what is the absolute top speed for superman

[TheSentryLives]

that he has shown while running in his postcrisis era

[Guts/Batman]

Maybe lightspeed.

Near lightspeed for sure, however.

Nowhere near Flash. Just...nowhere near Wally West.

[TheSentryLives]

that has to be wrong,because people have listed that wonder woman has moved at light speed and superman being both stronger,faster and more durable than both ww and martian manhunter i am pretty sure can run at light speed

[Guts/Batman]

AFAIK, Wonder Woman and MM aren't lightspeed. They go near it but not lightspeed. Superman can maybe go lightspeed but I would put him 10x lightspeed.

Wally has feats that put him 70.5 trillion x C. That's just nuts.

[davids]

black hole! His gravity would be so intence he would form a black hole that would devour every thing including the solar system and any other with in 25 light years! :evilsmile

[Guts/Batman]

black hole! His gravity would be so intence he would form a black hole that would devour every thing including the solar system and any other with in 25 light years! :evilsmile

Indeed.

Flash has lots of plot induced stupity. If it is possible, the worst PIS problem in comics.

[Mainline]

At that speed wally would be so massive that he would form his own.... black hole! His gravity would be so intence he would form a black hole that would devour every thing including the solar system and any other with in 25 light years! :evilsmile

One answer: Speed Force.

Long before that he'd have issues with breath, friction, trajectory, escape velocity, etc. All these and more are elegantly answered for Flashes by the Speed Force.

[Guts/Batman]

One answer: Speed Force.

Long before that he'd have issues with breath, friction, trajectory, escape velocity, etc. All these and more are elegantly answered for Flashes by the Speed Force.

True, the Speed Force is an all encompassing plot device.

[Bat-Mite]

Anyway, an issue of Superman (I think Loeb wrote it) mentions that Superman can go from the Earth to Pluto in ten minutes or so, making him somewhat faster than light. Still not as fast as Wally, but pretty fast.

[Mike Smith]

Nevermind...running, not sure.

[Buried Alien]

Anyway, an issue of Superman (I think Loeb wrote it) mentions that Superman can go from the Earth to Pluto in ten minutes or so, making him somewhat faster than light. Still not as fast as Wally, but pretty fast.

Post-COIE Superman, however, hasn't been quite the space traveler that his Pre-COIE counterparts were. For starters, Post-COIE Superman can only stay in space for as long as his oxygen supply holds out. He needs oxygen tanks to breathe while in space. That precludes extended space journeys.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[PatrickG]

Post-COIE Superman, however, hasn't been quite the space traveler that his Pre-COIE counterparts were. For starters, Post-COIE Superman can only stay in space for as long as his oxygen supply holds out. He needs oxygen tanks to breathe while in space. That precludes extended space journeys.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Well, he lost the need for the oxygen mask back in 1999 during Jeph Loeb's first arc.

[Bat-Mite]

And that's when he started flying to Pluto in ten minutes or so.

[davids]

UNDER the influence of unfilted sun light he is given a rather large power boost! :o

[TheSentryLives]

So basically no one know's what he can do running if he pushed himself.

[Mike Smith]

Well, he lost the need for the oxygen mask back in 1999 during Jeph Loeb's first arc.

Didn't Dini stick him back in his mask, thinking that was the way things should be. Or of course it could have been marketing ploy to sell Astronaut Superman and Scuba Diving Superman (my nephews once maintained absolutely needs both).

If we are assuming Supes running speed is comparable to his flying speed, he did travel to the Sun and back (when brain controlled and fighting Diana) in 1 minute 38 seconds.

[Mainline]

So basically no one know's what he can do running if he pushed himself.

Wrong.

There's a practical limit to running speed. Even assuming the ground could take the impact of tremendous strides powered purely by force, eventually, those strides would be so fast and so long the motion would cease to be called "running". If a single step is beyond escape velocity and you orbit around the planet before taking your next step, you've long since ceased to "run".

Maximum running speed for Earth (absent Speed Force, magic, or similar device) is exit/escape/orbit velocity (and I suspect much lower than that when each foot step is taking you in massive arcs).

Any faster, then Superman is flying... not upwards, but downwards to maintain contact with the ground. However that ceases to be a measure of his running speed the instant flight is involved.

[Pariah128]

on earth he can go around lightspeed, in space..around 50-60 times that

[TheSentryLives]

on earth he can go around lightspeed, in space..around 50-60 times that


is that while he is pushing it to his max ability?

[PatrickG]

Pretty sure Superman has flown as far as Thangar in a few hours. The question is whether he does that under his own steam or whether he's memorized the locations of wormholes or something.

And I would count Superman as running as long as he feet are touching the ground in a fashion which resembles running, even if his flight is the agent of propulsion.

[Mainline]

is that while he is pushing it to his max ability?

As the OP, you need to clarify if you mean running or flight. And whether you intend to use this to infer operational speed and not just travelling speed.

Regardless, "Adventure of Superman #632" Lois gets shot and Superman books at his max practical speed... there's almost no other earthly circumstance that will push him to move any faster. Which is to say, he might still be holding back during that flight, but he's holding back the least amount he can... he's getting to wounded Lois as fast as he reasonably can.

[Mainline]

Page 2 of AoS632.

[JulianPerez]

In MIRACLE MONDAY, Elliot S! Maggin wrote that "Superboy could move to the other side of the universe as quick as other boys could reach the creek in the next town."

Superman could move faster than light in order to crack the time barrier fast enough, which he did under his own power various times.

On foot, I highly doubt the Flash is faster than Superman is. For one thing, Superman has super-strength in addition to Superspeed; he can punch himself off the ground, giving additional thrust to his movement.

In addition, it's doubtful any race would be a Flash victory, for two reasons:the first is greater experience with using Superspeed. Superman was jaunting to other galaxies when Wally West was the Fastest Embryo Alive. Cary Bates gave Superman A NEW WAY TO USE SUPERSPEED almost once a month for TEN YEARS, a tribute as much to Cary Bates's talent as it is to Superman's own experience, intelligence, and capacity for innovation.

The second is that Superman is superpowerful, while the Flash is not. Assuming it is an "around the world" race, the Flash would be weakened by conditions such as extreme heat and sunstroke found in the Sahara, or his lungs would be taxed in areas like the Himalayas. None of these would be problems for Superman. Most importantly of all: the Flash eventually will get tired and slow down. Superman never does.

While I understand the reasoning behind the writers that gave a Flash victory to their races (after all, if the Flash is ONLY good at Superspeed, he ought to be better at it than anyone else) a world like the DC Universe and Earth-1 operates by rules, which make us believe in its existence.

[TheSentryLives]

In MIRACLE MONDAY, Elliot S! Maggin wrote that "Superboy could move to the other side of the universe as quick as other boys could reach the creek in the next town."

Superman could move faster than light in order to crack the time barrier fast enough, which he did under his own power various times.

On foot, I highly doubt the Flash is faster than Superman is. For one thing, Superman has super-strength in addition to Superspeed; he can punch himself off the ground, giving additional thrust to his movement.

In addition, it's doubtful any race would be a Flash victory, for two reasons:the first is greater experience with using Superspeed. Superman was jaunting to other galaxies when Wally West was the Fastest Embryo Alive. Cary Bates gave Superman A NEW WAY TO USE SUPERSPEED almost once a month for TEN YEARS, a tribute as much to Cary Bates's talent as it is to Superman's own experience, intelligence, and capacity for innovation.

The second is that Superman is superpowerful, while the Flash is not. Assuming it is an "around the world" race, the Flash would be weakened by conditions such as extreme heat and sunstroke found in the Sahara, or his lungs would be taxed in areas like the Himalayas. None of these would be problems for Superman. Most importantly of all: the Flash eventually will get tired and slow down. Superman never does.

While I understand the reasoning behind the writers that gave a Flash victory to their races (after all, if the Flash is ONLY good at Superspeed, he ought to be better at it than anyone else) a world like the DC Universe and Earth-1 operates by rules, which make us believe in its existence.


sorry to break it to you but i am talking about post-crisis superman. 2nd flash is protected by external stuff such as extreme heat or anything else because of the speedforce aura that protects his body.

[TheSentryLives]

As the OP, you need to clarify if you mean running or flight. And whether you intend to use this to infer operational speed and not just travelling speed.

Regardless, "Adventure of Superman #632" Lois gets shot and Superman books at his max practical speed... there's almost no other earthly circumstance that will push him to move any faster. Which is to say, he might still be holding back during that flight, but he's holding back the least amount he can... he's getting to wounded Lois as fast as he reasonably can.


Running only,no flight

[PatrickG]

People always want to exclude flight and that strikes me as silly for a guy who gravity doesn't affect.

IMO, the way Superman moves at super-speed is not and cannot be the result of his muscles but is an outgrowth of whatever allows him to fly.

Which may or may not be a self-range telekinetic field depending on whatever Superman's powers are, post-Birthright.

But Superman and Flash, as I see it, are not powered by their muscles but by energy fields that surround their bodies. Both can exceed lightspeed. Both have zero intertia and unlimited thrust.

Superman's senses allow him to navigate space better whereas, presumably, it becomes more difficult for Flash. (Didn't Wally end up time travelling the last time he tried that at full speed? I remember him racing across Krypton.) Flash, meanwhile, can navigate time. Superman, by all rights, has gone fast enough to travel through time... and he technically is whenever he heads out for deep space and arrives back on earth with no more than hours to weeks having passed. However, Superman doesn't appear to have the conscious ability to navigate time like Wally does.

[TheSentryLives]

People always want to exclude flight and that strikes me as silly for a guy who gravity doesn't affect.

IMO, the way Superman moves at super-speed is not and cannot be the result of his muscles but is an outgrowth of whatever allows him to fly.

Which may or may not be a self-range telekinetic field depending on whatever Superman's powers are, post-Birthright.

But Superman and Flash, as I see it, are not powered by their muscles but by energy fields that surround their bodies. Both can exceed lightspeed. Both have zero intertia and unlimited thrust.

Superman's senses allow him to navigate space better whereas, presumably, it becomes more difficult for Flash. (Didn't Wally end up time travelling the last time he tried that at full speed? I remember him racing across Krypton.) Flash, meanwhile, can navigate time. Superman, by all rights, has gone fast enough to travel through time... and he technically is whenever he heads out for deep space and arrives back on earth with no more than hours to weeks having passed. However, Superman doesn't appear to have the conscious ability to navigate time like Wally does.


So superman in post-crisis can go past light-speed?

[JulianPerez]

Didn't Dini stick him back in his mask, thinking that was the way things should be. Or of course it could have been marketing ploy to sell Astronaut Superman and Scuba Diving Superman (my nephews once maintained absolutely needs both).

I loved, loved, loved the SUPERMAN ANIMATED SERIES, although I think that was one thing they did wrong. Superman with an underwater exploration outfit? What next - "Hang Glider" Superman?

Superman's senses allow him to navigate space better whereas, presumably, it becomes more difficult for Flash. (Didn't Wally end up time travelling the last time he tried that at full speed? I remember him racing across Krypton.) Flash, meanwhile, can navigate time. Superman, by all rights, has gone fast enough to travel through time... and he technically is whenever he heads out for deep space and arrives back on earth with no more than hours to weeks having passed. However, Superman doesn't appear to have the conscious ability to navigate time like Wally does.

Oooh, good point!

One of my all-time favorite moments in comics history was in STAR BRAND, where the Star Brand gets "lost" in space - and when he finally finds the earth, has to do a lot of work coming back to where his hometown on earth is. This made me laugh, considering how often Superman went from space directly to his apartment and never had to worry about that sort of thing.

In LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, it was established that only beings that have powerful personal senses like Superman and Mon-El can navigate through time without the aid of a Time Beacon acting as a temporal "lighthouse" for travellers.

So superman in post-crisis can go past light-speed?

Yes.

Even in the Schwartz era where his power was reduced, Superman jaunted all the way to other galaxies. Further, he was often described as "moving at speeds that would leave a light beam behind," and further, in order to obtain records of the past, Superman travelled faster than light to catch up to light waves in order to photograph them.

[Buried Alien]

Yes.

Even in the Schwartz era where his power was reduced, Superman jaunted all the way to other galaxies. Further, he was often described as "moving at speeds that would leave a light beam behind," and further, in order to obtain records of the past, Superman travelled faster than light to catch up to light waves in order to photograph them.

That's all Pre-COIE, however. Once John Byrne took the reigns, light speed was about the upper limit that Superman could reach, and he had to strain to do it.

He's gotten faster since then, but nowhere near Pre-COIE levels.



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Guts/Batman]

On foot, I highly doubt the Flash is faster than Superman is. For one thing, Superman has super-strength in addition to Superspeed; he can punch himself off the ground, giving additional thrust to his movement.

In addition, it's doubtful any race would be a Flash victory, for two reasons:the first is greater experience with using Superspeed. Superman was jaunting to other galaxies when Wally West was the Fastest Embryo Alive. Cary Bates gave Superman A NEW WAY TO USE SUPERSPEED almost once a month for TEN YEARS, a tribute as much to Cary Bates's talent as it is to Superman's own experience, intelligence, and capacity for innovation.

Two things...

Did Post-Crisis Superman get 70.5 trillion times faster in like the last few minutes?

Also, are we forgetting that Wally can steal Clark's speed anytime he wants, leaving him a stone?

Those Speed Force tricks are quite nifty. He just never uses them because if he did, his comics would last all of...3 panels, if your lucky.

Clark is no match for Wally running.

[Pariah128]

So superman in post-crisis can go past light-speed?


Many times that. Superman and GL go from jupiter to pluto(over 500 million miles) in the time it takes them to say a few sentences(in otherwords, a few seconds)

[Mainline]

Many times that. Superman and GL go from jupiter to pluto(over 500 million miles) in the time it takes them to say a few sentences(in otherwords, a few seconds)

The fastest that Superman has been CLOCKED and unassisted, as far as I know, is about 20x times the speed of light (light from Saturn to us is about 80 minutes... he did the trip in ~4 min, so 20x). Other travelling feats may have vagarities such as possible assists from GL, gravity wells, worm-holes, etc.

[Pariah128]

Other travelling feats may have vagarities such as possible assists from GL, gravity wells, worm-holes, etc.

If it doesnt say he\\\'s had assistance, then there really isnt any reason to assume he did. In the feat I mentioned with GL, he had no assistance whatsoever, the purpose of the space flight was to test supermans powers. they are chatting the whole time, you see them pass jupiter, then 2-3 seconds later kyle stops em and says they are hovering where pluto should be(something had happened to pluto, I think something with warworld, but thats irrelevant) so thats atleast one feat where there was no assistance. Nor should his other speed feats be discounted unless they flat out state he uses worm holes or such.


If the saturn feat clocks him at 20x light, then the jupiter-pluto feat should be even quicker, seeing as saturns 746 million miles from earth, but pluto is 2.3 billion miles from jupiter

[Pariah128]

Two things...

Did Post-Crisis Superman get 70.5 trillion times faster in like the last few minutes?

I dont think supes can run quicker than wally, but to be fair, youre bringing up flashes most uber feat, besides that, can you honestly say flash is in the 70 trillion times light range? not really, he\'s never been that consistently fast post crisis. However, I do remember a couple of issues like flash wanting desperately to find linda, and superman being the only one who could follow him. Theres also another superman issue where supes is training with flash to get faster, and wally comments that supes has indeed gotten much faster, after the training flash bolts away at superspeed and supes is quick enough to bolt directly in front of him to stop him, which was pretty impressive. Now I doubt flash was going at full speed, but still a pretty nice feat.



Also, are we forgetting that Wally can steal Clark\'s speed anytime he wants, leaving him a stone?

Back when supes still had his aura, I\'d try to argue the aura would prevent a speed steal..but now, I\'m content with saying I think high end supermans speed against flash(discounting his most uber feats) would be enough to allow him to atleast fly to a safe enough distance where he was free from a speedsteal, in a rumble since fights begin 100 ft. apart, this would be especially easy. From there, he could just nuke the arena with heat vision, or suck up all the air out of it and wait for flash to pass out.

Now that you mention it im a bit curious, besides flashes most uber 70 trillion times light feat, what speed would his other feats consistently put him at? I always hear the 70 trillion feat, but thats it, and its usually only rare occasions that flash is portrayed as being so much faster than clark that he could hit him before clark even knows what happens.

[Mainline]

INor should his other speed feats be discounted unless they flat out state he uses worm holes or such.

Unclocked. That's the significance. Comic dialogue can't be used to clock anything considering how often it poorly correlates to action/movement. There's often whole paragraphs of exposition in the span of a single punch.

can you honestly say flash is in the 70 trillion times light range?

Based on his CLOCKED time, yes. Whether that was his actual speed or not, it was his practical speed, the same EFFECT as moving that fast. Things get fuzzy FTL after all.

Back when supes still had his aura, I'd try to argue the aura would prevent a speed steal..but now, I'm content with saying I think high end supermans speed against flash(discounting his most uber feats) would be enough to allow him to atleast fly to a safe enough distance where he was free from a speedsteal, in a rumble since fights begin 100 ft. apart, this would be especially easy.

Races, not Rumbles, you seem to be confused... regardless:
0. Supes has admitted on multiple occasions Flash's speed superiority; the number of Post Crisis Superman FTL showings are less than the total amount of high-end Flash showings (let's not forget that was Waid's bread-n-butter, Johns and Kelly only continued the tradition) so it's hardly reasonable to count Superman's exception against Flash's rule.
1. Supes has proven vulnerable to Speed Steals and lends repeatedly. Given it works against shielded Lanterns, I doubt Supes' old aura would have afforded any special protection against it.
2. Supes needs to accelerate, particularly his perceptions/reflexes, this is mentioned in Flash #209 and pre-Sacrifice. Whereas Flash has many instantaneous speed start showings.
3. Flash's maximum exhibited Speed Steal range was the entire planet Earth, but even his "low" end showing let him Speed Steal from over 500ft when taking out a tsunami in "Sins of Youth".

[Pariah128]

Unclocked. That\'s the significance. Comic dialogue can\'t be used to clock anything considering how often it poorly correlates to action/movement. There\'s often whole paragraphs of exposition in the span of a single punch.

Except there wasnt any exposition etc. Clark and kyle were having a conversation, they were starting and finishing the same line of sentences as they passed from jupiter to pluto. So unless youre gonna tell me that superman routinely pauses mid sentence and waits several minutes/hours before finishing said sentence, then fine..and being a superman fan, I know he doesnt. So, in this case, yes you can somewhat clock the dialogue, or atleast the time it takes them to finish a sentence.

In fact heres the scan:

http://x.proxifree.com/i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/Pariah122/GLsupes.jpg

So now, looking at the pic, you can see there was no exposition of any sort. You can clearly see they begin the convo about supes feeling good/like he could move planets, kyle says your kidding, supermans says yes, then asks him if its hard to tell, then kyle basically says hes not as bad as batman but yea..then he gets cut off. So I cant see how the feats ambigious as to the time, we both know how long it would take to say those few sentences, now if you have another logical explanation, I\\\'m all ears



Based on his CLOCKED time, yes. Whether that was his actual speed or not, it was his practical speed, the same EFFECT as moving that fast. Things get fuzzy FTL after all.

Youre not getting me, we go by consistency on the board, if 99% of flashes speed feats put him at below the 70 trillion times light range, then the feat goes into the SvsFL category, as he usually doesnt show that type of speed. They dont need to be clocked feats, just random insane feats that compare. I was wondering if theres anything else close to that insane of a speed to say that the speed itself is consistent to the flash, which I dont think it is



Races, not Rumbles, you seem to be confused... regardless:

No..they werent races, one supes was trying to catch flash, one supes and flash were training. anyways..


0. Supes has admitted on multiple occasions Flash\'s speed superiority;

You seem to be the one confused, as I acknowledge the same fact in my post.


the number of Post Crisis Superman FTL showings are less than the total amount of high-end Flash showings (let\'s not forget that was Waid\'s bread-n-butter, Johns and Kelly only continued the tradition) so it\'s hardly reasonable to count Superman\'s exception against Flash\'s rule.

Again, I wasnt saying superman was faster, I was arguing that in a rumbles situation, he\'d be quick enough to fly up out of flashes speedsteal range before he can speedsteal.



1. Supes has proven vulnerable to Speed Steals and lends repeatedly. Given it works against shielded Lanterns, I doubt Supes\' old aura would have afforded any special protection against it.

and as I said, I would try to argue it, never said it was set in stone


2. Supes needs to accelerate, particularly his perceptions/reflexes, this is mentioned in Flash #209 and pre-Sacrifice. Whereas Flash has many instantaneous speed start showings.

and other times superman doesnt need to accelerate his perceptions and reflexes, so this is moot, and again not the point, as again my post was speculating if he\'d be able to take flight before having his speed stolen.


3. Flash\'s maximum exhibited Speed Steal range was the entire planet Earth, but even his \"low\" end showing let him Speed Steal from over 500ft when taking out a tsunami in \"Sins of Youth\".

and I assume the earth speed steal was a one time thing? If not, very well, then superman couldnt escape his range

[Mainline]

That's just the point, dialogue is flat out unreliable for clocking period, not to mention artistic license. They make no comment about Jupiter so we have no real gauge of his movement. If it's anywhere near what you say, then this would be his highest end speed feat yet showing no strain at all, which is inconsistent with his strained highest clocked feat. Similar to Sacrifice, Rucka said he never meant for "sun-dipping" to be part of the equation, but the artist's license has made many interpret the fight as going near the Sun's surface.

So I cant see how the feats ambigious as to the time, we both know how long it would take to say those few sentences, now if you have another logical explanation, I'm all ears

The most probable is artistic license scaling the planets and their respective distances poorly (for example, we do not take character size literally- we do not say Superman gained 50 lbs of muscle or lost 4 inches off his chin because of different artists). This is why expos'ed clocked times are significant whereas a "feat" like this has little merit.

If you need a No Prize apologetic, Kyle could be jumping them between planets, frames, and sentences as a backdrop to appeal to his artistic sensibilities and the playful/casual nature of the conversation. There's absolutely no question it's with in a Lantern's ability to travel FTL and carry others along the way.

Youre not getting me, we go by consistency on the board, if 99% of flashes speed feats put him at below the 70 trillion times light range, then the feat goes into the SvsFL category, as he usually doesnt show that type of speed. Except he often does, not clocked with as specific figures but with specific exposition (not merely reader intepretation of artwork) by the writers. Check his respect thread. The scale- entire cities, entire bridges- aren't oft repeated, but the speed certainly is.

They dont need to be clocked feats, just random insane feats that compare.

Repeatable/consistent non-SMvsFL type feats you should say. Superman moving his fastest ever, casually, yet slower and strained is the mark of SMvFL or misinterpretation on the part of the reader (or artist). It's clear the writer did not expos it to be considered a Superman speed feat.

You seem to be the one confused, as I acknowledge the same fact in my post.

No you're confused. We're discussing speed and you start introducing the Arena, 100ft distances, and raining down heat vision (which Flash outraced, btw). It's not a Rumble.

Again, I wasnt saying superman was faster, I was arguing that in a rumbles situation, he'd be quick enough to fly up out of flashes speedsteal range before he can speedsteal.

Which suggests confusion. The person you responded to was speaking in relation to a race, yet you cited back Rumble terms.

and other times superman doesnt need to accelerate his perceptions and reflexes, so this is moot, and again not the point, as again my post was speculating if he\'d be able to take flight before having his speed stolen.

It's relevent that the multiple times Superman's speed, perceptions, and reflexes have been DIRECTLY compared to Flash's, he's cited as requiring acceleration relative to Flash, which plays directly into your scenario. Certainly both seem to have instantaneous acceleration compared to mortals, but Supes doesn't have clocked ones that I know of whereas Flash does.

and I assume the earth speed steal was a one time thing? If not, very well, then superman couldnt escape his range

He's done it twice. The end of JLA: Obsidian Age and in Flash:The Human Race, the latter done from across the universe... I toss out the latter as being an obscene case of SMvFL, but as far as the scale of the entire planet, it's consistent (and why shouldn't it, if you consider he can stop someone with the immense power of Superman?).


...

Anyways, I think we're off track. Let's get back to task of cataloging Superman's speed. Personally, I'm less interested in his travelling speed which, particularly space-faring, has been plot-device-ish... Superman simply gets where he needs to much like Jack does on 24, regardless of time or space, allowing the plot/story to progress. I'm interested in operational speed- tasks executed at exceptional speeds- and feats clearly meant to be taken as speed feats by the writer (like the 20x feat or the Lois catch).

[Pariah128]

That\'s just the point, dialogue is flat out unreliable for clocking period, not to mention artistic license. They make no comment about Jupiter so we have no real gauge of his movement. If it\'s anywhere near what you say, then this would be his highest end speed feat yet showing no strain at all, which is inconsistent with his strained highest clocked feat. Similar to Sacrifice, Rucka said he never meant for \"sun-dipping\" to be part of the equation, but the artist\'s license has made many interpret the fight as going near the Sun\'s surface.


We know they\'re in the solar system because they took off from earth/the moon. You can clearly see the red planet in the background is jupiter, unless your suggesting A)they quickly journeyed to another solar system and back, which would make the feat faste, or B) Theres a 10th planet they just dont feel like acknowlidging. I think it\'s pretty clear by the art where they are. Supermans never shown strain in space while flying, and his speed times vary. Also take into consideration he mentions the suns rays werent blocked out, so I guess you could call it full power, any further and you get into sundipped teritory. Anyways, the post was asking for supermans peak, and thats one of the top ones. He\'s testing his powers, he was fully rested and out in the sun, so I dont think its a huge stretch




The most probable is artistic license scaling the planets and their respective distances poorly (for example, we do not take character size literally- we do not say Superman gained 50 lbs of muscle or lost 4 inches off his chin because of different artists). This is why expos\'ed clocked times are significant whereas a \"feat\" like this has little merit.

Thats up to interpretation, superman was testing his powers out, so why would GL be helping him along? Plus it doesnt even show him doing it, theres nothing to suggest kyle was doing anything other than flying alongside superman. The text is a conversation held by them, within sentences going those distances.


Except he often does, not clocked with as specific figures but with specific exposition (not merely reader intepretation of artwork) by the writers. Check his respect thread. The scale- entire cities, entire bridges- aren\'t oft repeated, but the speed certainly is.

Well thats all I was asking..heh



Repeatable/consistent non-SMvsFL type feats you should say. Superman moving his fastest ever, casually, yet slower and strained is the mark of SMvFL or misinterpretation on the part of the reader (or artist). It\'s clear the writer did not expos it to be considered a Superman speed feat.


The only time I can remember superman straining was to reach lightspeed, but then we have him going from earth to saturn in minutes, and jupiter to pluto in moments. If youre going to say the latter is svsfl, then now all we have are the saturn and strain feat, so why does the strain outweigh the other feat? I think its the other way around, unless youre thinking of another time superman was straining, the straining feat itself could be considered svsfl, or chalked up to the fact that he was on earth instead of in space



No you\'re confused. We\'re discussing speed and you start introducing the Arena, 100ft distances, and raining down heat vision (which Flash outraced, btw). It\'s not a Rumble.

No, you\'re again confused. I\'m well aware of the topic, I was branching off about the rumble suggestions, and thats really not all that rare around here, anyways.



It\'s relevent that the multiple times Superman\'s speed, perceptions, and reflexes have been DIRECTLY compared to Flash\'s, he\'s cited as requiring acceleration relative to Flash, which plays directly into your scenario. Certainly both seem to have instantaneous acceleration compared to mortals, but Supes doesn\'t have clocked ones that I know of whereas Flash does.


But again, I was again referring to a rumble with them, yes I branched off, I was just talking about him simply escaping flashes range by flying straight up, that doesnt require him to precisely adjust his reflexes at that moment because it would just would be a dash, that is if flash has a range thats escapable, which you said he didnt so it doesnt matter



He\'s done it twice. The end of JLA: Obsidian Age and in Flash:The Human Race, the latter done from across the universe... I toss out the latter as being an obscene case of SMvFL, but as far as the scale of the entire planet, it\'s consistent (and why shouldn\'t it, if you consider he can stop someone with the immense power of Superman?).

I guess again I was forgetting the flashes uberness..



Anyways, I think we\'re off track. Let\'s get back to task of cataloging Superman\'s speed. Personally, I\'m less interested in his travelling speed which, particularly space-faring, has been plot-device-ish... Superman simply gets where he needs to much like Jack does on 24, regardless of time or space, allowing the plot/story to progress. I\'m interested in operational speed- tasks executed at exceptional speeds- and feats clearly meant to be taken as speed feats by the writer (like the 20x feat or the Lois catch).

none of these are that impressive, but in the last couple weeks he\'s traveled across a city after the shot was fired and gotten there in time to stop it, as in..he was across a city(this is said) and the shot his fired, and he gets there in time..actually I think with ruin he just misses..lol but the person shooting missed on purpose, this scenario or something similiar has happened atleast twice as i said in the last few weaks. Also when he last fought ruin a few weaks ago ruin said removing his armor would result in an instant blast that would destroy the city, superman quickly removed it and flew up into the sky so the blast radius was away from the city.

To note, the ruin feat i just named also happened in the same issue as the first bullet catch feat i said as well..and superman had been weakened by repeated red sun energy blasts from ruin.

I know in the past he\'s built stuff fast, but but it doesnt say how fast

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Anyways, the post was asking for supermans peak, and thats one of the top ones. He\'s testing his powers, he was fully rested and out in the sun, so I dont think its a huge stretch. Thats up to interpretation, superman was testing his powers out, so why would GL be helping him along?Do you have the page earlier exposing it's a test of his power? Even if they were being 'ported between planets and doing laps around them it would still be a test. But again, that's the No Prize explanation, to me it was simply bad choices of backgrounds.

Plus it doesnt even show him doing it, theres nothing to suggest kyle was doing anything other than flying alongside superman. The text is a conversation held by them, within sentences going those distances. The text is merely the conversation and the eventual destination. Only the ART gives context to their movement, which I've already said is highly subject to license particularly when going into/dealing with space... how often do artsist reliably draw the stars? Should we plot those and determine they're fallen into an alternate universe because the patterns seen can't possibly exist in our solar system? Celestial bodies are often used willy nilly by artists.

My impression is that the writer's intent is to say- look, they got to Pluto and it's missing. Not to emphasize his speed capabilities. It's similar to Jack getting where ever he needs to be on 24. The writers just want him there, it isn't meant to be extrapolated into a "Jack is faster than the Dukes of Hazzards in LA traffic" feat.

To note, the ruin feat i just named also happened in the same issue as the first bullet catch feat i said as well..and superman had been weakened by repeated red sun energy blasts from ruin.

I know in the past he\'s built stuff fast, but but it doesnt say how fast

Yes, I read the end of the Ruin storyline as well as Gail's run. Believe it or not, Superman's my favorite hero (even more that Flash). To me, yes, those are considered speed feats because the writer is clearly trying to convey Superman's speed. The only reason I'm being picky about feats is because the OP wants to know "how fast" and unfortunately most of Superman's feats are unclocked such that you can only say "really fast". But things with numbers and measurements give us a more specific answer to "how fast".