She-Hulk and Juggernaut

[jadegiant77]

I don't remember the exact issue where Jen and Cain got it on, but it was sometime during Austen's excreable run on Uncanny. In the current She -Hulk book, she angrily tells Doc Samson that she didn't have sex with him. What's going on, is this a retcon? Did Nightmare frak with Jen's mind too?

[Expletive Deleted]

Retcon, thankfully.

[Dermie]

The She-Hulk/Juggernaut situation is something that SHE-HULK writer Dan Slott has said he intends to deal with--and get rid of--eventually. That scene in SH #11 where Jen has no memory of sleeping with Juggernaut is laying the groundwork for the story that Dan eventually intends to tell.

[jadegiant77]

ohhh...

what was wrong with her schtupping Juggernaut anyway? ;)

[Citizen V]

I rember that.It was in Uncanny`s "The Trial Of The Juggernaught".

[thik_3rd]

that was actually a decent story...one of austen's 2 good uncanny stories. figures it was only 2 issues long.
i don't think it's been retconned...until i read otherwise when she-hulk said no to that, she was just in denial/bloking out the painful memories of it.

[Edward J Cunningham]

ohhh...

what was wrong with her schtupping Juggernaut anyway? ;)

Some people I know hate that story simply because they hate the Juggernaut and refuse to accept his rehabilitation in X-Men. The main reason people (including Slott) object is that Juggy has tried several times to kill Jennifer's cousin, and that is NOT something Jen would take lightly.

Eddie Cunningham

[ednemo]

I have always liked the Juggernaut. He has always been loyal to his friends, even when tools like Black Tom were unworthy of that respect. Juggernaut deserves to get some, and let's face it...there's very few woman that would physically capable to "be with" Juggy. And She-Hulk definitely fits the bill.

Also, is the She-Hulk Lawyer books considered "canon"? I was thinking I had heard it was out of continuity.

[Expletive Deleted]

Also, is the She-Hulk Lawyer books considered "canon"? I was thinking I had heard it was out of continuity.No, Dan Slott goes to a lot of trouble to keep it very much in continuity.

[AllisterH]

Some people I know hate that story simply because they hate the Juggernaut and refuse to accept his rehabilitation in X-Men. The main reason people (including Slott) object is that Juggy has tried several times to kill Jennifer's cousin, and that is NOT something Jen would take lightly.

Eddie Cunningham

Hmmm.....

They only faced each other 3 times over the years.

1st time they escaped together and they started fighting because Juggy wanted him and Hulk to take over the world (only time I've ever seen Cain actually interested in that) and Savage Hulk was trying to stop Cain.

2nd time was during PAD's Hulk run where basically, Hulk got mugged by Cain and damn near drowned. Even there, he didn't kill the Professor Hulk as it was a plot by The Leader.

3rd time, WarHulk jumped Cain (who was minding his own business) and boosted by Celestial tech, was about to take Cain's head off.

Thus, in 3 appearances, Cain has only tried to actually kill the Hulk once (and that's the first appearance). So where's everyone getting the idea that Cain has a hard-on for the Hulk? You sure people aren't talking about The Abomination?

[ednemo]

Well...in Slotts books, She-Hulk was partying hard every-night...and her sleeping with Juggernaut would not surprise me. Since, he could go to those parties now, since he's a superhero. Or at least was, the last time I read a book with him in it. In the end, it doesn't matter. Love it or hate it, Austin's run is in continuity. Deal with it and move on, everybody. And just be glad you didn't have to see it.

[Sean Whitmore]

Well...in Slotts books, She-Hulk was partying hard every-night...and her sleeping with Juggernaut would not surprise me.


That's a good point. If I remember the first isssue of Slott's book, wasn't it implied that She-Hulk was picking up guys left and right and not even remembering their names the next day?

The difference is in the perception, though. She-Hulk picking up guys is okay, since being in control of things fits her character. But her getting wet at Juggernaut's minor act of heroism and jumping into bed with him makes her seem a bit more like a "super hero girlfriend".

We'll leave aside the fact that Jugs was also her client, which is slightly unethical and all. :)


SEAN

[Edward J Cunningham]

Thus, in 3 appearances, Cain has only tried to actually kill the Hulk once (and that's the first appearance). So where's everyone getting the idea that Cain has a hard-on for the Hulk? You sure people aren't talking about The Abomination?

This is Dan Slott's reason for disliking my storyline. My friend simply dislikes the Juggernaut and feels he is a better character as a villain, not a reformed hero.

Eddie Cunningham

[thik_3rd]

Well...in Slotts books, She-Hulk was partying hard every-night...and her sleeping with Juggernaut would not surprise me.
only in the first issue. the rest of the series was her moving away from that, hence her being in denial over the event.

[Sharcque]

This is Dan Slott's reason for disliking my storyline. My friend simply dislikes the Juggernaut and feels he is a better character as a villain, not a reformed hero.

Eddie Cunningham
I'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but as I've never read She-Hulk, I have to ask, are you an ex-writer on that book?

[Taskmaster]

Some people I know hate that story simply because they hate the Juggernaut and refuse to accept his rehabilitation in X-Men. The main reason people (including Slott) object is that Juggy has tried several times to kill Jennifer's cousin, and that is NOT something Jen would take lightly.

Eddie Cunningham

Um Jen's own cousin has tried to kill HER so I would think she might be a little forgiving on that matter

[Agentum]

This is Dan Slott's reason for disliking my storyline. My friend simply dislikes the Juggernaut and feels he is a better character as a villain, not a reformed hero.

Eddie Cunningham
He was, but i think it's too like he (Slott) wan't it to be funny making puns about, something to laugh about, she-hulk is that kind of book.

Look at Juggernaut often described as somewhat retarded and angry smashing things, it is fun to joke about She-hulk being with him.

[Edward J Cunningham]

He was, but i think it's too like he (Slott) wan't it to be funny making puns about, something to laugh about, she-hulk is that kind of book.

Look at Juggernaut often described as somewhat retarded and angry smashing things, it is fun to joke about She-hulk being with him.

Let me just clarify that Dan Slott and "my friend" are two different people.

Eddie Cunningham

[AllisterH]

Look at Juggernaut often described as somewhat retarded and angry smashing things, it is fun to joke about She-hulk being with him.

*Blinks*
Are you guys sure you're talking about Juggy? Juggy for basically the last two decades has been presented as a relatively easy-going bloke unless you're stupid enough to actually get in his way.

See his talk with Captain Britain (he wasn't angry one bit, just told Britain that he had no chance of stopping him) or his willing to pay for damages in both his fights with Thunderstrike & Colossus.

Hell, even back in the Marvel two-in-one days when he fought Thing. He didn't fight Thing just because he wanted power but because Mephisto said he would help get Black Tom Castle Cassidy.

[MythicBrawn]

I think She-Hulk is in denial. She doesn't want to admit that she got busy with a super-villain, albeit reformed at the time. I believe she did it because of all the one-night stands that she was having as depicted in her own book. I imagine that she would have slept with Juggernaut because of the fact that here is a guy that she would not have to "restrain" herself with. Of all the people that she has been shown to have relationships, isn't Luke Cage the only super-powered one? She did it and totally regretted it. Well, she can just add that to one of those mistakes that she would like to forget.

[Calybos]

ohhh...

what was wrong with her schtupping Juggernaut anyway? ;)

Well, how about the fact that she can do way, way better?

[Agentum]

*Blinks*
Are you guys sure you're talking about Juggy? Juggy for basically the last two decades has been presented as a relatively easy-going bloke unless you're stupid enough to actually get in his way.


I live in a diffrent time when it comes to that, the Claremont X-men era or something :D

I can't even understand why they would chose to make him a hero instead of the villian he was.
I haven't read much of the last 15 years x-men hehe, and i guess i'm not alone.
:)

[Dermie]

She-Hulk would not simply hop into bed with a man who has tried to kill her cousin and her friends on more than one occassion.

Juggernaut was Jen's client at the time, which means that she could be fired for sleeping with him.

For She-Hulk to sleep with him is out of character behaviour, and it needs to be explained.
For those who suggest that the fact She-Hulk was sleeping around a lot at that point in time is explanation enough, there is a huge difference between Jen sleeping with some guy she met at a bar, who has never done anything bad to her, and Jen sleeping with a supposedly reformed supervillain who has tried to kill people she cares about--you simply cannot compare the two.

Dan isn't simply going to brush this incident aside and say it never happened--that isn't how Dan works. He respects continuity and makes use of it. We've already seen him acknowledge the incident when Doc Samson brought it up.
I'm guess that what Dan will likely do is either explain why She-Hulk behaved in this out of character way--and why she has no memory of it, (or possibly show that it wasn't actually She-Hulk, but I find that one a bit less likely).

[Neolucifer]

please Jen is still friend with many heroes , and each of them at some point went wacko , evil or mind controlled , especially herself included not so long ago ... she would hardly be one to hold such grudge .

Well, how about the fact that she can do way, way better?

Wyatt Wingfoot was corny at best .

[dingo]

Wyatt Wingfoot was corny at best .


Name aside, what makes you say that. I always found him to be a very interesting character.

[Agentum]

I like that Slott uses a lot of the things that was in the Sensational She-Hulk run, but i don't like one of the artist they have used, She-Hulk looks fat when he has drawn her.

OffTopic

[Dermie]

please Jen is still friend with many heroes , and each of them at some point went wacko , evil or mind controlled , especially herself included not so long ago ... she would hardly be one to hold such grudge.

There is a huge difference between a hero who was mind controlled or temporarily went nuts, and a man who was a villain for years of his own free will. Apples and oranges.

And actually, yes, She-Hulk has been known to hold grudges. But what does holding a grudge have to do with this anyway? It isn't "holding a grudge" for her to not simply jump into bed with a *client* who has tried to kill her family. That is simply common sense, legal ethics, and good taste.

[Neolucifer]

Name aside, what makes you say that. I always found him to be a very interesting character.

Obviously i didnt . I never cared for him , i didnt hate him , but he was mostly background and wallpaper to me . although it was fun for a while to see the damsel in distress cliché being reversed , and having She-Hulk be the knight in shining armor .
Still i find other supports characters , like Pug far more interesting . At least Pug isnt just a pretty boyscout . Things might have been pretty serious between Wyatt and Jen , but i could never shake the feeling that it was just a case of Shulkie owning her personal boytoy .

There is a huge difference between a hero who was mind controlled or temporarily went nuts, and a man who was a villain for years of his own free will. Apples and oranges.

And actually, yes, She-Hulk has been known to hold grudges. But what does holding a grudge have to do with this anyway? It isn't "holding a grudge" for her to not simply jump into bed with a *client* who has tried to kill her family. That is simply common sense, legal ethics, and good taste.

Well you were imo the one playing the grudge angle , with Shulkie supposed , in your sight , to be mad at an ex villain and now currently hero . She cant realistically be that moral uptight and strict , after the damage She and Bruce already did in their past , especially after witnessing his reconversion .

of course it wasnt her brightest moment , but i wouldnt say it was that out of character . Only a mistake , sexual impulse , something she is hardly above of . What i'd instead call being out of character is something like the Nocturne known in exiles , suddenly becoming the childish character currently shown in NEX .

In the past she tried flirting with the Thing , had one nght with Starfox , flirted with Hawkeye , tried something with Hercules and had plenty other flings .. she isnt above lust and sexual attraction , and you know that .

Of course i bet that Dan slott would likely retcon the story or corrects thing sin a way that would kill any romantic potentials between juggie and shulkie , and i wouldnt mind it .

[Dermie]

Well you were imo the one playing the grudge angle , with Shulkie supposed , in your sight , to be mad at an ex villain and now currently hero .

I never said she was mad at him--just that he isn't the type of man she'd go to bed with.

She cant realistically be that moral uptight and strict , after the damage She and Bruce already did in their past , especially after witnessing his reconversion .

That still ignores the fact that She-Hulk's damage was unintentional, whereas Juggernaut was a career criminal. It is a different situation.
As for witnessing his conversion, I don't believe that after watching one incident, she would immediately decide "Hey, I want to screw you". It was just WAY too fast. If Austen had taken the time to show She-Hulk developing a realistic attraction to him, and overcoming her past attitudes towards him and THEN had her sleep with him, I could possibly accept it. But having her assigned as his lawyer and then decide to just hop into bed with him at the drop of a hat is not realistic.

In the past she tried flirting with the Thing , had one nght with Starfox , flirted with Hawkeye , tried something with Hercules and had plenty other flings .. she isnt above lust and sexual attraction , and you know that .

As I said before, the fact that She-Hulk is willing to have sex doesn't mean she is willing to have sex with absolutely everyone and anyone that happens to come along!
There is no comparison between She-Hulk choosing to sleep with her friends and fellow heroes and her sleeping with a violent criminal, who is her client, and who has tried to murder people she cares about. They are completely different situations, and one has absolutely nothing to do with the other...unless you are suggesting that the fact that She-Hulk is willing to sleep with those men proves that she will have sex with anyone that comes along.

[Neolucifer]

As I said before, the fact that She-Hulk is willing to have sex doesn't mean she is willing to have sex with absolutely everyone and anyone that happens to come along!
There is no comparison between She-Hulk choosing to sleep with her friends and fellow heroes and her sleeping with a violent criminal, who is her client, and who has tried to murder people she cares about. They are completely different situations, and one has absolutely nothing to do with the other...unless you are suggesting that the fact that She-Hulk is willing to sleep with those men proves that she will have sex with anyone that comes along.

Mm no you are stretching it the wrong way . I read it like "she get in bed or makes a pass at anyone she feel an attraction for". Thats hardly anybody she encounter in the street , and nothing wrong or slutty . And from her current list of boyfriends or flings , she could physically be attracted to someone like Juggy .

afterward the only limitation would be if like yous aid , she'd never make a pass at a former criminal , especially without any foreplay . I see it like a mistake she did on a sexual impulse .

[Lawrence]

I live in a diffrent time when it comes to that, the Claremont X-men era or something :D

I can't even understand why they would chose to make him a hero instead of the villian he was.
I haven't read much of the last 15 years x-men hehe, and i guess i'm not alone.
:)

Claremont wrote that issue where Nimrod fights Juggernaut and the X-men where Juggernaut was minding his own business when he was provoked. Also, there was the time when Colossus spilled beer on him..

[Dermie]

Mm no you are stretching it the wrong way . I read it like "she get in bed or makes a pass at anyone she feel an attraction for". Thats hardly anybody she encounter in the street , and nothing wrong or slutty . And from her current list of boyfriends or flings , she could physically be attracted to someone like Juggy .

afterward the only limitation would be if like yous aid , she'd never make a pass at a former criminal , especially without any foreplay . I see it like a mistake she did on a sexual impulse .

Fair enough--but I still think Jen has enough self control not to give in to a sexual impulse to sleep with a client (which could get her fired) who is a violent criminal who has tried to kill people she cares about. Jen certainly can make mistakes--she's not perfect. But I don't buy THIS mistake, at least not how it was presented to us.

[Calybos]

I'm seeing this debate argued from the wrong direction: as though she has to come up with good, sensible reasons NOT to sleep with him.

Wrongo. Maybe she just didn't like the guy that much. By default, Jennnifer hasn't slept with literally millions of guys; why should Juggernaut be any different?

[Cowlander]

Well she did have a few drinks with the Blizzard so, hanging with the bad guys isnt exactly that far fetched. Juggy just got game and Blizzard didnt.



Dont Hate, Congragulate......

[jadegiant77]

mebbe she was just real horny and went for whoever was available? I 've been there. ;)

[Dermie]

Well she did have a few drinks with the Blizzard so, hanging with the bad guys isnt exactly that far fetched.

Not really. She-Hulk had drinks with Blizzard in order to get him drunk so she could capture him without fighting. It is a completely different situation.

[Gnarl]

While I'm not one of the people who hate Austin, I always though "Trial of the Juggernaut" was a low point. Internal consistensy just boiled away.

Cain wasn't Jens client, no matter what Austen wrote. Jen doesn't have a canadian law degree, and cannot work as a lawyer in Canada. Law is not like science in this respect.

At best she was there as some kind of advisor.

As for the rest, I always thought that super-strong characters must find something lacking in sexual relationships with normal, "kleenex" people.

She-Hulk would not be the first or only woman to bed someone, and then regret and deny it later.

[TinMan]

Come on! Look at the size of the guy, he HAS to be hung like a blue whale! I throw this one out to the I'm drunk and "Oh BABY!" factor. Besides Shulkies one of the only characters in Marvel that could handle "the unstoppable tube steak". :p

[Gnarl]

I...hadn't thought about the "unstoppable" factor. Can't be stopped while moving...I got to go wash my brain now.

[Cowlander]

Not really. She-Hulk had drinks with Blizzard in order to get him drunk so she could capture him without fighting. It is a completely different situation.
See Dermie thats your problem, youre thinking logically, bad move. ;)

[TinMan]

I...hadn't thought about the "unstoppable" factor. Can't be stopped while moving...I got to go wash my brain now.

Ya, he "tore" it up alright... prolly broke her hips too! Good thing she has that regenerative ability... ;)

[The Joker]

For someone who's not really familiar with She-Hulk, this thread has got me a wee bit curious on the superheros that Jen has slept with, and flirted or attempted to flirt, and sleep with? :p

The list so far:

The Thing (flirted)
Starfox (slept with)
Hawkeye (flirted)
Hercules (possibly slept with)
Juggarnaut (????)

Are there more names that should be mentioned?

[Dermie]

For someone who's not really familiar with She-Hulk, this thread has got me a wee bit curious on the superheros that Jen has slept with, and flirted or attempted to flirt, and sleep with? :p

The list so far:

The Thing (flirted)
Starfox (slept with)
Hawkeye (flirted)
Hercules (possibly slept with)
Juggarnaut (????)

Are there more names that should be mentioned?

As far as we know, she's never slept with Hercules.

She has slept with Luke Cage.

She has flirted with Triathlon, but that seemed to be more playful flirting rather than actually showing an interest. There are probably a lot that would fall under that heading.

She once expressed an interest in Namor, but never followed up on it (he was married at the time, and since then she hasn't seemed overly fond of him).

I think that's it for superheroes.

[The Joker]

Thanks for the reply. :)

[Taskmaster]

As far as we know, she's never slept with Hercules.

She has slept with Luke Cage.

She has flirted with Triathlon, but that seemed to be more playful flirting rather than actually showing an interest. There are probably a lot that would fall under that heading.

She once expressed an interest in Namor, but never followed up on it (he was married at the time, and since then she hasn't seemed overly fond of him).

I think that's it for superheroes.

Hmmm I thought Herc and Shulkie had done the deeed , or at least implied it (i'm thinknig it was around H4H)

[marshal99]

C'mon , that's Austen writing for you. If nothing else works , get the characters into bed = sellability. It's not like Austen hasn't done it before , he loves his bed scenes and love triangle.

[Sandy Hausler]

For someone who's not really familiar with She-Hulk, this thread has got me a wee bit curious on the superheros that Jen has slept with, and flirted or attempted to flirt, and sleep with? :p

The list so far:

The Thing (flirted)
Starfox (slept with)
Hawkeye (flirted)
Hercules (possibly slept with)
Juggarnaut (????)

Are there more names that should be mentioned?

Let's not forget Wyatt Wingfoot. Not a superhero, I know, but an FF hanger on of long standing.

Sandy Hausler

Sandy Hausler

[Dermie]

Hmmm I thought Herc and Shulkie had done the deeed , or at least implied it (i'm thinknig it was around H4H)

No, in H4H, Shulkie was with Luke Cage.

They flirted a bit in the past, but Jen was with Wyatt at the time, and Jen said that her flirting with Herc was just a game at that point.
Later, when Jen was single again, she started having sexual fantasies about Herc (in early issues of the Sensational She-Hulk series) but when she and Herc finally got together again in the real world, his sexist attitudes turned her off.
Now, they seemed to be a little flirty again in Avengers vol.3 #55 (just after the Kang War), so it is possible they had a war-time fling off-panel...but that would be entirely speculation at this point; there isn't really anything to support it.

[Orion101]

I find it interesting that Dan and everyone else on this board lists the reasons for Jen not to be with Juggernaut is that he tried to kill her cousin repeatedly. Well that is not only not true it's a double standard Cain hasn't fought the Hulk that many times and in those times he only tried to kill him once. Besides Hercules has tried to kill her cousin on more than one occasion and nobody seems to have a problem with her being with him.

[dingo]

I find it interesting that Dan and everyone else on this board lists the reasons for Jen not to be with Juggernaut is that he tried to kill her cousin repeatedly. Well that is not only not true it's a double standard Cain hasn't fought the Hulk that many times and in those times he only tried to kill him once. Besides Hercules has tried to kill her cousin on more than one occasion and nobody seems to have a problem with her being with him.


Its more than that. He is a villain. He may not me now, but he was and he will be again. Guaranteed.

[Sandy Hausler]

Its more than that. He is a villain. He may not me now, but he was and he will be again. Guaranteed.

True. But she did sleep with him. Maybe she shouldn't have, but she did.

Sandy Hausler