Should i buy Birthright?

[CAT-DAL]

This one passed me by.What do you guys think,Should i pick it up,is it any
good?





ALL STAR SUPERMAN IS THE DOGS NUTS(that means i like it).

[dancj]

The story's good. The art could be an acquired taste. Sometimes it's quite conventional then suddenly it looks like Mike McMahon's later stuff. Either way I like it.

It's not hugely special, but the price is very good for a 12 issue story.

I say get it

[TheSaltedSuperman]

I picked it all up at half price and wasn't dissapointed like I thought I'd be since I'd heard it pretty much maligned by 75% of the people I talked to.

I enjoyed it for what it was and while some people might not like what it tries to do, I thought it was pretty well written.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Get it.

I liked very much Birthright.

[stealthwise]

At first the art, and then the notion that Post-Crisis Superman needed to be "fixed" annoyed the hell out of me, but then I read the book again and really liked it.

[superman1984]

Its definately worth it! Pick it up...good story

[PatrickG]

I think it reads better as a trade.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I bought it for the art. Leinil Francis Yu is one of the best mainstream artists working today, in my opinion. The story is good too, but of course, it's a classic story.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It tries a little too hard at times to be modern, rather than classic, but its a decent attempt to revamp Superman's origins for today. Waid takes things a little too seriously at times so its a bit too humorless to be the good ripping Superman yarn that Waid desperately wants it to be. It does more right than it does wrong. The art, however, is a very poor match with the character. I love his other stuff, but his style just isn't suited to the character and the Jor-El redesign is wretched.

And there's some wierd bits like Kryptonians being unable to find other intelligent life in the universe that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Luthor, and his revamped origins, are spot on perfect though.

The big battle at the end is a misfire, unfortunately.

But it feels like Superman, just not as much like All Star Superman does. Birthright is missing the sense of whimsy and delight that Morrison's more fantastic and imaginative take have.

[Sean Whitmore]

It tries a little too hard at times to be modern, rather than classic, but its a decent attempt to revamp Superman's origins for today. Waid takes things a little too seriously at times so its a bit too humorless to be the good ripping Superman yarn that Waid desperately wants it to be.


Those are the problems I remember having with it. People fearing and hating Supes is not necessarily a bad Superman story, but it is a bad "first" Superman story.


SEAN

[Lurker]

Yes, you should buy Birthright.

[CAT-DAL]

Overall the majority is to buy this book,so thats what im gonna do.Thanks for the advice people.Boogie on down.

[mohammedali]

It's a good read with good art. I felt it gave Superman more character in terms of his world travels. I also really liked the ending. Brought a tear to my eye *sniff*

[The Mirrorball Man]

It's a good read with good art. I felt it gave Superman more character in terms of his world travels. I also really liked the ending. Brought a tear to my eye *sniff*
Oh yeah, definitely. And it's also one of the first times I bought the whole "Clark Kent is a journalist" idea.

[derrickfish]

I really dig this book. It's completely unnecessary, but a darn good read. I was unsure of the art at first, but it has really grown on me over multiple reads.

And yes, the ending is quite exceptionally emotional.

[Kilgore Trout]

Wow...

Let me say it then:

Save your money.

If you skip BIRTHRIGHT you will miss NOTHING...

Truthfully, I could NEVER get passed the artwork to get to the story... EVERYTHING looked like a buncha over-inked-scratchy-lines...Completely killed it for me...

Well, that and all the contemporary nods, winks, and sledgehammers... The 9/11/2001 references were a big WTF moment... :confused:

I mean, what's the point of a Superman reboot/rewrite/update if your not gonna reboot/rewrite/update EVERYTHING & EVERYONE?!?? Its not Powergirl or Aquaman we're talkin' about here...

Has readership & DC completely given up on the Superman as the FIRST Superhero concept?

[Chris Thomas]

birthright was fantastic. great set-up, perfect characterization of both villian and hero (and supporting cast.) plot moved along nicely. act 4 was perfect and denoument was one of the best ever.

buy it


btw--I liked the art quite a bit.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Has readership & DC completely given up on the Superman as the FIRST Superhero concept?

You might want to check out the newest Superman storyarc running through Action Comics, Superman & Adventures. It is about this very idea.

[Lurker]

Wow...

Let me say it then:

Save your money.

If you skip BIRTHRIGHT you will miss NOTHING...

... but a Damn Good Superman yarn. :p

[Gernot]

Kilgore, I completely understand your concern about Superman's not being the FIRST superhero, but the story is set up in such a way that it'll make more sense as the story gets older.

See, in 5 or 10 years, ALL of DC's heroes will have been around only since 9/11. They will try to reference 9/11 as having taken place right around the time of their origins. Birthright will have those references already in place!

I know it doesn't probably make much sense right now, but it actually WILL.

I completely enjoyed Birthright, too! :)

[dancj]

Has readership & DC completely given up on the Superman as the FIRST Superhero concept?

Well that happenned back with CoIE when they did away with Earth 2. The Golden Age superheroes predated him in current continuity by decades

[CURSD BLADE]

Only two words are needed to answer this thread's question and they are as follows:


Leinil
Yu


That is all. Now stop reading this thread and go get the damn trade!

[botch]

Those are the problems I remember having with it. People fearing and hating Supes is not necessarily a bad Superman story, but it is a bad "first" Superman story.


SEAN

people fearing and hating supes sounds like something that would actually happen. say there were no comic books, some dude comes out, he's an alien, and hes wearing underwear on the outside. damn right people would fear him. thats what i love about the book, he proves himself to humanity who are a pathetic species compared to him(mentally not just physically) and he stills saves them.

[botch]

I loved Birthright. If they meshed this with Smallville and the krypton from the animated series then it would be the ultimate superman backstory. Alot of things I didn't like, eg how krypton didn't know of other intelligent life which makes no sense and the backstory of Lex which is too typical rather than more realistic and grounded like the smallville Lex.

The ending was very emotional, it was unexpected and i loved it. If this is how clark becomes superman in smallville then i'll be a happy guy.

I loved the art, especially the colouring, looks brilliant, looks superman. Leinel is amazing but has anyone seen his newest stuff on Ultimate wolverine vs hulk, he has gone from amazing to God. that guy has power beyond all of us.

[dancj]

people fearing and hating supes sounds like something that would actually happen. say there were no comic books, some dude comes out, he's an alien, and hes wearing underwear on the outside. damn right people would fear him. .
I agree. It makes perfect sense as the first Superman story.
thats what i love about the book, he proves himself to humanity who are a pathetic species compared to him(mentally not just physically) and he stills saves them.
He's not mentally superior to humans in post-Crisis continuity. He's ment to be a very intelligent man, but not on the level of Batman or Lex Luthor

[Agentum]

See, in 5 or 10 years, ALL of DC's heroes will have been around only since 9/11. They will try to reference 9/11 as having taken place right around the time of their origins. Birthright will have those references already in place!

I know it doesn't probably make much sense right now, but it actually WILL.


By then it could have happened worse things, and it has happened worse things before that.
But maybe you are right

[cactusmaac]

I found it to be mostly pointless and something of a fan-wank.

It's a very empty read which does not justify having 12 issues.

The art got progressively worse throughout.

Get Man Of Steel Vol 1 and Superman: For All Seasons if you want a Supes origin.

[west3man]

Those are the problems I remember having with it. People fearing and hating Supes is not necessarily a bad Superman story, but it is a bad "first" Superman story.


SEAN
If they're ever going to feel that way, wouldn't it be at the beginning?

[west3man]

Anyway, I say pick up the hc somewhere for cheap and enjoy.

Most of the above complaints are pretty valid, but as long as you don't pay too much, it's worth it.





It would've been MORE worth it if DC'd done any-damned-thing with it, though.

[Lurker]

I found it to be mostly pointless and something of a fan-wank.

It's a very empty read which does not justify having 12 issues.

The art got progressively worse throughout.

Get Man Of Steel Vol 1 if you want a Supes origin.

I found it to be mostly pointless and something of a fan-wank.

The art got progressively worse throughout.

Get Birthright if you want a Supes origin.


:p

[PatrickG]

There are a ton of GREAT moments in Birthright. On the monthly schedule that the individual issues shipped on, it felt like we were being rationed the really good stuff.

As a trade, it reads substantially better.

I think the coloring undercut the Krypton sequences. He may have been agreeing just to be polite but I recall Waid agreeing with me that the Krypton sequences didn't really capture the majesty of what he was going for and looked more muted than he expected.

If you really read this and aren't just scanning for the details, if you take in the text and images, it's a nice read.

I think SUPERMAN: FOR ALL SEASONS has more going for it if you want an origin story.

But Birthright has some nice explorations.

My favorite bits are probably the bits about Lex (which I'm amazed how much most people seemed to miss on these parts), the Clark/Lois relationship, Pa Kent's characterization, the bits about cultural heritage (and why Africa and Krypton are relevant to eachother) and, ultimately, the Clark vs. Superman struggle that ends in a beautifully symbolic page towards the end of the book.

I think if this series had been four issues shorter and drawn by Jim Lee, it would have outsold HUSH and been a smash hit.

[west3man]

The art took some getting used to, for sure, but there were nice lil gems in it.

The one I harp on the most is that this is the first time I ever remember UNDERSTANDING why the hell Clark/Kal would even be INTERESTED in Lois. She was always so evil for the sake of being falsely-independent that their romance wasn't cohesive, imo.

Waid helped me buy into that AND the Kryptonian Underoos.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

There are a ton of GREAT moments in Birthright. On the monthly schedule that the individual issues shipped on, it felt like we were being rationed the really good stuff.

As a trade, it reads substantially better.

I think the coloring undercut the Krypton sequences. He may have been agreeing just to be polite but I recall Waid agreeing with me that the Krypton sequences didn't really capture the majesty of what he was going for and looked more muted than he expected.

If you really read this and aren't just scanning for the details, if you take in the text and images, it's a nice read.

I think SUPERMAN: FOR ALL SEASONS has more going for it if you want an origin story.

But Birthright has some nice explorations.

My favorite bits are probably the bits about Lex (which I'm amazed how much most people seemed to miss on these parts), the Clark/Lois relationship, Pa Kent's characterization, the bits about cultural heritage (and why Africa and Krypton are relevant to eachother) and, ultimately, the Clark vs. Superman struggle that ends in a beautifully symbolic page towards the end of the book.

I think if this series had been four issues shorter and drawn by Jim Lee, it would have outsold HUSH and been a smash hit.

And when did you talk to Mark, BTW?

Just curious.

And still waiting for him to write more Superman, as he stated.

[PatrickG]

In San Diego two years ago?

Birthright was only up to #1 or #2. We had a conversation about Krypton. At that point, people were complaining about it and even now, I think people don't realize the implication in the first two issues is that Superman's costume, while perhaps embarassing, is basically him wearing tribal gear in honor of his people. The colors, the cape, the briefs... They're his heritage. He isn't so much trying to be a "super-hero" as he is putting on his native garb and doing good deeds because that's the kind of person he is.

I've found that Mark Waid is very approachable at the cons. He also lurks here sometimes although I wouldn't necessarily expect him to pop up.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I think people don't realize the implication in the first two issues is that Superman's costume, while perhaps embarassing, is basically him wearing tribal gear in honor of his people. The colors, the cape, the briefs... They're his heritage. He isn't so much trying to be a "super-hero" as he is putting on his native garb and doing good deeds because that's the kind of person he is.
They "don't realize the implication"? How is that even possible? It's not implied, it's explained in so many words! What are they, retarded or something? JRTFC!

[PatrickG]

I have heard more than one person complain about the Africa portion of the story being irrelevant and a waste of pages.

But the costume makes no sense in the context of this story without the Krypton we get glimpses of and what Clark learns in Africa.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I have heard more than one person complain about the Africa portion of the story being irrelevant and a waste of pages.

But the costume makes no sense in the context of this story without the Krypton we get glimpses of and what Clark learns in Africa.

Really? I always thought one of the weakest part of Birthright was how painfully obvious Waid made this connection. It struck me as clumsy. There had to be a more subtle way of getting this across....

[The Foreigner]

I just read Birthright.

Loved it.

It's definately worth owning.

That is all.

[west3man]

Really? I always thought one of the weakest part of Birthright was how painfully obvious Waid made this connection. It struck me as clumsy. There had to be a more subtle way of getting this across....
I feel you, but I don't think the subtlety was so necessary. Subtlety doesn't hurt, though. Hmm...

Maybe he could've gone with subtlety, the first time we saw him in the Super-suit (having shown us Clark's awed response to the Kryptonian images), then gave up the details, later... maybe soon after, even.

[PatrickG]

I think Waid, in the footsteps of Maggin, should write a Birthright novel.

Or better yet, they should do as they did with Kingdom Come and get Maggin to write a Birthright novelization that expands and improves on the story. Birthright already uses Maggin-esque ideas. Maggin could make it sing.

[dancj]

I think if this series had been four issues shorter and drawn by Jim Lee, it would have outsold HUSH and been a smash hit.

If Lee had drawn it it would have been split accross two TPBs - and I still wouldn't own it for that reason.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

In San Diego two years ago?

Birthright was only up to #1 or #2. We had a conversation about Krypton. At that point, people were complaining about it and even now, I think people don't realize the implication in the first two issues is that Superman's costume, while perhaps embarassing, is basically him wearing tribal gear in honor of his people. The colors, the cape, the briefs... They're his heritage. He isn't so much trying to be a "super-hero" as he is putting on his native garb and doing good deeds because that's the kind of person he is.

I've found that Mark Waid is very approachable at the cons. He also lurks here sometimes although I wouldn't necessarily expect him to pop up.


Cool. I'd like to see the Krypton Waid wanted. It seems that in Waid's mind, according to what you said, he wanted something even more fantastic. I'd like that.

I agree with that: when you pay more attention to it, those sequences indeed look kinda muted.

BTW, Maggin writing a Birthright novel would be excellent.

Better yet, why don't Morrison, Waid, Peyer and Millar try to release that Superman 2000 project again?

[jadegiant77]

I'd say no. They shouldn't have retconned Man of Steel, damn it all./

[Lurker]

I'd say no. They shouldn't have retconned Man of Steel, damn it all./

Here we go again :rolleyes:

[ryan_catcher]

I got it today and read it. It's alright. Maybe I am spoiled from All Star Superman, but it didn't knock my socks off.

It's a nice thick book though and looks excellent on my bookshelf, but I have a feelings it's going to stay on there and not come down as often as some of the other books.

I should have went with my gut and got Superman For All Seasons though. I am a huge Loeb and Sale fan.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I got it today and read it. It's alright. Maybe I am spoiled from All Star Superman, but it didn't knock my socks off.

It's a nice thick book though and looks excellent on my bookshelf, but I have a feelings it's going to stay on there and not come down as often as some of the other books.

I should have went with my gut and got Superman For All Seasons though. I am a huge Loeb and Sale fan.

You can do that later.

I guess Birthright is one of those hit-or-miss type stories.

[ryan_catcher]

You can do that later.

I guess Birthright is one of those hit-or-miss type stories.

It's not that I didn't like it, it just felt a bit um forced? Overall a great read, and I liked bits of it.

Would have made a neat ongoing series.

Is it just me or with all the mask talk early on...was anyone else expecting a Batman cameo?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It's not that I didn't like it, it just felt a bit um forced? Overall a great read, and I liked bits of it.

How come? I didn't see it that way. Actually, I thought the story had a nice pace, for a 12-issue maxiseries.

Would have made a neat ongoing series.

Well, I'm still waiting to see more of Waid's Superman.

Is it just me or with all the mask talk early on...was anyone else expecting a Batman cameo?

Honestly, a Batman cameo would have ruined it, IMO. It's a Superman origin story, and a Batman appearance would indeed have been a forced thing. There was no point to put Batman in there. Besides, as far as I can tell, Superman's been in "the business" for a little bit longer than Bats.

[The Foreigner]

Honestly, a Batman cameo would have ruined it, IMO. It's a Superman origin story, and a Batman appearance would indeed have been a forced thing. There was no point to put Batman in there. Besides, as far as I can tell, Superman's been in "the business" for a little bit longer than Bats.

Superman is mentioned in "Batman: Year One" -- Before Bruce became Batman.

A sequel to Birthright by Waid and Yu would be pretty great though, and a supporting role from Bats would be cool as well.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's not that I didn't like it, it just felt a bit um forced? Overall a great read, and I liked bits of it.


I feel pretty much the exact same way. Birthright feels a little too deliberate, a little too over-thought in places for my liking. I enjoyed what Waid did with the character's origins more than I enjoyed the actual story, if that makes any sense.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Superman is mentioned in "Batman: Year One" -- Before Bruce became Batman.

A sequel to Birthright by Waid and Yu would be pretty great though, and a supporting role from Bats would be cool as well.

Now a Bats cameo in a Birthright sequel wouldn't be bad. Besides, I'd like to know what are Waid's ideas for The House Of El. I felt like that was pretty much a loose end.

[botch]

I agree. It makes perfect sense as the first Superman story.

He's not mentally superior to humans in post-Crisis continuity. He's ment to be a very intelligent man, but not on the level of Batman or Lex Luthor

No I meant in terms of mentallity, not intelligence. he lacks all the traits of Humanity. He is more like Aragorn. He isn't greedy, he isn't destructive, he is noble and self sacrificing. All things humanity. I'm thinking with a very misnathropic view here. It's like alot of essays have been written on Aragorn, how he's too 'good' to be a man, partially because he has Elvish blood and was raised by Elves. Same with Supes, he is a better person than any human which makes him beyond human.

[dancj]

No I meant in terms of mentallity, not intelligence. he lacks all the traits of Humanity. He is more like Aragorn. He isn't greedy, he isn't destructive, he is noble and self sacrificing. All things humanity. I'm thinking with a very misnathropic view here. It's like alot of essays have been written on Aragorn, how he's too 'good' to be a man, partially because he has Elvish blood and was raised by Elves. Same with Supes, he is a better person than any human which makes him beyond human.

I've never heard that before. I'm not sure I like it. It detracts from the character a bit.

[Kilgore Trout]

I've never heard that before. I'm not sure I like it. It detracts from the character a bit.
Really?

I think that's a great definition for Superman...

Much better than the "big blue boyscout"

Despite the past 20 years, Superman is STILL a visitor on Earth, he IS NOT an earthman... He IS different...

I always thought that was the point...

IMO, the way he's been written over the past couple of decades, he may as well have been a regular Joe who stumbled into his superpowers by accidently rubbing a magic genie's lamp...

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Really?

I think that's a great definition for Superman...

Much better than the "big blue boyscout"

Despite the past 20 years, Superman is STILL a visitor on Earth, he IS NOT an earthman... He IS different...

I always thought that was the point...

IMO, the way he's been written over the past couple of decades, he may as well have been a regular Joe who stumbled into his superpowers by accidently rubbing a magic genie's lamp...

Oh, I soooo agree with this.

The guy is a freakin' alien god, dammit.

He's not human, and never will be.

[dancj]

I just feel that if he's inherenltly biologically tuned to be a hero, it takes away from the acheivment of him being that hero

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I just feel that if he's inherenltly biologically tuned to be a hero, it takes away from the acheivment of him being that hero

I see your point.

Those values he has are not biology/genetics-related, but rather the upbringing he had in Smallville.

[Xothermic]

It's a good read with good art. I felt it gave Superman more character in terms of his world travels. I also really liked the ending. Brought a tear to my eye *sniff*

Yeah, the ending was nice.