What is Dark & Gritty?

[abyss]

Now this was started in another thread but I'd like to continue the disscusion.

Originally Posted by Agentum
At least make more funny superherobooks like the recent Defenders or She-hulk, those dark and gritty comics are to many to begin with, why have more of the exactly same?

Originally Posted by Abyss
We do? A lot of people seem to think this I really don't think Marvel as many dark and gritty comics there likes

Daredevil
Captain America
Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme
The Punisher
Moon Knight
The Ultimates

thats bout it..that just a handful of titles.

Originally Posted by Kinbote
You can add GHOST RIDER, and I think RUNAWAYS is kinda dark. Not to mention several X-Men titles leaning towards the dark side, X-MEN: APOCALYPSE/DRACULA and X-MEN: DEADLY GENESIS are more darker than normal, and though I haven't read it yet, SON OF M seems dark and gritty in its story. Those are just a few from upcoming titles to add, next thing you know though it all adds up and I believe theres more.

I don't mind dark and gritty, though I agree with Agentum that I'd like to see alittle more humor oriented heros. Myself and several others who collect have talked and agreed that the comic market became bombarded by dark and gritty titles around the late 80's and early 90's, and its been that way ever since. Not that they didn't exist before, just more now than ever in the past.

For comics, I blame it mainly on Spawns past popularity, remember in the earliy 90's, it was really, really popular for its time, and way darker than any comic hero thats ever been that popular before. In the wake of its influence many publishers tried pumping out more of the same to broden the range of the comic industry and cash in. Next thing you know it became more and more acceptable to go with dark and gritty themed characters and comic titles to the point that its now become a staple.

Maybe not so much from Marvel, but deffinatly on the industry on a whole. On a larger observation, I consider it a part of the subculture evolution, mainly in conjuction with Gen X, it all started with things like Indutrial/Punk rock music, and art like H.R. Giger, both from the late 70' early 80's. Then slowly leaking into the mainstream media to now create an acceptable darker outlook of things.

Now none of the X-Men titles are dark and gritty the only one that comes close is PAD's X-Factor. And Runaways DARK???? That like pure super hero old school marvel book. Nothing dark about that. So Im beginning to think that people have very different definitons of the words dark and gritty. Because I do not consider any X-title dark nor Runaways.

[Kinbote]

That is interesting. What really is dark and gritty? People can and do have different views of what can be considered "dark and gritty". I was kinda leading to the point that it can depend on the time frame that your looking at it from.

I've been reading and collecting comics since the early 80's, and I know for a fact that walking into a comic book store now is a completely different experience than it used to be. Overall, most everything looks dark and gritty compared to long ago, and there's more personal dysfunctional drama included into everything now than there ever used to be explored in regular comics before.

Not to mention the way art itself has evolved, as I mentioned. The typical look of a lot of comics nowadays, not everything, is also darker than it ever used to be long ago. Darker meaning literally more shades, and shadows being used in gritty, street ally type backgrounds to portray and emphasis the personal drama, or gothic story line like the use of Dracula in an upcoming X-MEN: APOCALYPSE/DRACULA #1 (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=3527&format=comic). The art used there, I consider, is definitely dark, and many titles, no matter the content, look the same.

Then some titles, can be the opposite, less gothic looking art, but the dysfunctional drama is still there. I've only picked up a few issues of the Runaways, but I considered them in that category. There's a background of dysfunctional drama about being a runaway, and in that way I think its a little dark. Same with Marvel Knights Sentry, I thought that was very dark and gritty.

I'm only analyzing the subject at hand, and not attacking your view. Comic books though overall are much darker than you realize if you haven't watched their metamorphosis over the past 30 years. I just think its a shame that there hasn't been many new comic hero's featured in a more light hearted series with no dysfunctions, and to be known for being funny like Spider-Man, Iceman and Human Torch.

[abyss]

Ohhh ok I see where your coming from now. And I agree that the story teeling has certainly evolved sicne the 80s/90s. It defnmietyl was more light hearted tone back than. But I just see todays comcis as more serious or haivng alot more drama to them. I wouldn;t classify that as gritty though. When I think dark and gritty I think like noir or horror. Like say Alias or Daredevil is far darker than that of any of the core titles. I think alot of title these days do use darker storylines and such. But when I say dark and gritty im meaning more specific like Daredevil usually has a dark tone all through out the arcs. Were as X-Men you can light hearted moments or even write a light hearted arc. But you wouldn't see Daredevil being written light hearted.

[WoodenDummy]

The new X-Factor is looking to me like it's going to be dark. I'm loving it so far.

[tangentman]

However, Dan Slott seems dedicated to bringing fun back to Marvel comics. Check out his GLA, She-Hulk, and Thing series. The GLA works specifically comment on the glut of "grim'n'gritty" stories in comics. She-Hulk pokes fun at fanboyism, while Thing brings back the old-school superhero team-up in the spirit of "Marvel Two-In-One". It's not all shadowy inks and dysfunctional stories in the MU.

[ultimatespyder20]

Wolverine is darker than other books, I also think Moonknight well be too. I do like storys a little more darker though.

[Harold of the Rocks]

coffee grounds

[Agentum]

As i'm included in the subject, i think there is a lot of Dark comics out there from diffrent publishers.
I like dark comics too, but it can be too much, balance is needed, for every Batman or Daredevil there should be an She-Hulk or Booster Gold.

I don't want to get rid of the dark and gritty, i only want to laugh sometimes, read and just have fun.
It can be depressing to read som of the dark titles for a long time:)
I like realistic and deep storytelling, but sometimes i wan't the opposite.

I think overall comics is a lot darker today than it was maybe 20 years ago, i mean the standard comic now that people would think is normal would have been considered dark once.