Wolverine) - she essentially trickes Spidey into killing her
Skurge, the Executioner - the 'one man defending the bridge' is a very powerful motif for me
Hartigan (from That Yellow Bastard)

And finally, while I can't remember the character's name off the top of my head, for personal impact I'd like to mention the old man in Simonson's run of Thor, who tried to trick the thunder god into killing him, so that he could die in battle and ascend to Valhalla. Thor sees through the ruse, but takes the old man along on one of his quests; the old man dies helping Thor battle a monster, Thor gives him a viking funeral, and for the first time in centuries, a new warrior enters the halls of Valhalla...

[Sir Tim Drake]

And finally, while I can't remember the character's name off the top of my head, for personal impact I'd like to mention the old man in Simonson's run of Thor, who tried to trick the thunder god into killing him, so that he could die in battle and ascend to Valhalla. Thor sees through the ruse, but takes the old man along on one of his quests; the old man dies helping Thor battle a monster, Thor gives him a viking funeral, and for the first time in centuries, a new warrior enters the halls of Valhalla...

His name was Eilif. That was an awesome story, possibly my favorite issue of Thor.

[LordEd1976]

His name was Eilif. That was an awesome story, possibly my favorite issue of Thor.


I love that story too. If I recall correctly, the creature they fought was the dragon Fafnir. Eilif died fighting him but Thor managed to Fafnir. When Thor gave Eilif the viking funeral, he placed the corpse of Fafnir at Eilif's feet, much like how a dog was placed at the feet of a viking.

I'll never forget the image of the Valkyries flying through the sky.

[LordEd1976]

No particular order...
Do they have to have stayed dead?

Gwen Stacy
Flash (Barry Allen)
Kraven the Hunter
Uncle Ben
Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
Hobgoblin (Ned Leeds)

For my part, I try to keep to people who stayed dead. I think a cool death scene gets ruined when the character comes back. Its hard to get emotional at Barry Allen running himself to death if years later there's a comic where he makes a triumphant return. (Fortunately that has yet to happen.)

[scratchie]

For my part, I try to keep to people who stayed dead. I think a cool death scene gets ruined when the character comes back. Its hard to get emotional at Barry Allen running himself to death if years later there's a comic where he makes a triumphant return. (Fortunately that has yet to happen.)I take it you're not reading Infinite Crisis, then, huh?

[Aetherus]

I love that story too. If I recall correctly, the creature they fought was the dragon Fafnir. Eilif died fighting him but Thor managed to Fafnir. When Thor gave Eilif the viking funeral, he placed the corpse of Fafnir at Eilif's feet, much like how a dog was placed at the feet of a viking.

The Mighty Thor #342 and #343 is Walt Simonson's best work during his entire run with the series (with #380 coming in third). That image of Thor lifting the dead Fafnir on his shoulders was awesome. The arrival of the Valkyrie to escort Eilif into Valhalla: wow.

[Sir Tim Drake]

The Mighty Thor #342 and #343 is Walt Simonson's best work during his entire run with the series (with #380 coming in third).

I'd probably agree with that, although I have a soft spot for #353, #382 and #364-366. (Who else but Simonson could have written a good and mostly-serious story about Thor turning into a frog?)

[LordEd1976]

I take it you're not reading Infinite Crisis, then, huh?

Yes I am. [spoil]He didn't return to life. That appearance was more him and the others acting as avatars of the speed force.[spoil]

[gentlesatirist]

...that no one on this board has mentioned the death of Aquaman's son, Arthur Curry Jr.

The oversight might be because DC handled it in all of one page in a late 1970s issue of Aquaman. I bleive Black Manta was the killer. I remember even as a kid being incredulous at how DC just kinda slipped it in there at the end. And Aquaman apparently gets over it in 3 panels or something like that.

They killed Aquaman's kid!

It's supposed to be such a key part of the whole "tortured hero" thing Aquaman had going there for a while. I think grief over the death caused Mera to leave him.

Heck, with DC continuity being so scrambled - and now that they're apparently planning to make Aquaman a sword-and-sorcery hero - little Arthur probably hasn't even existed for several years now.

If nothing else, that's got to be the youngest character to die in mainstream comics. Can you imagine doing that today? It would take a 3-issue story arc! Then they'd say it was actually a robot kid that died!


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[Mike Kuypers]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the murder of Batwoman, either (Detective Comics #485, September 1979). Of course when you pluck someone out of retirement for the sole purpose of killing them off it does seem rather pointless.

[gentlesatirist]

...they killed Aquaman's kid!

Does the lack of memory or interest just finally prove that Aquaman is a permanent second-stringer in the DC Universe? That if Filmation hadn't needed a blond hero to put opposite Superman in those 60s cartoons - and if Hanna-Barbera hadn't needed a blond guy in Super Friends as well - the character would be as well remembered as Congo Bill?


- FE

[Ray R.]

Well, you could also always point to the death of Bucky, Captain America's sidekick, as referenced way back in Avengers #4 (although Brubaker's "Winter Soldier" run just put that death into doubt) as the first major Marvel death.

My personal favorites apart from the already-named most famous:

1.) Uncle Scrooge's Father in "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" by Don Rosa. Done beautifully, off panel, with the sun shining into the castle where his body lay.

2.) Noodles, from Usagi Yojimbo. This was a mentally challenged peaceful, if large creature, who assisted Kitsune, the fox thief, and who died from spear wounds inflicted during crucifixion. Painful to watch, powerful in its portrayal by Stan Sakai.

3.) Spot, from Usagi Yojimbo. A lizard companion to first Usagi, and later Zato-Ino, the blind swordspig. He died saving his master, a noble death that was not entirely unexpected, but still very sad.

4.) Captain Marvel - in the graphic novel - "The Death of Captain Marvel." Starlin at his best. The collection of the best and brightest scientists in the Marvel Universe to try to find the cure for cancer, to no avail. The arrival of the Skrull representative, to honor Mar-Vell for his valor as an enemy. Spiderman and others, noting how superheroes just didn't go out like that. Respectful, and poignant. Again, Jim Starlin at the absolute top of his game.

5.) Warlock - another Starlin opus that was incredibly engaging due to the fact that Warlock knew he was going to die, BY HIS OWN HAND (well, soul gem actually) early in his own series, and not until Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2, much later, did it come to pass. Resurrected, of course, by Starlin even. Still, doesn't draw from the power of the series and one-shots (Strange Tales 178-181 or (182?), Warlock #9-15, Avengers Annual #7, Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2).

These are the five that come to mind, right now...

[shaxper]

2.) Noodles, from Usagi Yojimbo. This was a mentally challenged peaceful, if large creature, who assisted Kitsune, the fox thief, and who died from spear wounds inflicted during crucifixion. Painful to watch, powerful in its portrayal by Stan Sakai.

3.) Spot, from Usagi Yojimbo. A lizard companion to first Usagi, and later Zato-Ino, the blind swordspig. He died saving his master, a noble death that was not entirely unexpected, but still very sad.


Nice to see someone bringing Usagi into the fray! I was also moved by the death of Noodles, but it really bugged me how quickly both Usagi and Kitsune moved on after his death, almost unphased by the whole thing at the end of the issue. I would have liked that death to have had more of an impact, at least for Kitsune.

Spot's death was quite sad.