Makoma #1 Thoughts- (spoilers abound!) [Archive]

Neil Hill

02-01-2006, 12:03 PM

As I'm sure many have yet to bolt out to their local comic book stores this fine Wednesday and purchase Makoma #1, I'll try to go easy on the spoilers in this post.

What a damn fine issue! Full of everything I cherish and adore about a well written and paced Hellboy adventure yarn. Dark humor, a nice taste of mythology, and a folkloric storytelling pace, all boiled together to make a really interesting broth of an issue. Mike is at the top of his game here and none can deny it- or at least if you do please remember you do so at your own peril, because that Right Hand of Doom looks very heavy and HB isn't afraid to use it on you. Read the issue if you're confused about the reference.

Lest I forget to mention that Richard Corben is superb here! Mike and Scott did the absolute right thing in chosing this guy (or him chosing them- however it worked out) to illustrate this damn fine tale!

Can't wait for issue 2 and I have a feeling many of you will feel the same way.

marchosias

02-01-2006, 01:17 PM

the story was pretty good. i think african mythology is an interesting step from celtic. BUT
corben? he may be all good and fine, but not here. no sir. i even liked most of his drawings, such as the tree planter and the water giants, and especially the demon. however, the mix of his and mignolas stuff just didnt suit me. corben's lacked the same sort of feeling. and the coloring style (not the colors) was not my cup of tea either. i am looking forward to the next one though. i mean cmon.
i just wish mignola would cary the burden, rather than share it.

jscott

02-01-2006, 01:51 PM

Johann

02-01-2006, 02:10 PM

Damn I forgot all about this issue, I haven't been to the comic shop in awhile, did BPRD: The Black Flame wrap up yet? I'm missed #5 and 6 if it came out..

Neil Hill

02-01-2006, 02:53 PM

Damn I forgot all about this issue, I haven't been to the comic shop in awhile, did BPRD: The Black Flame wrap up yet? I'm missed #5 and 6 if it came out..

Yes, BPRD did wrap up Johann, so you need to get your buns a bouncin' down to your local comic shop and pickup issues 5 and 6, like yesterday! What're ya waitin' for true believer, get movin'.......now!!! :D

Neil Hill

02-01-2006, 02:54 PM

I have, for the most part, always disliked Corben's art, and have never really understood the reverence dumped upon him. But, you know what, it's Hellboy and all, I'll pick this up and give another go at Senor Corben.

Heck, it took me years to come around to Guy Davis. Now I can't get enough of his work ('Marquis' is amazing! And BPRD... pure love, baby) Maybe 'Makoma' helps me understand the "Corben thing"...

I'll give it a go.

Yeah, give Corben a chance here. His style really fits the storyline IMO and is more than a match for the art that precedes in at the beginning of the issue. Corben is a god to many and I tend to think he's pretty keen also. :D

Gary_B

02-01-2006, 05:36 PM

I'm liking this story so far. Can't wait for next month.

There were more Mignola pages than I expected so...

bonus!

hellboyone

02-01-2006, 06:45 PM

Mignola pages: awesome. Corben pages: gorgeous (and takes me back to being a little kid and sneaking copies of Heavy Metal around). I think the set-up by Mignola and the body by Corben is a perfect match. Story: unexpectedly funny. It felt a lot like The Corpse in tone and pacing. Here's to issue two!

Top it off with a letter from our own Stygian!

R.

Myron L

02-01-2006, 06:55 PM

Can't wait...I get my copy from my local shop tomorrow ! Sounds great !!!

Mist the Soul-Gatherer

02-01-2006, 08:14 PM

Can't wait...I get my copy from my local shop tomorrow ! Sounds great !!!

WATCH OUT FOR SPOILERS!

It is great! What a refreshing change from the seriousness of Black Flame
and The Island. As was said, it takes you back to the early days of Hellboy.
The beginning is a little ominous (can't wait to see how that gets worked out),
but the rest is witty and fun, in true Hellboy style. I especially liked how HB keeps
his values and stays true to himself even when he isn't. I appreciate you art guys
debating the merits of Mignola vs. Corbin-and it's important you should- but a
good yarn's a good yarn. Part II looks even better!
H ;)

Tad

02-01-2006, 09:46 PM

You were warned! Possible spoilers.

I was thinking the same thing as Rick, this felt the most like the Corpse and was lots of fun. Corben was uneven for me but he always has been, just personal taste. Loved the guys in the sack, loved HB falling asleep and blending his story with the African legend.

And I vote the The NYC Explorers Club as the next spin off. (I hear they have Screw-on Head's #9 body in the basement.)

hellboyone

02-01-2006, 10:34 PM

morna

02-01-2006, 11:00 PM

I don't like how he does HB's feet AT ALL! I agree with you about that akward panel .. he's all kinda flattened out..going to go in again but on first read fun and corpse-like.

Brisco

02-02-2006, 01:05 AM

OH, MAN... I LOVED IT!!!

Spoilers, naturally....

This is definitely my favorite Hellboy story in quite a while. It was, as Rick pointed out, a lot like The Corpse... in all the right ways! It's the kind of Hellboy story I love the most: a blend of truly weird, compelling folklore, adventure, monster fights and quirky humor all from that very distinctive, off-kilter Mike Mignola point of view. The humor is so important, and despite some great lines and drinking with skeletons, I've (like Mist) missed it in the last few HB and, especially, BPRD stories. "Quit that! And back in the bag!" :) I love it.

Of course, as I now realize after reading the first Hellboy comic of the new era, the first official, chronological Hellboy tale not drawn entirely by Mike, the "I love it!" is immediately followed by "I wish Mike drew that!" I can't help it. It's just how it is. I read a great Hellboy tale, and I've gotta wish Mike drew it. Oh well, better get used to it.

That's not to dismiss Corbin's work at all. Like many here, it seems, I've never been a huge fan of the guy. Never abhorred him either, mind you. Just run hot and cold, like Tad. But here he does a good job. I wasn't crazy about his HB at first (that sitting by the fire panel IS weird) but he really grew on me, expecially when he's clobbering monsters with his big right hand. And speaking of those monsters, Corben NAILS them! That slippery fish-giant is AMAZING! One of my favorite HB monsters in a while. (Mezco, take note! Definite candidate for the comic book figure line!) And the expression on the mountain giant after Hellboy beats him... priceless.

And Mignola's work in the issue is also top notch. (Of course.) I love the greens on p. 5-7. I don't think we've seen that much green in Hellboy since Batman/HB/Starman, and that was a limier green. I like this a lot.

Can't wait for Issue 2!

Brisco

Matthoggua

02-02-2006, 08:40 AM

Yes, I agree in general, excellent issue, very "Corpse"-y, very funny. I'm aso hot and cold on Corben; when he's drawing Robert Howard-type stuff, he's the best in the business, but sometimes he does a whole comic of people who look like the old woman who gives HB the bag, and I want to scratch out my eyes. Not that the old woman, and the part of Corben's style which she exemplifies, is at all badly drawn; it's meant to be ugly, and, to my thinking, it does the job too well. But Corben was perfect for a well-lit, old-school, mythological, muscular-giant-havin' story such as this.

Neil Hill

02-02-2006, 12:07 PM

The only Corben panel I really had a problem with was the one with HB sitting around the fire. He looked all squished and big-headed. Overall though, I really liked his take on Big Red. And man...can he draw cool faces.

R.

Never speak ill of Corben's squashed and big headed bodies, Rick. You will have to taken out back and beaten thoroughly with a blunt #2 pencil :)

Seriously though, I agree there were a few "shaky" spots in the art, but overall, his artwork completely MADE this issue for me. That IMO is more the point than hitting every single pose, panel, or rendering just perfectly. We've got Mike for that if so needed. ;)

BTW, thanks for the props regarding my letter. I never lose that fan joy when I see one printed, and I always eat a huge piece of humble pie in acknowledging that my letters aren't always the best or most eloquently written. It's just fun seeing my words in print!

Myron L

02-02-2006, 01:02 PM

This was definitely what the doctor ordered! One of the best Hellboy reads in current history ! And I for one LOVE Corben's take on the issue. I enjoy the character shown on the gnarled faces he is famous for. His stuff on the recent BigFoot series with Rob Zombie was awesome, and his work in Penthouse Comix was great also. I agree about the one panel with Hellboy Waterhead (lol) sitting at the fire...a bit out of proportion, but the rest was great, and the color was very grabbing, as well. I am anxious to see #2 !

kid cthulhu

02-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Damn! Didn't know this was gonna be out so early in February. I've got to get off the computer and hit the shop. Will definitely sound off after reading it, of course.

DannyBoy7783

02-02-2006, 04:35 PM

I'm as big a Hellboy fan as anyone else around here but I don't always love what gets put out. I disliked this issue. I've been looking forward to it since the cover art was shown off and the story started off on a high night, very open ended with what Mignola set up but as soon as Corben took over it felt like I was reading and looking at one of the not so great Weird Tales stories.

I liked the guys in the bag but that was about it! I thought the art wasn't very good at all and considering Mignola's almost obsessive compulsive nature in regards to his art I am very VERY surprised. Because Mignola tries so hard I have come to expect perfection from Hellboy and the art here was a serious dissapointment. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not ripping on Mignola's work but Corben's which I assume Mignola approved at every stage. I would think that Hellboy would be held to a higher standard but then again Mignola has let people sort of do their own thing with him in the past (Weird Tales) so maybe he's only anal about Hellboy when he is drawing it?

I like the fact that they switched styles when the story changed but I don't think Corben was the best choice. This concept worked much better in The Goon crossover I think. I can think of a number of artists I would have preferred for this switch up. The story I suppose is fine. They told quite a bit of a myth but I don't have any idea how this fits into the big picture so it is hard to really weigh in on it at this point. I'll say this though: I was on the edge of my seat when reading The Island but I actually got sidetracked with something else when reading Makoma. I hope it gets better in issue 2. Is Corben still on for that one or no? I'm assuming he is.

Tad

02-02-2006, 05:52 PM

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not ripping on Mignola's work but Corben's which I assume Mignola approved at every stage. I would think that Hellboy would be held to a higher standard but then again Mignola has let people sort of do their own thing with him in the past (Weird Tales) so maybe he's only anal about Hellboy when he is drawing it?

I think both Mike and Scott hold Corben in very high regard so I doubt he gave him any direction at all. I know he was very pleased as the pages came back.

Corben holds a huge position in fantasy art in the late seventies (at least that's when I remember him) but any strong style can turn off as many as it excites. Mike falls into that category too. Plenty of people want him to return to his old rendered style.

But for me the story shown through fine.

Neil Hill

02-02-2006, 06:07 PM

Mist the Soul-Gatherer

02-02-2006, 10:32 PM

AI think both Mike and Scott hold Corben in very high regard so I doubt he gave him any direction at all. I know he was very pleased as the pages came back.

Corben holds a huge position in fantasy art in the late seventies (at least that's when I remember him) but any strong style can turn off as many as it excites. Mike falls into that category too. Plenty of people want him to return to his old rendered style.

But for me the story shown through fine.

And shone through, too. Tad's got it right again. Corben had a smash hit in the seventies breaking the Disney Ceiling with the first "adult"(today PG 13) animated sci-fantasy film, "Heavy Metal", a fabulous collection of short stories taken from Heavy Metal Magazine. A lot of the humor in the film is similar to Makoma, and to the early Hellboy Universe. One of the premium channels-might be Showtime or Starz- started playing it in January, out of the blue. It's still as great as I remember it from those hazy days. If you can't catch it on TV, your local video store may have it. It's definately worth a rent.
Oh yeah, those guys in the bag are priceless-even funnier as HB's "helpers." And as Tad said, the story's terrific.
H

Myron L

02-03-2006, 04:56 AM

I think both Mike and Scott hold Corben in very high regard so I doubt he gave him any direction at all. I know he was very pleased as the pages came back.

Corben holds a huge position in fantasy art in the late seventies (at least that's when I remember him) but any strong style can turn off as many as it excites. Mike falls into that category too. Plenty of people want him to return to his old rendered style.

But for me the story shown through fine.

Well put, Tad. Its great that all can freely express opinions here, and have intelligent discussion without it degenerating into a mud-slinging fest (well, MOST of the time, hehehehe). Agree to disagree. As with all other Hellboy stuff, I bet with re-reads, what you dislike will grow on you...have another dose !
;)

Hellcow

02-03-2006, 06:10 AM

I'm as big a Hellboy fan as anyone else around here but I don't always love what gets put out. I disliked this issue. I've been looking forward to it since the cover art was shown off and the story started off on a high night, very open ended with what Mignola set up but as soon as Corben took over it felt like I was reading and looking at one of the not so great Weird Tales stories.

Well, its nice to know I'm not alone. When I keep reading post after post and thread after thread of gushing "Mignola can do no wrong..." type statements, I start to feel like I'm the only one not liking something. First couple of Mignola pages, I was thinking this is promising. Next couple, I'm thinking, wow, this is going to be great, then the art work changes (I can live with the change, even though I don't love it), but to me it felt like the writing started going down hill from this point onwards too. It felt dull, ho hum, and the staging of the action was less than inspired. Wow, what a dissapointment to me. I guess I'll read the Island again for that REAL Mignola feeling that I crave so much.

Give it a few years and I don't think anyone will even remember this story. My brain is already trying to wipe it!

For all of you that love it. Lucky you. I'll just have to disagree on this one.

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 08:32 AM

I felt that Mignola's pages made up for Corbans. The first 4, was it 4 pages Mgnola did, was great. His style shown through beautify. As for me, I’m not a Corban fan. Just like I’m not an Ed McGuinness fan. I respect what they do; it just isn’t what I like. But, if Mignola felt he's the best choice for the story, I'll go with it. I'll read it. I'll (probably) like it, but it won’t be my favorite.

I am one of those, if it has to do with Hellboy's life, it has to be done by Mignola. The only problem with me feeling like that is, Mignola doesn’t feel that way. He said that he wanted to take the character back to stories like The Corpse. Just stories. It doesn’t have to go into Beast of the Apoc. all the time. And I think that’s what he's doing. Kind of even giving a chance for new readers to step in. I mean stepping in on the Island as a new reader? No way.

But look at it from a business stand point. Corban has a huge underground following, or so my local comic store owner tells me. He picked up this issue of Hellboy, his first issue of Hellboy because Corban drew in it. Why wouldn’t they try an artist like this? Were obsessed with Mignola's art, others are obsessed with Corbans art. Think of the new readers it could bring in. Smart move on their part.

All in all I liked it. Good story. I love the giants, how they shrink down and go in a bad. How he had made a separate holder for the last giant.

Sorry to go on a rant here ("what the hell does rant mean?"). Im still unsure of what I read I guess. But hey. There's always . . . no wait, there is no just Mignola book coming out

hellboyone

02-03-2006, 08:53 AM

Give it a few years and I don't think anyone will even remember this story. My brain is already trying to wipe it!

I've already re-read it twice! I'll say to you, give it a few years and maybe it'll grow on you! :)

R.

Gary_B

02-03-2006, 08:53 AM

I think the way Corben was brought in to this story worked well. Dreams and flash backs allow for this kind of collaboration. Just about every person posting on this forum is bound to be disappointed when Mignola isn't drawing his Hellboy stories because we're all fans. I enjoyed the whole story but, hey, I'm a Mignola fan and my favourite pages were drawn by him. The talking mummy was awesome. It’s so cool that Hellboy can talk to the dead sometimes.

I read the Dark Horse preview pages on all the up-coming Hellboy and BPRD stuff and don't usually find that it spoils the story for me. This time was kind of an exception because the preview got me thinking that we would see more of young Hellboy. I was disappointed when they described him emerging from the deep dark pool all grown up. He was so cute as a little demon.

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 09:37 AM

Ya know, at first I was like "were (as a collective whole of Mignola fans) are being too critical". No, I dont think we are. What weve had in the past is Mignola doing Hellboy, and everyone else doind Weird Tales. Thats what we were tought, if you will. Be now, its Hellboy, but its not Mignola. Not Mignola doing a non Weird Tales? It just doesnt feel right. Thats it. What I want, at least, is Hellboy to be Mignola. Weird Tales to be everyone else.

Thats my opinion. I want another 6 issue series of Hellboy. I want it all drawn by Mignola. Is this too much to ask?

Ken O

02-03-2006, 09:39 AM

I think this is the most fun I've had reading Hellboy in awhile. While I love learning his backstory, it gets a little heavy. Taking a walk through another folktale and letting Hellboy smash some monsters just reminded me why I love the big red guy. Great job all around.

Petersen

02-03-2006, 09:49 AM

Truely enjoyed Mignola's pages. I wholeheartedly 2nd Tad's Explorer's club series idea (infact, I had a warehouse of artifacts with an ASoH body planned for my fan-HB story)

I was unfamiliar with Corben's work 'till this piont. I agree that it was uneven. There were dynamite pages and panels and some duds. The panel of HB at the fireside was horrible. The creepy natives were really well drawn with a unique style. Dave's colors really added to the feel of the story and I think corben + stewart is a good pairing. I was disapointed with a few of Dave's coices (particularly a flat maroon for the negative silhouette of HB as he is emerging from the trees).

I'm looking forward to issue 2!

ps there is nothing wrong with wanting all mignola Hellboy, the problem is then in expecting it to be so

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 09:54 AM

For me the artwork is a big deal. I can't stand poorly drawn comics. I've made the mistake a few times in the past of buying comics because of the cover art and not flipping through them first. This was back in the day when I bought comics every now and then just to buy a comic. Mignola has a weird style but I love it because he takes so much time when he does it. Corben's work on Makoma just felt sloppy to me. Kind of goofy and not what I expect from a Hellboy comic. If Mignola is happy with Corben's work: well awesome for Mignola, I'm glad he had a great experience doing it. But I, personally, don't feel the art lived up to the standards I have for Hellboy.

I was on and off for some of the Weird Tales. Some I loved and some I hated so for me it isn't a case of not liking Makoma because it wasn't Mignola but because it wasn't good enough. The new guy doing the art for Hellboy in the future (I think we've seen 2 pages or so) I think does an awesome job but I can see people not liking it. Everyone has their tastes but it feels like he is really taking the time and putting the detail into it that it deserves. The Corben sequence in Makoma looked sort of cartoony to me.

Hellcow, it's great to hear someone else agree with me because it really feels like "Mignola can do no wrong..." is prevalent here whenever new issues are released. I love Hellboy but I'm also fairly critical of it when it doesn't live up to my expectations which is indirectly a compliment to Hellboy because I never would have had those high standards if Mignola didn't set the bar so high.

Other than just liking Corben, can someone give me a definitive reason (for my own curiosity) why they thought the artwork was good and fir the story well? I mentioned above why I thought it didn't but I'm curious aside from simple opinion why one would argue the other side. There is a lot of "I loved it!" but not as much "I loved it because...!" so could someone fill that in for me?

Petersen

02-03-2006, 10:15 AM

really feels like "Mignola can do no wrong..." is prevalent here
well is is a fan base that is mainly here because of the love of Mignola's work...
However, I have a different view of it. I try to judge Mignola not as some comics god, but as a man. I hold him to human standards. I don't expect him to draw everything perfectly (although he rarely disapoints) and I don't expect him to be a slave to drawing Hellboy. I know I get tired of drawing the same things and like to switch gears...I certainly can't begrudge him the same feeling after 10 years! Of course I want more Mignola Hellboy, but really I just want more of his artwork out there, so if he's breaking to work on other things or to recharge the batteries..cool!

Corben's work was a good fit because it was otherworldly. Hellboy is dreaming himself into a folktale told by a mummy....Corben had really cool inking textures on the ground, hair, peoples faces that made the story within a story aspect very real. His odd proportions also made the funny parts mor comedic than if Mignola had drawn them (wether that is good or bad is up for debate, but as everyone is pretty happy with the lighter feel and humor of the guys in the bag, I'd say "good thing")

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 10:27 AM

Other than just liking Corben, can someone give me a definitive reason (for my own curiosity) why they thought the artwork was good and fir the story well? I mentioned above why I thought it didn't but I'm curious aside from simple opinion why one would argue the other side. There is a lot of "I loved it!" but not as much "I loved it because...!" so could someone fill that in for me?
The color. The coloring was great. I mean, the story reminded me of the first time I read the Corpse. The pig monster HB fought, I was like "WOW, where the hell does this come from?" I grew up X titles. So this was new. and now, even not liking Corbens work, I loved it. The monsters. The, them shrinking down.

I love it because its different than everything out there. I still am an adamant X reader. But this, this is something that defines me as a geek.

Mike Cross

02-03-2006, 10:38 AM

My same comment from the chat room:
"i just think people need to be satisfied with what output we are getting, remember we are formerly used to 1 or 2 HB related issues a year, circa 2000, but now with BPRD we get almost a new story per month, not too shabby"

If Mike decides to draw Hellboy, awesome..if he decides to write and let someone else handle the chores, that's great too. The creator of the property is still 100 % involved..it could be worse, at least we are not getting the Wizard hot writer of the month to handle the character we all like.

InAdia

02-03-2006, 10:42 AM

Funny how it takes longer to read soem people's critical analysis of Makoma than it is to read the actual comic. Artwork was fine by me. I don't mind if someone else draws hellboy as long as it isn't any of the artists that worked on 30 days of night.

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 10:43 AM

well is is a fan base that is mainly here because of the love of Mignola's work...

I love Mignola and Hellboy but I don't always like it so that argument doesn't really hold
up.

However, I have a different view of it. I try to judge Mignola not as some comics god, but as a man. I hold him to human standards. I don't expect him to draw everything perfectly (although he rarely disapoints) and I don't expect him to be a slave to drawing Hellboy. I know I get tired of drawing the same things and like to switch gears...I certainly can't begrudge him the same feeling after 10 years! Of course I want more Mignola Hellboy, but really I just want more of his artwork out there, so if he's breaking to work on other things or to recharge the batteries..cool!

I'm not saying he should be drawing Hellboy 24/7 so I'm not sure where your comment comes from exactly. I'm saying that because he is such a great artist and storyteller 95% of the time that when something he does doesn't hit a home run for me it really stands out. I'm pretty happy with anything Mignola works on these days. I mean, he got me to like Batman and that is saying something...

Corben's work was a good fit because it was otherworldly. Hellboy is dreaming himself into a folktale told by a mummy....Corben had really cool inking textures on the ground, hair, peoples faces that made the story within a story aspect very real. His odd proportions also made the funny parts mor comedic than if Mignola had drawn them (wether that is good or bad is up for debate, but as everyone is pretty happy with the lighter feel and humor of the guys in the bag, I'd say "good thing")

As I said before (in my first post on the subject...) that I think the change of style was great but that Corben's work doesn't seem to really fit. It felt awkward at first. I keep thinking of The Goon crossover and that was almost seamless, I actually read a page of Powell's work before noticing the change in art. It transitioned well and didn't feel abrupt like Makoma did (for me anyway). Though I agree with ADamUnRama, the coloring was fine. I don't really have any issues with that.

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 10:46 AM

I don't mind if someone else draws hellboy as long as it isn't any of the artists that worked on 30 days of night.

Amen to that!

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 11:10 AM

Eh.

I grew up, much like Rick it seems, loving Corben's work in Heavy Metal, hiding the issues in my little secret cubby so my mom wouldn't find them and rush me off to see the priest to confess or something. It's funny, because with this issue of HB I had a great sense of nostalgia, but didn't really get much from the story other than that.

But honestly, I knew from the get go that this was set in the past, was only going to have a handful of Mignola pages (which I'm so thankful for, that being maybe a little disappointed with the rest is rendered moot!), and wasn't necessarily going to move HB's life forward in any way. No big deal. Now, when Darkness Calls hits the shelves, that will be a different story and like everyone else here, I am very eagerly awaiting September.

And yes, Corben had a few awkward pages. I have to say I'm in complete agreement with Petersen in my view of Mignola the person and not the demi-god. I've matured in my tastes and expectations from the people I admire, allowing them to make the choices they make because it's all a part of the larger human experience and pursuing our dreams. I've never been prouder than Mike than I am right now. I used to have one of the louder voices when it came to "if Mignola quits Hellboy, then that's when I quit Hellboy". Well, this is just no longer the case.

Sure, I no longer look at Corben's work with the same sense of awe, but there are many artists who have lost favor with my evolving sensibilities. You should see the look on people's faces when I tell them I don't care for Jim Lee's work anymore.

Just my couple o' pennies.

hellboyone

02-03-2006, 11:20 AM

I grew up, much like Rick it seems, loving Corben's work in Heavy Metal, hiding the issues in my little secret cubby so my mom wouldn't find them and rush me off to see the priest to confess or something. It's funny, because with this issue of HB I had a great sense of nostalgia, but didn't really get much from the story other than that...

Sure, I no longer look at Corben's work with the same sense of awe, but there are many artists who have lost favor with my evolving sensibilities. You should see the look on people's faces when I tell them I don't care for Jim Lee's work anymore.

I know what you mean. Although most of the people I know who enjoy Jim Lee's work never read his best work (his run on Uncanny X-Men) and are far younger than I am (by at least 8 years).

The Makoma story itself I enjoyed beyond just liking Corben. BPRD overall is a really heavy storyline....uncharacteristically heavy for the Hellboy universe (especially now). Even in HB's more serious stories he's cursing at demons and gods like they were the asshole kids that won't get off his lawn. We finally got some of what makes the best Hellboy stories so appealing: a combination of a smaller story, Hellboy's humorous dialogue with monsters, and a great secondary cast of characters.

I bet the people here who didn't think the story was anything special would be flipping their kilts about it if Mignola had drawn the entire issue. Just my theory...

R.

Petersen

02-03-2006, 11:29 AM

I love Mignola and Hellboy but I don't always like it so that argument doesn't really hold
up.
You were wondering where all the mignola loyalty comes from...I'm telling you that 90% of this board is made of people who had that loyalty before they joined the board. It's like hitting a political party's convention and wondering why they all have similar ideals.

I'm not saying he should be drawing Hellboy 24/7 so I'm not sure where your comment comes from exactly.

You were commenting on how the work fell short and how you want a book drawn by Mignola...well my response is that it isn't going to happen right now. and if you are complaining about the "Mignola can do no wrong" vibe, then you must feel he did something wrong...

I think the change of style was great but that Corben's work doesn't seem to really fit.
so your gripe is that the wrong artist was chosen? Corben's work doesn't fit with what? Hellboy in general?, this story?, Mignola's intro? can you give me a definitive reason? There's nothing wrong with expressing disappointment...just do so by expressing opinions fully

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 11:36 AM

I know what you mean. Although most of the people I know who enjoy Jim Lee's work never read his best work (his run on Uncanny X-Men) and are far younger than I am (by at least 8 years).
Yeah, that was the Lee that really did it for me. Mind blowing!

The Makoma story itself I enjoyed beyond just liking Corben. BPRD overall is a really heavy storyline....uncharacteristically heavy for the Hellboy universe (especially now). Even in HB's more serious stories he's cursing at demons and gods like they were the asshole kids that won't get off his lawn. We finally got some of what makes the best Hellboy stories so appealing: a combination of a smaller story, Hellboy's humorous dialogue with monsters, and a great secondary cast of characters.

I bet the people here who didn't think the story was anything special would be flipping their kilts about it if Mignola had drawn the entire issue. Just my theory...
I will say I'm in complete agreement with you. I think because I went into this issue with less than my usual excitement will be a good thing a little down the line. After a few reads I'm sure this will be a much more enjoyable read for me. And just to clarify, I'm not complaing about this issue at all. The cover alone is so amazing, probably my all time favorite. Just awaiting Darkness Calls I guess, so this feels somewhat like just biding my time.

Hope you don't mind, Rick - see my new signature below.

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 11:38 AM

You should see the look on people's faces when I tell them I don't care for Jim Lee's work anymore.

Haha, yea Jim Lee. The symble on Batman's chest sucks.

Guys, friends, girls, people of all, lets just agree to disagree. We got a new Hellboy story, lets just be happy. I am. Hell if I had things my way, Mignola would be my neighbor and he and Bendis would write and draw stories all day. But thats why Im not president of the univers . . . yet.

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 11:42 AM

Remember me when you need a running mate!

And I'm not sure what the overall opinion of Bendis is on this board (I only read his Powers and did read his Daredevil), but he mentioned recently when asked what artists he would like to work with that Mignola was his #1 pick.

Pretty cool.

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 11:45 AM

AND THIS SHALL BE OUR FLAG!!!
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/theMignolaCollection/Non%20Mignola/CthulhuforPrez.jpg

Our slogan will be "No more crappy movies" We'll have to say 'yes' to every movie that goes into production.

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 11:47 AM

I almost forgot!

I think my favorite part of this entire issue was Scott's little pre-announcement in the lettercol about this very possibly being the year of the HELLBOY HARDCOVERS!

Now how cool is that?

:D

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 11:58 AM

You were wondering where all the mignola loyalty comes from...I'm telling you that 90% of this board is made of people who had that loyalty before they joined the board. It's like hitting a political party's convention and wondering why they all have similar ideals.

I wasn't wondering where the Mignola loyalty comes from. This is obviously a message board devoted to him. It can be hard being a lone dissenter at times though.

You were commenting on how the work fell short and how you want a book drawn by Mignola...well my response is that it isn't going to happen right now. and if you are complaining about the "Mignola can do no wrong" vibe, then you must feel he did something wrong...

what I meant was that I want a book preferably drawn by Mike and if not that then something that stands up the same caliber. "Mignola can do no wrong" really refers to Corben's aspect of this issue but Mike decided to work with him so I would place some of the blame on him as well. I think you are being too literal with my interpretation of that statement. Also, I'm not so much complaining as I am reviewing the issue. There is a difference.

so your gripe is that the wrong artist was chosen? Corben's work doesn't fit with what? Hellboy in general?, this story?, Mignola's intro? can you give me a definitive reason? There's nothing wrong with expressing disappointment...just do so by expressing opinions fully

I think I made it clear in my last two posts that yes, the wrong artist was chosen. Hellboy has an often dark feeling. Stark color with a lot of black. Everything feels kind of old, perhaps a little dusty and the detail is withheld from the comic because that is Mignola's style. But he spends a lot of time thinking it all out and structuring each frame so it isn't rushed. Corben's work in Makoma didn't fit this description at all. The style is more detailed than Mignola but it didn't seem as painstakingly attentive. Proportions were off and characters just looked odd. The emotion of Hellboy just wasn't there in the work. It's difficult to gauge just how off the Corben art is because it IS a dream sequence, I will grant you that. But I don't see how you can argue that his style captures any aspects of Hellboy other than the fact that Hellboy is in it. I like my hellboy drawn seriously even if Mignola isn't doing it. Makoma felt sort of cheesy or cartoony to me and I don't think that fits the comic. I liked Mignola's intro and the story was decent enough but the change to Corben was noticeable and uncomfortable for me as a reader. Would you like to be more detailed or does that suffice?

Petersen

02-03-2006, 01:09 PM

Would you like to be more detailed or does that suffice?

Your detailed accounts of what bothered you do a good job of expressing your opinion.

I need to review the comic again and pick out panels I like and feel really capture Hellboy and those that don't (because I agree that some of the pages weren't as good as others). I understand what you mean about jarring artists changes...while this one didn't bother me (in fact I liked the switch from reality to story) There have been multiple comics I practicly threw down in disgust when an artists pages suddenly stopped mid-story. Most noteably was Travis' most recent wildcats work (2.0 I think it's called now?) I love travis' stuff but that switch to whomever the fill-in was was horrible. I buy comics for art 1st and story 2nd. I judge the art from the start.

I follow artists rather than books (Mignola, Art Adams, Travis). I loved Jim Lee's work (and guilty as charged Rick...my Lee love is later than yours) now he doesn't do much for me....but when he left X-Men I threw a teenage hissyfit! I refused to buyinto either this "wildcats junk" or "the psudo-jim" replacement on x-men. But after the 1st issue of wildcats came out, I was hooked and only for the art really. I guess my rambling is to say I sympathise with being frustrated with artists changing on books and even not producing work (hell look at art adams and Travis....I WISH they had things out I could buy)

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 01:19 PM

Most noteably was Travis' most recent wildcats work (2.0 I think it's called now?) I love travis' stuff but that switch to whomever the fill-in was was horrible.
I think it was Ryan Benjamin? And yes, that was a terrible switch. Especially with Travis returning from time to time at odd intervals, and sometimes only doing a handful of pages. Charest is probably my 2nd favorite artist just behind Mignola. Wish he was doing something. I'd love to have seem him do a Weird Tales story!

Neil Hill

02-03-2006, 01:26 PM

I think I made it clear in my last two posts that yes, the wrong artist was chosen. Hellboy has an often dark feeling. Stark color with a lot of black. Everything feels kind of old, perhaps a little dusty and the detail is withheld from the comic because that is Mignola's style. But he spends a lot of time thinking it all out and structuring each frame so it isn't rushed. Corben's work in Makoma didn't fit this description at all. The style is more detailed than Mignola but it didn't seem as painstakingly attentive. Proportions were off and characters just looked odd. The emotion of Hellboy just wasn't there in the work. It's difficult to gauge just how off the Corben art is because it IS a dream sequence, I will grant you that. But I don't see how you can argue that his style captures any aspects of Hellboy other than the fact that Hellboy is in it. I like my hellboy drawn seriously even if Mignola isn't doing it. Makoma felt sort of cheesy or cartoony to me and I don't think that fits the comic. I liked Mignola's intro and the story was decent enough but the change to Corben was noticeable and uncomfortable for me as a reader. Would you like to be more detailed or does that suffice?

I think Corben's stuff is deliberately "wonky" at times in an on purpose kind of way. Granted, it could be like later years Wrightson, where the detail and quality aren't quite what they used to be in say his Swamp Thing era years, but I don't know enough about Corben at this point in his career to confirm that for sure. I have seen Corben draw hyper realistic anatomy, so I more than give him the benefit of the doubt if a head isn't quite in proportion in every shot, etc. I think after the career this guy's had, he deserves a little slack and major amounts of respect.

I'm a bit confused by your comments regarding Hellboy not being drawn "seriously: by Corben though. The whole feel of the Makoma issue was a dalience in fairytale and myth, yet had a very "comic" sort of feel to the storyline and actions being performed by Hellboy (bonking creatures on the head with the RHOD). Therefore, this leaves me scratching my head about this point regarding style that you're trying to get across here.

Neil Hill

02-03-2006, 01:30 PM

I think it was Ryan Benjamin? And yes, that was a terrible switch. Especially with Travis returning from time to time at odd intervals, and sometimes only doing a handful of pages. Charest is probably my 2nd favorite artist just behind Mignola. Wish he was doing something. I'd love to have seem him do a Weird Tales story!

Travis may be the second coming to some and an absolutely SUPERB illustrator to be sure, but that boy is slower than molasses running up hill during an East Coast snow storm when it comes to cranking out pages. In other words, I think Wildstorm did the best they could in keeping Travis' artwork out there (what little of it he was completing on a monthly basis) and still get the book out on time.

It's rarely a good thing when the artist is switched mid-issue, however, that is one good reason why most comics come unbagged when purchased off the stand. Meaning, you can look through the comic and make sure nothing really odd or jarring jumps out at you before you purchase it .

Tad

02-03-2006, 02:02 PM

I'm a bit confused by your comments regarding Hellboy not being drawn "seriously: by Corben though. The whole feel of the Makoma issue was a dalience in fairytale and myth, yet had a very "comic" sort of feel to the storyline and actions being performed by Hellboy (bonking creatures on the head with the RHOD). Therefore, this leaves me scratching my head about this point regarding style that you're trying to get across here.

Just look at Hellboy in The Corpse. Stark landscapes, funny conversations, "It's my arm!!!!" literally conversing with faeries yet treated "seriously." It's hard to use words to describe a feeling that art gives but I think this is what he meant.

Forgive me for putting words in your mouth, DannyBoy.

Petersen

02-03-2006, 02:25 PM

I think Wildstorm did the best they could in keeping Travis' artwork out there ...
It's rarely a good thing when the artist is switched mid-issue, however, that is one good reason why most comics come unbagged when purchased off the stand. Meaning, you can look through the comic and make sure nothing really odd or jarring jumps out at you before you purchase it .

I don't blame wildstorm at all. There were a few issues where I didn't do enough flipping but saw Travis interiors and bought it. I also found issues that I knew were only partly Travis and just had to buy it anyhow....I know...I had the free will no to, but looking at 6 pages of Travis and 0 pages of travis, I opted for 6.

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 02:25 PM

Jan Bentzen

02-03-2006, 02:32 PM

Makoma # 1 hasn´t reached the shores of Denmark yet. Is it # 25 in the Hellboy series ???

- Jan

kid cthulhu

02-03-2006, 02:34 PM

That it is, sir.

ADamUnRama

02-03-2006, 03:08 PM

Its #25? See I couldnt find the "Number 25 in a series" anywhere in it. Maybe I mist it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

JAN DONT LISTEN TO US. Its a great issue. You'll enjoy it.

Jan Bentzen

02-03-2006, 03:30 PM

Adam - You know I´ll buy it - but Corben is not one of my favorites, so I don´t have high expectations (sp?) - How many pages of pure Mignola can I look forward to ??

- Jan

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 04:55 PM

9, including the cover and title page

Neil Hill

02-03-2006, 05:21 PM

I know...I had the free will no to, but looking at 6 pages of Travis and 0 pages of travis, I opted for 6.

:D I feel ya' brother. I certainly do.

Neil Hill

02-03-2006, 05:23 PM

Tad, it's fine.

It can be hard to put the emotions and feelings one gets from an artist into words but your example of The Corpse really illustrates my point. It is Hellboy through and through and it has some very funny moments but it never turns into slap-stick. Or Pancakes - hilarious but the tone still manages to be serious.

Did you feel that Makoma descended into slapstick? Personally, I felt it was right on par with Corpse and similarly paced stories. Also, keep in mind that things may not get serious (if they are even intended to) until issue 2. I completely underestimated what Mignola had in mind with The Island based simply on what happened in issue 1. Perhaps issue 2 of Makoma will be a similar experience. Then again, perhaps not. :rolleyes:

hellboyone

02-03-2006, 06:05 PM

Its #25? See I couldnt find the "Number 25 in a series" anywhere in it.

On the inside front cover, there's a giant 25 next to the word Hellboy up top. Kinda hard to see.

David: Take a gander at those old Jim Lee Wildcats issues now. The layouts are terrible...a shadow of his former self. The book didn't start cookin' until James Robinson and Alan Moore got ahold of it (and it didn't hurt that Charest drew a few of those).

R.

Neil Hill

02-03-2006, 07:24 PM

On the inside front cover, there's a giant 25 next to the word Hellboy up top. Kinda hard to see.

David: Take a gander at those old Jim Lee Wildcats issues now. The layouts are terrible...a shadow of his former self. The book didn't start cookin' until James Robinson and Alan Moore got ahold of it (and it didn't hurt that Charest drew a few of those).

R.

Yes, but those early WildCats issues (by Jim Lee) are absolutely great for the cheese factor. :) Completely unintelligible writing by Brandon Choi, but personally I liked the Jim Lee artwork very much. The layouts may have been terrible, but my 19 yr old self (or so) thought Jim Lee just about walked on water back in those days.

Angilas-Man

02-03-2006, 07:31 PM

Ah, people upset because Makoma isn't "pure Mignola" well, that's to be expected. Personally I excepted that fact the moment I heard about "a Hellboy story written by Mignola and drawn by comic legend Richard Corben." Lighten up, its Mignola giving props to a guy he respects. He wasn't picked because his style matched the "Hellboy look" like we'll get in Darkness Calls.

Anyway, I thought it was wonderfull. Corben, after the first two pages or so (in which HB was a little off), really gets a handle on drawing Hellboy. For some reason his style reminds me of lavish illustrations in old childrens books about animals and nature (maybe it's just the fact it's set in Africa, but thats the kind of warm feeling I get from Corben's art in this issue).

...and I was pleasently suprised, and I mean really suprised, by how much Mignola art there was in this issue. 7 pages and the cover, all gorgeous.

And last, but certainly, certainly not least; the story. I've always loved the Hellboy stories that feel like myths and folktales. I've loved these big, gothic styled adventures, but I've always thought that those short stories and some scenes from longer tales that captured the feel of old legends were brilliant and I've always thought Mignola should do more of that, and he has, in a big way. Great stuff, and although the story is only half done issue one is so satisfying on it's own that it doesn't generate to much of a "grrrrrr.... cliffhanger. I wanna know what happens now!"- kinda feeling, not that I don't eagerly anticipate issue 2.

In short, we'd all like Mignola to do everything, but he's doin' a whole heck of alot and releasing wonderful HB universe tales in impressive number. So I'm happy.

"That you making all the noise?"

Gary_B

02-03-2006, 07:59 PM

I just spent a few minutes enjoying the cover of the new Makoma comic. It's stunning and may be one of the best covers I've seen on a comic. One question, though....

What is the highly patterned shape behind the statuary?

http://badelements.net/hellboycover.jpg

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 08:34 PM

Pottery shards I believe.

DannyBoy7783

02-03-2006, 08:37 PM

Duncan Fegredo

02-04-2006, 04:16 AM

Hey,

I have to say this thread has made for interesting reading.

I really enjoyed Makoma,both story and art- likening its tone to The Corpse is fair, damning with no faint praise there I think.

I too was curious as to how Richard Corben would gel with Hellboy, obviously I know my own work will come under scrutiny for the same reasons!

I have to say I thought it worked very well. Mike's voice comes over as clear as ever, always willing to undercut his serious tone with humour. And the art works in concert with the writing, Corben is a great cartoonist capable of injecting great humour and life into his art. For all the gothic trappings of Mike M's art he is also a terrific cartoonist, something that I think people often forget!

I can't wait for the second part. Till then, back to the drawing board...

Duncan

Myron L

02-04-2006, 04:23 AM

Duncan Fegredo

02-04-2006, 04:29 AM

Well said !!! Thanks for dropping by...don't worry...you'll get the same treatment when its your turn !
;)

........... Ouch!

Mike Cross

02-04-2006, 04:56 AM

A little OT, but Duncan, I just noticed the Spider-Man pic you did for the first DVD and it looked great..keep up that awesome work...this board is an ornery lot, but for the most part, we're ok.

Duncan Fegredo

02-04-2006, 05:18 AM

A little OT, but Duncan, I just noticed the Spider-Man pic you did for the first DVD and it looked great..keep up that awesome work...this board is an ornery lot, but for the most part, we're ok.

Thanks, that was a lot of fun- in fact it was an excuse to have a play around with Painter, digital painting software. Shame the gallery section wasn't anamorphic.

Evry body here seems just fine, unlike some boards I could mention... scary!

-Duncan

Hellcow

02-04-2006, 08:51 AM

Guess that leaves me the ONLY one who thinks Mignola's writing doesn't cut it on this one.

Neil Hill

02-04-2006, 11:11 AM

Thanks, that was a lot of fun- in fact it was an excuse to have a play around with Painter, digital painting software. Shame the gallery section wasn't anamorphic.

Evry body here seems just fine, unlike some boards I could mention... scary!

-Duncan

I wouldn't worry too much about how well your artwork on Hellboy will be received. At first some people will whine about how different it is from Mike's stuff and how much they miss Mike's interpretations of the characters. Then after awhile people (probably the same people) will come around and realize that they've loved your artwork from the beginning and can't say enough great things about you! :)

Personally, I've loved your work for years (even Jay and Silent Bob) and hope that you install quite a bit of your own unique artistic "voice" in your Hellboy comics, rather than feel subconsciously that you need to live up to fan expectations by not making the change from Mike to you a very smooth transition. In other words, eventually we'll all love you anyway, so just be yourself from the start! :D

Neil Hill

02-04-2006, 11:13 AM

Guess that leaves me the ONLY one who thinks Mignola's writing doesn't cut it on this one.

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but I completely disagree on every level. You didn't really quantify WHY you don't think his writing cuts it here, so I won't elaborate regarding my opinion, but I did just want to mention that I disagree. :D

hellboyone

02-04-2006, 12:12 PM

Yes, but those early WildCats issues (by Jim Lee) are absolutely great for the cheese factor. :) Completely unintelligible writing by Brandon Choi, but personally I liked the Jim Lee artwork very much. The layouts may have been terrible, but my 19 yr old self (or so) thought Jim Lee just about walked on water back in those days.

Eh...ALL the Image books back then were cheesy. I don't recall a single one of them being anying more than barely readable. And I bought all those Wildcats issues, too. But I was hoping it would get better. And it didn't. But back then I was far less selective about what I bought.

Maija

02-04-2006, 12:39 PM

DannyBoy7783

02-04-2006, 02:42 PM

I won't lie Ruta, that was one of the funniest posts I have seen at this board yet. :)

p.s. Thanks for finally giving me something worthy of putting in my Sig.

Neil Hill

02-04-2006, 04:06 PM

Here's a different note of dissent: I find the cover for this book, as well as the cover for Universal Machine #2, to be the weakest covers from Mignola in a long while. Although I enjoy these kinds of still life/collage compositions simply as compositions, and the execution of the artwork is faultless, they are narrative dead-ends. They don't get me interested in the story. They do not beg the question "Why?"

The covers for Third Wish and The Island are fantastic. "Why is Hellboy surrounded by lions?" "Why is Hellboy chained up at the bottom of the ocean?" "GOOD GOD, WHY DOES HELLBOY HAVE NO HEART AND LOOK DEAD?!" "HOLY HELL, WHY T.F. IS HE ALL COVERED IN STARFISH?!!! AAA!!"

Those covers have me just dying to know the story behind them.

The "still life" covers, on the other hand, can only make me ask questions that make me sound like Brick Tamland in Anchorman:

"Why... statue?"
"Why... rhinoceros?"
"Why... jaguar?"
"Ruta, are you just looking at things in the picture and asking why?"
"Why statue!"
"Do you really want to know why, or are you just saying it because you saw it?"
"Why statue! Why statue!"

Seriously, these covers do not excite me.

But I would not say "no" if someone were to give one of them to me as a gift.

As was Enron's motto when they were still a publicly traded company:

"ask why" :)

I personally completely disagree. Both covers speak to me directly about very vital questions, as I'm able to tie them in directly with the compositional elements throughout.

UM #1- Why is Roger's corpse set in front of an old castle, with the sun and moon motif from the same location where Roger was first discovered? Does this mean that the BPRD are going to go back to ground zero where Roger's body was first found and try to find some lost bit of arcane knowledge that will somehow revive him?

UM #2- What do the jungle or big cats have to do with Daimio? Are they somehow a part of his origin? Did Daimio's death have something to do with large cats, the jungle, or tropical areas of the world? The color red alone for me hints at a deep melancholy, death, or doom surrounding Daimio creatures of the jungle. Especially with how large and imposing that Leopard is behind him. Almost as if it could pounce at any moment and take Daimio apart.

It's reall all in the eyes of the beholder, so take my opinions for what they're worth, Ruta.

Poe Ghostal

02-04-2006, 04:37 PM

Maija

02-04-2006, 06:17 PM

You misread my post, Stygian. I was not talking about the cover of UM#1, which I don't mind. I was talking about Makoma #1, and UM#2.

Since my long reply is mostly about the cover of Universal Machine #2 and not Makoma #1 I've moved it over to the Universal Machine #2 thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=2591923#post2591923) just to keep everything neat and tidy.

I don't hate or even strongly dislike the covers. They are attractive pieces of art. But they fail to intrigue me.

hellboyone

02-04-2006, 08:03 PM

I'm a big fan of the seemingly random elements Mignola throws into covers. Many of you know that I've approriated a bit of that in my own work. The fact that the elements on the cover aren't random but actually parts of the story (minor or otherwise) is the important part. And that's the cool thing for me...trying to figure out how big a role that rhino is gonna play or that big ol' jaguar. It's huge on the cover! If it appears in one panel walking by, I'll smile to myself, like I've been tricked by a pal of mine. Or it could be the damn villain of the whole book!

Dat's my take.

R.
(full of chicken pot stickers...mmm..)

Gary_B

02-04-2006, 09:35 PM

On a fairly unrelated note, can anyone tell me the artist who drew the photo of Abe in the circle in the inside back cover of Makoma #1, and where the picture is from? It doesn't look like Mignola or Davis.

That's not a drawing of a photo on the inside back cover; that's a photo. And it's not a photo of Abe; it's a photo of The Rock.

Seriously, though, on the page before that is the Abe-in-a-circle image you are referring to and it looks like a Guy Davis drawing to me.

Maija

02-04-2006, 09:42 PM

I'm a big fan of the seemingly random elements Mignola throws into covers. But he doesn't! Man, from the way he makes the most apparently insignificant things end up signifying within his stories, I would never, ever assume that anything he puts on a cover is random, seemingly or otherwise. I know they signify. They wouldn't be on the cover if they didn't.

The "collage" type image is actually rare in the Mignola library, and usually used on TPBs, which is understandable, since they contain many stories, not just one. They also show up in pin-up form, also understandable— no related story. But they don't show up often on single issues. (http://www.darkhorse.com/search/search.php?viewmode=gallery&sstring=Hellboy&match=any&genre=all&type=comic&startmonth=all&startyear=all&endmonth=all&endyear=all&genre=all)

I really find them less engaging. It's the difference between: here's a lion.

Now... Here's a lion stalking Hellboy! :eek:

Which one's gonna grab me more?

Anyhoo, aparently I suffer a reduced level of enjoyment in a cover if it has no story to it. This makes me a little sad, like I'm a cold-blooded being, missing the ability to respond emotionally to certain things. Apparently I need narrative to get me interested. Or a laser pointer.

Gary_B

02-04-2006, 09:59 PM

But he doesn't! Man, from the way he makes the most apparently insignificant things end up signifying within his stories, I would never, ever assume that anything he puts on a cover is random, seemingly or otherwise. I know they signify. They wouldn't be on the cover if they didn't.

Does that mean that the meaning of the highly patterned shape behind the statuary on the cover of Makoma #1 will be revealed in the next issue?

Maija

02-04-2006, 10:34 PM

....

:eek:

And actually I was hunting around the internet trying to find something when you first brought it up but I came up empty.

Google Image Search needs to be like those tire-tread recognition programs they use on CSI where you just scan in the image and it finds a match. None of this "african circles" "african spirals" "africa carving" "mali carving" "nigeria carving" crap.

Gary_B

02-04-2006, 11:40 PM

Hey, thanks for thinking of me ruta but I can wait for Makoma #2 next month.

Duncan Fegredo

02-05-2006, 12:50 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about how well your artwork on Hellboy will be received. At first some people will whine about how different it is from Mike's stuff and how much they miss Mike's interpretations of the characters. Then after awhile people (probably the same people) will come around and realize that they've loved your artwork from the beginning and can't say enough great things about you! :)

Personally, I've loved your work for years (even Jay and Silent Bob) and hope that you install quite a bit of your own unique artistic "voice" in your Hellboy comics, rather than feel subconsciously that you need to live up to fan expectations by not making the change from Mike to you a very smooth transition. In other words, eventually we'll all love you anyway, so just be yourself from the start! :D

Thank you for that, much appreciated.

-D

Neil Hill

02-05-2006, 08:15 AM

Neil Hill

02-05-2006, 08:19 AM

Thank you for that, much appreciated.

-D

You're very welcome. I'm sure fan response (or fan roasting is probably more appropriate. depending on the situation) is going to be a concern.

We may not all admit it now, but I'm pretty sure we're all happy that your the one on the book!

Maija

02-05-2006, 09:38 AM

I was using the Universal Machine #1 cover as an example Ruta of how seemingly random detritus strewn about on a Mignola cover, is rarely if ever random or meaningless to the overall story. :o Except by your own description there is a readable connection between the elements on the page in UM#1: "Why is Roger's corpse set in front of an old castle, with the sun and moon motif from the same location where Roger was first discovered?"

Why do you think I was okay with that one?

Compare with:

"What do the jungle or big cats have to do with Daimio?"

= "Why... jaguar?"

I don't wildly dislike these covers. They just don't draw me into the story. I'm not trying to encourage others to not be excited by them, which would be silly, I'm explaining why they don't excite me and how I read imagery, which is obviously going to be different from other people.

But why the assumption that I'm reading a collage of significant elements from the story "seemingly" or "random" or "detritus"? Cripes. You're talking to the person who asserted that those friggin' seagulls were more than just friggin' seagulls. ;) :p

DannyBoy7783

02-05-2006, 10:47 AM

I'm fairly positive those "shapes" are designs on broken pottery. So perhaps try "african pottery" :D

Brisco

02-05-2006, 09:41 PM

The Makoma story itself I enjoyed beyond just liking Corben. BPRD overall is a really heavy storyline....uncharacteristically heavy for the Hellboy universe (especially now). Even in HB's more serious stories he's cursing at demons and gods like they were the asshole kids that won't get off his lawn. We finally got some of what makes the best Hellboy stories so appealing: a combination of a smaller story, Hellboy's humorous dialogue with monsters, and a great secondary cast of characters.

I bet the people here who didn't think the story was anything special would be flipping their kilts about it if Mignola had drawn the entire issue. Just my theory...

Rick, I agree completely! Despite his own self-deprecating comments (and even those seem to have at last subsided), Mike Mignola has written enough material now that he can be judged as a writer, and not just as an artist or writer/artist. And, personally, I enjoy Mignola the writer every bit as much as Mignola the artist. True, it's even better when the two are combined, but not necessary. Most of the negative comments here seem to be about the art. What did the people who hated the art think of the STORY? Me, I enjoyed it a HELL of a lot more than The Island. It had all that stuff Rick put his finger on that's been missing (for the most part) from that and from BPRD lately.
Brisco

Neil Hill

02-06-2006, 07:12 AM

Personally, I enjoy Mignola the writer every bit as much as Mignola the artist.

Just to take a small slice of what you said and examine it here for a moment Brisco, I completely agree. It used to be that Mike writing a comic as well as drawing it was an added bonus, however, now I specifically pickup non-Mignola drawn books with him as writer specifically because he does have such an uncanny writing ability. Granted, I'm sure he'd disagree that he's any kind of writer, but I think he's really grown over the last 10 years into a force to be recogned with. His dialogue is whitty, very smart, humourous, self-depcrating, charming, and never takes itself too seriously. He doesn't seem to write because he's trying to be a novelist, but instead writes in such a way that suites the subject matter completely.

Speaking of Mike's writing; I'm looking forward to his short run on Conan. It will be interesting to see how well his writing will carry over to the sword and sorcery genre. I can't imagine it as being anything other than fantastic, but I won't start counting chickens before they've hatched.

ADamUnRama

02-06-2006, 09:17 AM

I re-read the issue, for the 3rd time. And I love the story. Art, eh, but its Mignola through and through

Hellcow

02-07-2006, 05:59 PM

Rick, I agree completely! Despite his own self-deprecating comments (and even those seem to have at last subsided), Mike Mignola has written enough material now that he can be judged as a writer, and not just as an artist or writer/artist. And, personally, I enjoy Mignola the writer every bit as much as Mignola the artist. True, it's even better when the two are combined, but not necessary. Most of the negative comments here seem to be about the art. What did the people who hated the art think of the STORY? Me, I enjoyed it a HELL of a lot more than The Island. It had all that stuff Rick put his finger on that's been missing (for the most part) from that and from BPRD lately.
Brisco

I understand how some of you have been missing the sort of timing and writing elements as what you might find in The Corpse of The Amazing Screw on Head. And while this story is kinda like the above mentioned, I didn't enjoy it nearly as much. For me it feels like a poor derivative of something like The Corpse of the Amazing Screw on Head. I'll give it a proper comparison at some stage, but for now, that's just my gut feeling.

Myron L

02-08-2006, 04:28 AM

Jan Bentzen

02-08-2006, 06:24 AM

I just got Makoma - and I have to say I like Corben´s Hellboy more than I thought I would. BUT the prospect of having Corben in the next Hellboy collection does not thrill me.

- Jan

Neil Hill

02-08-2006, 08:39 AM

The more I look at it, the more I feel like Corben nailed the African parts of the story....it brings me back to reading the old National Geographics as a kid...with the photos of the wizened old tribesmen, the colors of the plains, etc.

Very insightful and quite true. Corben's art vascillates back and forth between realism and more cartoony but in a very organic and unjarring way. I love his work here quite a bit.

Mist the Soul-Gatherer

02-10-2006, 12:16 AM

I re-read the story again ( for the third time) and I picked up on an interesting bit of coolness...the five giants that Hellboy (Makoma) defeats are based on the five original elements of magick...earth, wood, fire, water, and metal (rock)...and I still love the art from both guys...the more I look at it, the more I feel like Corben nailed the African parts of the story....it brings me back to reading the old National Geographics as a kid...with the photos of the wizened old tribesmen, the colors of the plains, etc.
VERY interesting and very insightful, PsychoFyre.
"the five giants that Hellboy (Makoma) defeats are based on the five original elements of magick...earth, wood, fire, water, and metal (rock)"
Even more interesting in light of Scott Allie's comments about what is or isn't revealed in Makoma, below.

"What will Makoma tell you all about Hellboy? Is it another Box Full of Evil, addressing issues central to the core of his character, or is it more like The Dead, which revealed little about our main characters, but gave the involved history of another character altogether? Sometimes even at the end of a story, you might not know what it's said about the greater mythology of Hellboy and his cohorts. Sometimes you have to wait and see how the pieces are picked up later on."

FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ PART I,
BIG SPOILER WARNING!!

As many of us have already said, there do seem to be some similarities in Part I. When Makoma's mother throws him into the crocodile pool, he's a baby, but when he comes out he's fully grown, red and has an iron hammer in his right hand. He has given birth to himself-we've heard that one before. The name "Makoma", He-Who-Is-Greatest-And-Without-Fear, may sound boastful. But from what we now know about the RHoD, it is the most powerful force in existence. He who has it and knows how to use it is greatest and can control the five elements of magic, the lords of Hell and the Ogdru Jihad. The guys in the bag sometimes act like Sir Edward, the Dagdah and Goblin-and now Mohlomi- commenting on the action, as when Makoma (Hellboy) fights the demon.
"Makoma's done it." "He's conquered the demon" "No. "Wait."

We'll all have to wait for Part II to see how much is actually revealed.
The Makoma myth is so well crafted, so delightful and so much fun,
it almost doesn't matter.
H