$300 for shoes? And you don't wear them?

[Puma]

The collect anything mania continues:

SAN FRANCISCO
One week, $295 small price to pay
Sneakerheads camp out for reissued Air Jordans that won't be worn

Steve Rubenstein, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, January 28, 2006

The Air Jordan shoes are being stored in a secret spot in... Jerry Leon of Hayward (center) has been waiting outside N...

Some shoes are too splendid to put on your feet, and those are the kind that three dozen people have been waiting in line all week to buy in San Francisco.

It would be dumb to do anything so crass with these basketball shoes, say the prospective buyers, as play basketball in them.

That was the word on Stockton Street, from the hardy souls decked out in rain ponchos and umbrellas, waiting for the right to pay $295 for two pairs of designer sneakers in a gold box when the Niketown store opens this morning.

"Wearing them would be stupid,'' said Eddie Williams, 18, of Oakland, who had been waiting in line since last Saturday. "If you wear them, the value goes down really fast. They get creases in them.''

The gold box is something called the Defining Moments Pack, and inside it is one pair each of Air Jordan VI Retro and Air Jordan XI Retro basketball shoes. The shoes are reissued versions of earlier models released in the 1990s, and the people on the sidewalk said they did not mind giving up an entire week of their lives to get their hands on them.

Alas, not everyone would.

"Hey, Jerry, get your butt down here, they're checking the wristbands,'' one young man hollered into his cell phone Friday morning.

Buying $295 basketball shoes turns out to be a tricky thing. On Thursday, the store manager handed out 36 numbered red wristbands to the people camped on the sidewalk -- one for each gold shoe box to be sold. The prospective buyers were told they must remain in line, however, because there would be surprise wristband checks every few hours and no-shows would lose their right to buy the shoes.

At 10:30 a.m. Friday, store manager Gerome Lacy came out with his clipboard for the morning wristband roll call. That led to the frantic waves of cell phoning from those still in line to their friends who had wandered off to attend to calls of nature.

"I mean it, Jerry, they're checking right now! Move it!''

Between wristband checks, there was plenty of time for the sport shoe fanatics, who call themselves sneakerheads, to sit on the cold, soggy sidewalk in the rain and ponder what it all means.

"These shoes tell you who you are,'' said Christina Chow, a junior at Thurgood Marshall High School in San Francisco, who was wearing wristband 34. "They express your personality. They speak up for you, without words. They say you're hip, that you're not a follower.'' yet you don't wear them so how do they 'speak up for you'?

"That's right,'' said her pal Anthony Peña of San Francisco, who was wearing wristband 27.

Prospective buyer Wilson Woo (wristband No. 13) said he owns 300 pairs of shoes, many of them Air Jordans, and has only worn 100 of them.

"It's like baseball cards,'' he said. "You handle them too much and the value drops.''

Erick Gonzales of Union City, at the end of the line, said a good basketball shoe was like a good woman.

"When you love a shoe or a woman, you go to great lengths for them,'' he said. "Shoes and women are the most satisfying things in the world.''

At the Union Square store, the actual gold boxes with the shoes were being kept in an "undisclosed location,'' Lacy said. On the condition that the precise whereabouts of the shoes and their beefy, plainclothes guardians be kept a secret, The Chronicle was escorted past a locked door, up an elevator, past an alarm system and through another locked door into a stronghold where the 36 gold shoe boxes lay like so many Fort Knox ingots.

The chief shoe guardian gently opened the flaps of one gold cardboard box and removed a shoe, cradling it in his arms as if it were a souffle fresh from the oven.

"I don't want to handle the shoe any more than absolutely necessary,'' the guardian said.

One of the two pairs in the box is white with a black patent leather strip, and the other is black with gold highlights. The shoes come with a picture of retired basketball star Michael Jordan, a certificate of authenticity and a decorative brass tag attached to the laces. (The shoes are made in China, but the brass tag is made in Taiwan, a silent testament to the power of $295 sneakers to bring the world together.)

There is reason for all the security. Air Jordan basketball shoes are sometimes prized for the wrong reasons. In 1991, a Philadelphia boy was shot and killed for his pair of Air Jordan shoes. In 1996, a Houston man was shot and killed for his pair.

Reports of armed sneaker robberies on the schoolyards and sidewalks of America are not isolated events, although designer basketball sneaker envy is more of a 1990s thing, according to Joseph Marshall, executive director of the Omega Boys Club on Potrero Hill, which has seen its share of the high-end sneaker craze.

"It's not the buzz item it used to be,'' Marshall said. "It's more jewelry these days. Also wheel rims and gold teeth. Sneakers aren't the only accessory anymore.''

Even so, the shoe sets were already fetching bids of $500 to $600 through online auction houses Friday, a full day before they were to go on sale.

Williams, who said he figured he could now safely make a quick restroom visit before the next wristband check, said he had already figured out what to do after he buys his pair. He's going to have a friend waiting in a car at the front of the store, to minimize the risk of a sidewalk mugging.

"As soon as I walk out of the store, I'm jumping in the car,'' he said. "I'm not taking any chances.''

"You got to plan this ahead of time,'' agreed Woo. "Otherwise you're going to end up with a bloody nose, or worse.''

[Leslie Lee III]

That's pretty silly, but anyone who owns a CGC graded and sealed comic is just as silly probably.

[The Humanist Hero]

I agree its silly, but as long as they're doing it for the sake of collecting and investment it's no sillier than paying big bucks for Star Wars action figures that never get taken out of the box.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Sheesh. People just don't have their priorities straight.

The proper thing to do with three hundred bucks is to put it away for the annual SDCC trip!

[Donald M.]

"These shoes tell you who you are,'' said Christina Chow, a junior at Thurgood Marshall High School in San Francisco, who was wearing wristband 34. "They express your personality. They speak up for you, without words. They say you're hip, that you're not a follower.''

Good lord, teenagers! "I'm hip! I'm not a follower! I stood outside a store for a whole week to buy $300 sneakers I can't wear!"

Stupid bitch.

[Puma]

Sheesh. People just don't have their priorities straight.

The proper thing to do with three hundred bucks is to put it away for the annual SDCC trip!
exactly!


even though I'm not sure I'll be attending this year; not mony, its time off from work

[SUPERECWFAN1]

This doesn't shock me. Shoes like Air Jordan's and Iverson's are really popular and valuable. My little cousin loves Iverson and wants the shoes bad lol.

In fact you think paying $ 295.00 is extreme.....imagine reading a news report from the Charlotte NC newspaper that Ric Flair's ex-wife Beth Flair demands $ 65,000 a year for clothes. Swear to god....65 grand a year for clothes. Thats what.....$5,500 a month for clothes shopping lol ?

[Chrosis]

I saw an ad for a universal TV remote that cost $10,000. Top that.

"You lost the remote!? How could you lose the remote!?!?"

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I saw an ad for a universal TV remote that cost $10,000. Top that.

"You lost the remote!? How could you lose the remote!?!?"


If you pay $ 10,000 for a remote and you lose it ...your a bigger moron than I can imagine. :p

[howyadoin]

Another sobering collision of stupidity and greed. These are truly the end times.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Another sobering collision of stupidity and greed. These are truly the end times.


Hold on.......how much does sobering collision cost ? I'm willin to pay $ 1,000 bucks for it if it looks cool. ;)

[clayholio]

Man, I had a pair of Air Jordans back in 1986, back when he still played basketball. Being only 10 years old, I did the unthinkable and played basketball in them. In fact, I've played basketball in every single pair of basketball shoes I've ever owned. What's wrong with me?

[Dan Apodaca]

Another sobering collision of stupidity and greed. These are truly the end times.

It's bothersome to me that stupid people have the money to be spent on this stuff.

[Sanagi]

Sobering Collision would be a good band name.

[Vesper]

It's no worse than any other collectable item that people throw disposable income at. I'd hazard a guess that many of the people here have spent well over $300 in comic books.

Should I even venture into "superhero statue" and "lightsaber" territory?

(You know, I never fully realized that collectable and collectible were both valid spellings. I think I always spelled it one way or the other without thinking much about it. Usually that's something I'm really anal about, too! Anyway...)

[Dan Apodaca]

It's no worse than any other collectable item that people throw disposable income at. I'd hazard a guess that many of the people here have spent well over $300 in comic books.

Yeah, but I read the comics. They don't wear the shoes. Use would be the issue at hand, here.

[Vesper]

Yeah, but I read the comics. They don't wear the shoes. Use would be the issue at hand, here.

They bought the shoes to look at/appreciate value. You bought your comics to look at/appreciate value. It's not like your comics are precisely a daily-use item. :p

[SUPERECWFAN1]

They bought the shoes to look at/appreciate value. You bought your comics to look at/appreciate value. It's not like your comics are precisely a daily-use item. :p


I don't know about that....last night I wrapped myself in my comics as images of Marisa's hot behind flashed thru my head ! ;)

[Dan Apodaca]

They bought the shoes to look at/appreciate value. You bought your comics to look at/appreciate value. It's not like your comics are precisely a daily-use item. :p

Doesn't matter. Basketball shoes don't have to be worn every day to be worn every time you play basketball.

And I didn't buy my comics to appreciate value. I bought them to read them.

[bfrank]

Doesn't matter. Basketball shoes don't have to be worn every day to be worn every time you play basketball.

And I didn't buy my comics to appreciate value. I bought them to read them.
and others buy them to put the, in plastic until they are worth $20.00 bucks...BFD...

[Quarterwolf]

It's no worse than any other collectable item that people throw disposable income at. I'd hazard a guess that many of the people here have spent well over $300 in comic books.

Should I even venture into "superhero statue" and "lightsaber" territory?

(You know, I never fully realized that collectable and collectible were both valid spellings. I think I always spelled it one way or the other without thinking much about it. Usually that's something I'm really anal about, too! Anyway...)
yes but you would be hard pressed to find a comic collector who would sit outside in the rain for a week to get a statue or comic. I think Comic Collectors are smarter then that.

Well for the most part anyway.

[Dan Apodaca]

and others buy them to put the, in plastic until they are worth $20.00 bucks...BFD...

I think that's stupid, too. What's your point?

[howyadoin]

You bought your comics to look at/appreciate value.That'd be a valid argument if:

A. Most comics actually went up in value.
B. It were easy to cash in on that value.
C. Dan were bagging and boarding his comics without reading them at all.

[Leslie Lee III]

yes but you would be hard pressed to find a comic collector who would sit outside in the rain for a week to get a statue or comic. I think Comic Collectors are smarter then that.

Well for the most part anyway.

Poor comparision. As soon as they put out an Alan Moore and Jim Lee comic that has a print run of 36 your theory can be tested. And I'd bet any amount of money that the dudes who wait in line for all the star wars movies collect comics as well. Just a hunch.

[Dan Apodaca]

C. Dan were bagging and boarding his comics without reading them at all.

I think this photo proves that not to be the case.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/danapodaca/comics.jpg

[Vesper]

That'd be a valid argument if:

A. Most comics actually went up in value.
B. It were easy to cash in on that value.
C. Dan were bagging and boarding his comics without reading them at all.

By "to look at/to appreciate value" I meant: to read and/or as a collector's item. Perhaps I should restate: someone purchasing an item for its aesthetic or financial value really has no right to scoff at another person purchasing an item for its aesthetic or financial value.

Some of the people who bought the shoes did it as an investment; others, for sentimental value; others, possibly for decor. Neither the shoes, nor any comics, have any inherent utility. Why the higher moral ground?

[Vesper]

Poor comparision. As soon as they put out an Alan Moore and Jim Lee comic that has a print run of 36 your theory can be tested. And I'd bet any amount of money that the dudes who wait in line for all the star wars movies collect comics as well. Just a hunch.

I can second this. I was at UCLA when the first Star Wars prequel was released. Do you know how long people camped outside the theater for tickets to the first viewing in Westwood? WEEKS.

[Davideaux]

$300 sneakers are an insane price.

One reason I like Shaq is because he decided to sell his sneakers for cheap and at Pay Less.

[Dan Apodaca]

By "to look at/to appreciate value" I meant: to read and/or as a collector's item. Perhaps I should restate: someone purchasing an item for its aesthetic or financial value really has no right to scoff at another person purchasing an item for its aesthetic or financial value.

Some of the people who bought the shoes did it as an investment; others, for sentimental value; others, possibly for decor. Neither the shoes, nor any comics, have any inherent utility. Why the higher moral ground?

Because we feel that there is an important difference between people who buy something for it's aesthetic value and people who buy something for it's financial value.

But actually, the shoes and the comics both have inherent utilities. Shoes are to be worn, comics are to be read.

[Sir Tim Drake]

It's no worse than any other collectable item that people throw disposable income at. I'd hazard a guess that many of the people here have spent well over $300 in comic books.

I've spent many times that sum on comic books, but I have or will read all of them.

[Rachel Grey]

Good lord, teenagers! "I'm hip! I'm not a follower! I stood outside a store for a whole week to buy $300 sneakers I can't wear!"

Stupid bitch.

My thoughts exactly. Even when when I was a teenager I knew that attitude was bloody stupid.

[Quarterwolf]

Poor comparision. As soon as they put out an Alan Moore and Jim Lee comic that has a print run of 36 your theory can be tested. And I'd bet any amount of money that the dudes who wait in line for all the star wars movies collect comics as well. Just a hunch.

A few things. There are statues with a vary limited run. That one store only got 36 pairs sets or whatever...Not the entire run was 36 pairs. So YOUR comparison is flawed. And they do release limited editions of comics. They are called Variants and I still have yet to see anyone camping outside a comic store for a week to get one.

And how does Star Wars figure into this? Those who stand in line are not waiting to get the ticket Stubs so they can put them into a case and look at them and hope their value go up. They are in line to See the movie. Plus I am sure there are people in that same line to get a grossly over priced pair of shoes were also in line for Star Wars tickets. What is your point on that one? I was talking comics and Statues.

[Vesper]

Because we feel that there is an important difference between people who buy something for it's aesthetic value and people who buy something for it's financial value.

But actually, the shoes and the comics both have inherent utilities. Shoes are to be worn, comics are to be read.

I'm under the general impression that there's more of an overlap in the people who buy stuff for aesthetic value and the people who buy stuff for financial value. (The two terms themselves are somewhat intermingled.) I'm willing to bet that a fair number of comic book fans also have some kind of statues or figurines or first-run editions or posters, etc. in their houses.

Again, there's no outright suggestion that the people who waited in line for the shoes were simply financial investors. Some of the purchasers in the article were in fact high schoolers, who implied that they associated the shoes with a part of their identity.

My point about utility was this: entertainment != utility...at least, not in my book. Comic books are not a tool, nor are they a necessity. These particular shoes, I think we've all agreed, are not being purchased for their functional utility (i.e. to be worn to protect the feet). So, I'd disagree.

[Vesper]

I've spent many times that sum on comic books, but I have or will read all of them.

Sure, but wouldn't you get a little defensive if someone got on your case about how you spent that money? Asked how many times you've actually read each of your books? Asked why you considered each book worth its price? Asked why you thought you should own it, instead of simply borrowing it? (Yes, I'm making an assumption here, but I'd at least argue that MANY comic book fans would feel defensive...as it's a rather frequent complaint that fans frequently have to justify their hobby--or at least their spending habits--to others, when perhaps they shouldn't.)

Isn't passing an arbitrary judgment that the purchasers of these shoes are "dumb bitches" or "people with messed up priorities" or whatever other derogatory terms are being tossed around...essentially the same snap judgment that comic fans often speak of being unfairly passed on them?

[howyadoin]

Isn't passing an arbitrary judgment that the purchasers of these shoes are "dumb bitches" or "people with messed up priorities" or whatever other derogatory terms are being tossed around...essentially the same snap judgment that comic fans often speak of being unfairly passed on them?Did you read any of the quotes in the article? I certainly didn't see any evidence of intelligence being exhibited.

[Vesper]

Did you read any of the quotes in the article? I certainly didn't see any evidence of intelligence being exhibited.

People were expressing opinions. I don't think their affinity for expensive sport shoes automatically makes them idiots. People spend their disposable income on any number of things I'd personally consider to be moronic.

[Tom]

People spend their disposable income on any number of things I'd personally consider to be moronic.
Right, so why take people in this thread to task for feeling exactly the same way?

I have no problem saying that I think $300 for a pair of sneakers is frigging ridiculous. If someone wants to turn around and criticize my $20 a week comics habit, have at it.

[Slappy san]

Comic geeks criticizing someone's speding habits. :D

They should Triumph to the shoe store and a comic convention. That would be comedy right up there with the Star Wars one.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Buying anything at any price without the intent of using it is quite ridiculous, if you ask me, and it gets even more ridiculous when you're buying something expensive and exclusive and don't do anything with it. Whether it's buying shoes and never wearing them or buying paintings and hiding them in a vault, it's the same situation.
I honestly don't see why some people seem to think that it's in any way similar to buying comic books to read them.

[Donald M.]

People were expressing opinions. I don't think their affinity for expensive sport shoes automatically makes them idiots. People spend their disposable income on any number of things I'd personally consider to be moronic.

If that's true, then by your own logic you can't criticize anyone in this thread for thinking paying $300 for sneakers is stupid.

It's not even the $300 dollars I think is dumb, people spend more money on stupider things. Tt's the waiting outside the store for a week that gets me. I think waiting in line week or more, hell one night (as often happens for new game consoles) is dumb. I just don't see, for example, waiting outside a movie theater for weeks when it's not like I'm gonna have trouble getting a ticket on opening day.

[tricksterpup]

Man, I had a pair of Air Jordans back in 1986, back when he still played basketball. Being only 10 years old, I did the unthinkable and played basketball in them. In fact, I've played basketball in every single pair of basketball shoes I've ever owned. What's wrong with me?
you were a lousy basketball player? :rolleyes:

[Leslie Lee III]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Georgia]A few things. There are statues with a vary limited run. That one store only got 36 pairs sets or whatever...Not the entire run was 36 pairs. So YOUR comparison is flawed. And they do release limited editions of comics. They are called Variants and I still have yet to see anyone camping outside a comic store for a week to get one.

Again, you haven't made a decent comparision. When they print a comic that you'd HAVE to wait in line for days to have a chance of getting and it was something iconic on the level of Jordan's then your theory could be tested, and likely proven false. You think people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on single issues of comics yet are above waiting in line for them? I dobut it.

Plus I am sure there are people in that same line to get a grossly over priced pair of shoes were also in line for Star Wars tickets.

Having seen the people in line for Star Wars I highly doubt there is an overlap. And it doesn't matter what you do with the ticket, waiting in line for it is completely unnecessary and ridiculous. In this case it's actually a LOT more justified.

[Gilda Dent]

I'm a shoe person myself. I've got about 60 pairs, and have been known to buy three of the same model of shoes in different colors so that I'd be sure of having one to match any outfit I intended to wear. I have a few pairs I've yet to wear, but I do actually intend to wear them.

The silly part here for me is something that's always baffled me a little, and that's buying clothing based on branding. I'll never for the life of me understand buying something, or paying a premium to get the brand name. Which isn't to say that I don't buy brand name items; I got a new Nicole Miller dress yesterday for the dinner Emily and I will be having on her birthday. The difference is that I didn't get this particular dress because it's a Nicole Miller, I got it because I liked the dress and how it looks on me, and, thank heaven, they had it in my size.

Buying items that are too valuable to use for their intended purpose has never made sense to me, regardless of the item and the purpose. Buying CGC comics you never intend to read seems silly. Buying shoes you never intend to wear seems equally silly.

On the other hand, it's possible to look at the shoes not as a clothing item, but as a trophy, a display item, a piece of art. This again, seems silly to me given what this particular item is, a reproduction of two pairs of basketball shoes, but most collectibles fall into the same category for me. While I think it's a foolish waste of time an money, so long as they're getting value from this expenditure both in opportunity cost and financially, it's cool with me.

There's nothing for which I'd wait a week in line to buy at a premium.

Looking at the article itself, I did find some of the things there amusing:

"Wearing them would be stupid,'' said Eddie Williams, 18, of Oakland, who had been waiting in line since last Saturday. "If you wear them, the value goes down really fast. They get creases in them.''

I have to wonder how they intend to display their new trophy shoes if they aren't going to wear them.

"These shoes tell you who you are,'' said Christina Chow, a junior at Thurgood Marshall High School in San Francisco, who was wearing wristband 34. "They express your personality. They speak up for you, without words. They say you're hip, that you're not a follower.''

The first part I can kinda relate to. How we choose to dress and the appearance we choose is a part of how we define who we are. It's indicative of how we feel about ourselves and has an effect on how others see us. On the other hand, theres a difference between clothing as a means of self expression and clothing as a means of self-definition. The former is something everyone does, the latter an unfortunate side effect of advertising and pop culture.

Being hip, by definition makes you a follower.

"It's not the buzz item it used to be,'' Marshall said. "It's more jewelry these days. Also wheel rims and gold teeth. Sneakers aren't the only accessory anymore.''

Hee hee. I am, to my great shame, a huge Judge Judy fan. There've probably been a good couple of dozen cases over the past few years of disputes involving rims, and they dismayingly always seem to involve rims put on some old broken down vehicle. Sometimes I think the people buying these cars and trucks are getting the cheapest one's possible to save money from their budget for the rims: Hmmm, I have $1000 to spend on a new vehicle. The rims I want to put on it cost $600, so that leaves $400 for the car. Time to start shopping.

And gold teeth are a desirable accessory? That seems . . . strange. Porcelain provides a much better match for the teeth and is actually more expensive, which would seem to make it a better choice for conspicuous consumption. Jewelry I can understand. I never leave the house with a pair of earrings and usually have a matching chain or bracelet. The cool thing about jewelry is you can get really nice looking stuff that's indistiguishable from the real thing at a fraction of the cost, making jewelry the perfect mode of self-expression without spending a ton of money.

"When you love a shoe or a woman, you go to great lengths for them,'' he said. "Shoes and women are the most satisfying things in the world.''

Truer words were never spoken.

Gilda

[Slappy san]

Thing is...the Jordans I've had are by far the best b-ball shoes I EVER owned. So its the name and the quality of the shoe....well for me.

[Gilda Dent]

Thing is...the Jordans I've had are by far the best b-ball shoes I EVER owned. So its the name and the quality of the shoe....well for me.

Sure, it makes sense to buy the shoe for the quality of the shoe.

Are the Air Jordans any better in quality than equivlilent shoes made by Nike that don't have the celebrity endorsement, or is there some difference in the shoes themselves that makes them better than the standard versions?

I play baskeball three or four times a week, and I wear Reebok classics, plain white, that I got for $60. I just don't see the point in paying extra for something primarily intended to be utilitarian.

Gilda

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I do find it funny were all laughin at these guys for paying $ 295.00 for 2 pairs of shoes they'll never wear. And here some of us ( some mind you...) will pay a lot for a comic and not read it.

People collect what they collect. Be it shoes , cards ect ect. ;)

[west3man]

That's pretty silly, but anyone who owns a CGC graded and sealed comic is just as silly probably.
S'kinda what I was thinking, but even if it's NOT sealed, an expensive comic that's already been cheaply reprinted needn't be read... or purchased, for that matter.

It's about collectibility.

[howyadoin]

"These shoes tell you who you are,'' said Christina Chow, a junior at Thurgood Marshall High School in San Francisco, who was wearing wristband 34. "They express your personality. They speak up for you, without words. They say you're hip, that you're not a follower.''

The first part I can kinda relate to. How we choose to dress and the appearance we choose is a part of how we define who we are. It's indicative of how we feel about ourselves and has an effect on how others see us.But nobody is ever gonna see these people wear these sneakers. Hell, considering how scared they were of being mugged on their way home, I'd say nobody is ever gonna see the sneakers at all.

Ergo, they say nothing whatsoever about the people.

[howyadoin]

I just don't see, for example, waiting outside a movie theater for weeks when it's not like I'm gonna have trouble getting a ticket on opening day.Plus, to take this comparison to its logical conclusion, if you did wait a week for movie tickets, you wouldn't get the ticket and then take it home and put it somewhere safe without actually watching the movie.

[Vesper]

Right, so why take people in this thread to task for feeling exactly the same way?

I have no problem saying that I think $300 for a pair of sneakers is frigging ridiculous. If someone wants to turn around and criticize my $20 a week comics habit, have at it.

I was just pointing out that the "injured party" attitude that many comic book fans have (as a niche market) about their hobby is hypocritical if the same people are out to castigate others about their hobbies/investments. Moreover, some people in this thread were suggesting that just because they disagreed with a purchase a person made, said person was automatically an idiot or a trend whore.

I wasn't trying to pass judgment on people for um...passing judgment...but rather, I was trying to argue for a suspense of judgment altogether.

I happen to think that gambling, buying lotto tickets, playing golf, watching football, and many other activities are moronic...but it doesn't mean that I think all people who engage in those activities are idiots.

[Vesper]

Plus, to take this comparison to its logical conclusion, if you did wait a week for movie tickets, you wouldn't get the ticket and then take it home and put it somewhere safe without actually watching the movie.

It's not really any different from any other sports trophy/decoration (or for that matter, piece of art) that people have in their homes, except that these people were willing to wait in line for it.

To be fair to the people who were waiting in line for the shoes--at least it's a valued, rare item they're getting. The Star Wars fans who camped out for 41 days before the prequels were merely waiting around for the experience of seeing something first...that everyone else in the nation could see without waiting in any sort of line, a couple days after the release.

[Johnny_Storm]

When it comes to collection I say to each his own, within limits. People collect tons of things I see as wasteful but they would think the same about my collecting habits. I'll tell the truth I'm crazy enough to pay over $50 & $70 for items from outer space, heck I'd pay $1,000's for a multi-day trip to space.

[howyadoin]

It's not really any different from any other sports trophy/decoration (or for that matter, piece of art) that people have in their homes, except that these people were willing to wait in line for it.

To be fair to the people who were waiting in line for the shoes--at least it's a valued, rare item they're getting. The Star Wars fans who camped out for 41 days before the prequels were merely waiting around for the experience of seeing something first...that everyone else in the nation could see without waiting in any sort of line, a couple days after the release.Sorry, but I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here.

[Gilda Dent]

Sorry, but I'm honestly not sure what you're saying here.

I think she means that for the fans buying these, these are intended as a display item like an autographed baseball.

Gilda reminisces:

I remember as a little kid, I was out playing baseball with my friends in the Sandlot (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108037/) near our house. Someone hit the ball over the fence, so I ran home to get a baseball my dad had sitting in a display case on the fireplace mantle signed by the candy bar girl, Babe Ruth. We played for awhile, then that ball got lost, and I had to explain to my dad what happened. He was upset, but understood, especially because the kind old blind man who owned the house next door gave me his baseball signed by the 1927 Yankees to replace it.

What I hadn't realized was that the ball wasn't just a ball to be thrown and hit, it was a symbol of something more important, a symbol of childhood innocence.

The same is probably true of those waiting in line waiting for the shoes. We look at the shoes and see footwear. They look at them and see Amazing Fantasy #15.

Gilda

[howyadoin]

I think she means that for the fans buying these, these are intended as a display item like an autographed baseball.

Gilda reminisces:

I remember as a little kid, I was out playing baseball with my friends in the Sandlot (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108037/) near our house. Someone hit the ball over the fence, so I ran home to get a baseball my dad had sitting in a display case on the fireplace mantle signed by the candy bar girl, Babe Ruth. We played for awhile, then that ball got lost, and I had to explain to my dad what happened. He was upset, but understood, especially because the kind old blind man who owned the house next door gave me his baseball signed by the 1927 Yankees to replace it.

What I hadn't realized was that the ball wasn't just a ball to be thrown and hit, it was a symbol of something more important, a symbol of childhood innocence.

The same is probably true of those waiting in line waiting for the shoes. We look at the shoes and see footwear. They look at them and see Amazing Fantasy #15.I see what you're sayin', but the sneakers in question were never worn by Michael Jordan, nor, from what I read, were they signed or even touched by him. They're not a piece of sports history any more than a George Foreman Grill is.

(I've also got my doubts that most of those kids even know who Michael Jordan is, but that's a separate issue...)

[Quarterwolf]

Again, you haven't made a decent comparision. When they print a comic that you'd HAVE to wait in line for days to have a chance of getting and it was something iconic on the level of Jordan's then your theory could be tested, and likely proven false. You think people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on single issues of comics yet are above waiting in line for them? I dobut it.
Yeah I have. There is not a comic in the world I would wait in line for. Days or hours. And Jordans are not Iconic. They are SHOES.

Having seen the people in line for Star Wars I highly doubt there is an overlap. And it doesn't matter what you do with the ticket, waiting in line for it is completely unnecessary and ridiculous. In this case it's actually a LOT more justified.
And she throws in the insult. Not everyone who loves Star Wars is a freak. To say otherwise is just not very smart. And staying in line for Shoes is more justified? Maybe if you are so self absorbed to think shoes are a staus symbol.

[Dan Apodaca]

I wasn't trying to pass judgment on people for um...passing judgment...but rather, I was trying to argue for a suspense of judgment altogether.

You better go looking for some robots, then. As far as I know, we're all humans, here, and we have opinions and pass judgement.

Except for Cronin, maybe.

[Vesper]

You better go looking for some robots, then. As far as I know, we're all humans, here, and we have opinions and pass judgement.

Except for Cronin, maybe.

I'll be sure to invest in some "jump to conclusions" mats for you! ^^

[Vesper]

I see what you're sayin', but the sneakers in question were never worn by Michael Jordan, nor, from what I read, were they signed or even touched by him. They're not a piece of sports history any more than a George Foreman Grill is.

(I've also got my doubts that most of those kids even know who Michael Jordan is, but that's a separate issue...)

Presumably the shoes are a piece of pop culture history, if nothing else.

[Leslie Lee III]

Yeah I have. There is not a comic in the world I would wait in line for. Days or hours. And Jordans are not Iconic. They are SHOES.

They're iconic shoes. And I don't care if you wouldn't wait in line for a comic, you're trying to suggest that no one would. That sounds pretty absurd considering the price people pay for comics


And she throws in the insult. Not everyone who loves Star Wars is a freak. To say otherwise is just not very smart. And staying in line for Shoes is more justified? Maybe if you are so self absorbed to think shoes are a staus symbol.

No "she'"s here just like there is no insult. I don't think it's very smart to just assume that the people who are waiting on these shoes were also in line for stories, there's not even a hint that that would be true. And staying in line for shoes when it's the ONLY way you can get them makes much more sense than waiting days in line to see Star Wars when it is TOTALLY unnecessary. I know when I saw it I just went and bought a ticket without waiting. At least getting the shoes necessitates a way. Seeing Star Wars doesn't.

[Quarterwolf]

They're iconic shoes. And I don't care if you wouldn't wait in line for a comic, you're trying to suggest that no one would. That sounds pretty absurd considering the price people pay for comics
Ummm...No they are not Iconic. I see nothing Iconic about shoes. Just because some people who feel the need to have clothing define them does not make the clothing itself Iconic. Do they have the name of a celebirity on them? Yes. But they are made the same way as a blue light special at K-Mart.

No "she'"s here just like there is no insult. I don't think it's very smart to just assume that the people who are waiting on these shoes were also in line for stories, there's not even a hint that that would be true. And staying in line for shoes when it's the ONLY way you can get them makes much more sense than waiting days in line to see Star Wars when it is TOTALLY unnecessary. I know when I saw it I just went and bought a ticket without waiting. At least getting the shoes necessitates a way. Seeing Star Wars doesn't.
Yet you just assume that those who wait in line for Star Wars would not wait in line for shoes. Not very smart of you either. And I doubt that is the only way to get the shoes. Ever heard of E-Bay? Yeah I thought you would have. And noone has to wait in line for shoes they have no intent to wear. That just makes no sence to me.

This has to be the dumbest thing I have had a conversation with some about over the last month. I think I am done with this thread.

[Slappy san]

Ummm...No they are not Iconic. I see nothing Iconic about shoes. Just because some people who feel the need to have clothing define them does not make the clothing itself Iconic. Do they have the name of a celebirity on them? Yes. But they are made the same way as a blue light special at K-Mart.


Yet you just assume that those who wait in line for Star Wars would not wait in line for shoes. Not very smart of you either. And I doubt that is the only way to get the shoes. Ever heard of E-Bay? Yeah I thought you would have. And noone has to wait in line for shoes they have no intent to wear. That just makes no sence to me.

This has to be the dumbest thing I have had a conversation with some about over the last month. I think I am done with this thread.

I'm sure he has heard of E-bay. Have you heard of insane mark-up?

[Quarterwolf]

I'm sure he has heard of E-bay. Have you heard of insane mark-up?

It was never a question of insane Mark Up. It WAS a question of waiting outside the store being the only way to get the shoes.

[Slappy san]

It was never a question of insane Mark Up. It WAS a question of waiting outside the store being the only way to get the shoes.

Thought you were done?

Anyways, you bag on people for standing in line as being....less than smart. Seems smarter than paying 2-3 times for the shoes on the secondary market.

[Vesper]

It was never a question of insane Mark Up. It WAS a question of waiting outside the store being the only way to get the shoes.

I think you're taking Leslie's comment a bit too literally. I believe the general idea was that this is the only source for getting the shoes without a middle man. They mentioned in the article that people were already willing to buy the shoes on ebay for twice their retail price. The people waiting in line simply decided that their time was worth more than their money (or that it was an easy way to make $300...I dunno).

edit: jinx! I'm slow.

[Slappy san]

BTW I have owned two pairs of Jordans. Both times they were on sale. One pair was $49.99 and the other was less than $40. So I was ready to call these people out for paying $125 for the shoes let alone standing in a Star Wars/PS2'esque line to pay $295 for two sets. Then I thought of all the sad people I met while working a comic shop. Yep....shut me up real quick. :)

[dougputhoff]

Two hundred ninety-five dollars for a pair of sneakers.

And there are people still recovering from Hurricane Katrina.

ARRRRRRGH!

[Gilda Dent]

A decent parallel to comic fans might be that a great many fans will wait in line for a considerable amount of time to get a comic signed or a sketch. Theme park enthusiasts spend much, much more time standing in line than actually riding rides. Fans of a particular author might stand in line for hours to get a book signed. Trek fans pay a huge fee at conventions to get signatures from the actors (Wil Wheaton has a theory about this--he thinks it's not about the signature, it's about the contact, the little 30 second conversation you get with the star when you're getting the sig).

I personally don't have a problem standing in line for an hour to ride a good coaster, but wouldn't wait four. In between somewhere is the line, depending on the ride and the crowd.

Some people have a longer threshhold. As I said before, I think it's silly, and the comments made by some of those in line seem like they're investing more of themselves in this than is healthy, but that's their choice to make.

Gilda

[Slappy san]

Two hundred ninety-five dollars for a pair of sneakers.

And there are people still recovering from Hurricane Katrina.

ARRRRRRGH!

Two pairs.

xxxx

[Vesper]

Ah, now see? Here's something (http://worldofwonder.net/archives/2005/Sep/12/louisiana_purchase.wow) to get up in arms about:

Debit cards valued at $2,000 each that the Red Cross handed out to victims of the Katrina flooding in New Orleans so they might buy survival essentials are being used to buy luxury items in other cities. An employee at the Louis Vuitton boutique in the Lenox Square Mall in the tiny Buckhead section of Atlanta said, "It doesn't say anything on the card other than alcohol, tobacco, and firearms cannot be purchased with it. There's nothing legally that prevents us from taking it, unfortunately." He said that two woman had used their cards to buy $800 signature handbags from the store. (NY Daily News)

[Quarterwolf]

Thought you were done?

Anyways, you bag on people for standing in line as being....less than smart. Seems smarter than paying 2-3 times for the shoes on the secondary market.

Well you posted so I posted. I guess I am wishy Washy that way.

And I never said they were not smart. Just that in my opinion it was not smart to wait in line for a week for shoes.

[Slappy san]

Well you posted so I posted. I guess I am wishy Washy that way.

And I never said they were not smart. Just that in my opinion it was not smart to wait in line for a week for shoes.

But it's smarter to pay 2 to 3 times as much through a secondary seller? :confused:

[Johnny_Storm]

Oh yeah this reminds me of the Reebok Ice Creams (http://www.pickyourshoes.com/collectible/reebok_ice_cream_lo_yel_nvy.htm) Pharell was sporting, they do look tempting. I like the ice cream carton desgin for the box. Too bad the price won't be coming down anytime soon $299.99 and their still selling out like wild fire :( . Howyadoin you could make a fortune designing shoes if your current arrangement doesn't pan out.

[Slappy san]

Oh yeah this reminds me of the Reebok Ice Creams (http://www.pickyourshoes.com/collectible/reebok_ice_cream_lo_yel_nvy.htm) Pharell was sporting, they do look tempting. I like the ice cream carton desgin for the box. Too bad the price won't be coming down anytime soon $299.99 and their still selling out like wild fire :( . Howyadoin you could make a fortune designing shoes if your current arrangement doesn't pan out.

Those are some fugly shoes.

[StoneGold]

Never underestimate the power of shoes.

http://www.bundypics.com/222d/222_07.jpg

[tricksterpup]

here are some real shoes that are just for balls.

http://www.weddingfads.com/ProductImages/glassslipperthumb.jpg

[Dan Apodaca]

I'll be sure to invest in some "jump to conclusions" mats for you! ^^

I don't see where I jumped to any conclusions. You said you were trying to argue for a suspension of judgement. I'm telling you that's futile, because everybody makes judgements about everything, and it's ridiculous to think any less of people for passing judgement on something.

[Dan Apodaca]

And I don't care if you wouldn't wait in line for a comic...

Well, that's too bad, because that's the issue at hand, here. All the people who think that the folks who bought the shoes made a stupid decision are speaking from their point of view. We're all speaking for ourselves.

[Gilda Dent]

Confession time: I have a designer purse/wallet combination that between them cost $420.

In my defense, however, I didn't buy them, they were a present from my darling wife, and I do use both on a nearly daily basis.

Gilda

[Dan Apodaca]

A decent parallel to comic fans might be that a great many fans will wait in line for a considerable amount of time to get a comic signed or a sketch. Theme park enthusiasts spend much, much more time standing in line than actually riding rides. Fans of a particular author might stand in line for hours to get a book signed. Trek fans pay a huge fee at conventions to get signatures from the actors (Wil Wheaton has a theory about this--he thinks it's not about the signature, it's about the contact, the little 30 second conversation you get with the star when you're getting the sig).

I personally don't have a problem standing in line for an hour to ride a good coaster, but wouldn't wait four. In between somewhere is the line, depending on the ride and the crowd.

Some people have a longer threshhold. As I said before, I think it's silly, and the comments made by some of those in line seem like they're investing more of themselves in this than is healthy, but that's their choice to make.

Gilda

See, I don't think that it's just about the wait. I think it's a combination of the wait and the price that make us think it's a stupid thing to do.

[Rachel Grey]

See, I don't think that it's just about the wait. I think it's a combination of the wait and the price that make us think it's a stupid thing to do.

And the whole non-use thing coupled with the moronic remarks made by the people in line.

[howyadoin]

And the whole non-use thing coupled with the moronic remarks made by the people in line.Yeah, the bullshit hipper-than-thou rationalization was pretty sad. If you want an expensive pair of shoes you'll never wear, that's your decision. But stop believing your own hype.

[Rachel Grey]

Yeah, the bullshit hipper-than-thou rationalization was pretty sad. If you want an expensive pair of shoes you'll never wear, that's your decision. But stop believing your own hype.

I dont suppose we can brand people with a symbol that means "Moron" so that we can keep them from breeding? Sigh, thought not.

[Trystenn]

I dont suppose we can brand people with a symbol that means "Moron" so that we can keep them from breeding? Sigh, thought not.
Interesting, what would the symbol be if we could do it?

[Rachel Grey]

Interesting, what would the symbol be if we could do it?

A portrait of Paris Hilton? A brain with the no smoking/drugs/drink/etc circle over it? A big zero?

[Trystenn]

A portrait of Paris Hilton? A brain with the no smoking/drugs/drink/etc circle over it? A big zero?
How bout something simple like a big ol black/white dot right smack on their forehead.

[Leslie Lee III]

Well, that's too bad, because that's the issue at hand, here.

No, it wasn't. He was making claims about comic book collector's in general. Ones that I challenged given the behaviour we've seen from them and how much they're willing to pay for comics they won't read. When that was pointed out THEN he tried to turn it into what he'd do personally. That's fine if he wouldn't wait in line, but I didn't make a post in this thread that said, "Well, this is no sillier than when Quarterwolf waits in line for days to get comics."

[Rachel Grey]

How bout something simple like a big ol black/white dot right smack on their forehead.

I guess. Though for simplicity I'd prefer the Zero as it's easy to do and it has some measure of meaning.

[Trystenn]

I guess. Though for simplicity I'd prefer the Zero as it's easy to do and it has some measure of meaning.
Nah cuz then people would get cute and make it into an eye or something.

[howyadoin]

Here, maybe this'll help the people who don't understand the scoffing in this thread. Imagine a group of speculators talking about slabbed comics and drooling over the profits while they droned on about how they'd never read a comic.

Now imagine how you'd react if one of the speculators said, "These comics tell you who you are. They express your personality. They speak up for you, without words. They say you're hip, that you're not a follower.''

Would you nod your head thoughtfully, or would you laugh?

[Rachel Grey]

Nah cuz then people would get cute and make it into an eye or something.

That's what the neocortex bomb is for.

[Trystenn]

That's what the neocortex bomb is for.
Aye, good thinking Ms Grey.

[Vesper]

I don't see where I jumped to any conclusions. You said you were trying to argue for a suspension of judgement. I'm telling you that's futile, because everybody makes judgements about everything, and it's ridiculous to think any less of people for passing judgement on something.

I was being cute. Jumping to conclusions was referring to the human condition in general, and more specifically to the people who conflated what they perceived as a dubious purchase with the IQ of the purchasers.

And surely you don't think I've lived as long as I have without realizing that any moral outrage about people making arbitrary social judgments is futile? I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I'm wont to do...and merely attempting to encourage a moderation of opinion, not expecting it. (Although, saying "it's ridiculous to think any less of people for passing judgement on something" is a rather sweeping generalization, and I'd disagree in many instances. But, I'm assuming you were addressing the situation at hand.)

Honestly, the part of me that passes automatic and harsh (i.e. unqualified) judgments on people pretty much views anyone who spends exorbitant amounts on pop culture in the same light.

[Rachel Grey]

Aye, good thinking Ms Grey.

Thank you! :)

Now the question is: How do we get the show started? After all, one of the first targets of this initiative will be Dubya himself.

[Trystenn]

Thank you! :)

Now the question is: How do we get the show started? After all, one of the first targets of this initiative will be Dubya himself.
Convince him its a mood ring.

[Rachel Grey]

Convince him its a mood ring.

Ooh! Good thinking! :)

Dubya: Well, ah just had ta get one for myself, all tha cool kids are wearing them! :D

[Trystenn]

Ooh! Good thinking! :)

Dubya: Well, ah just had ta get one for myself, all tha cool kids are wearing them! :D
Tell him Black means "trying your best".

I know thats not a mood, but he doesnt.

[Rachel Grey]

Tell him Black means "trying your best".

I know thats not a mood, but he doesnt.


Perfect. And then keep a camera on him at all times so we can record the look on his face when someone cruelly informs him of the mark's true meaning :D

[Trystenn]

Perfect. And then keep a camera on him at all times so we can record the look on his face when someone cruelly informs him of the mark's true meaning :D
"B-b-b-b-but im really am trying my best :( See? *points to his head*"

[Dan Apodaca]

And surely you don't think I've lived as long as I have without realizing that any moral outrage about people making arbitrary social judgments is futile? I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I'm wont to do...and merely attempting to encourage a moderation of opinion, not expecting it. (Although, saying "it's ridiculous to think any less of people for passing judgement on something" is a rather sweeping generalization, and I'd disagree in many instances. But, I'm assuming you were addressing the situation at hand.)

Not really. I'm not saying that any and every judgement someone makes is valid, I'm saying that their right to make a judgement is valid.

The act of passing judgement, itself, is not evil or wrong, though the judgements that are made can often be.

[Rachel Grey]

"B-b-b-b-but im really am trying my best :( See? *points to his head*"

The Day the World Laughed Itself to Death.

[Trystenn]

The Day the World Laughed Itself to Death.
My Gawd that would so awesome......

[Vesper]

Not really. I'm not saying that any and every judgement someone makes is valid, I'm saying that their right to make a judgement is valid.

The act of passing judgement, itself, is not evil or wrong, though the judgements that are made can often be.

It depends how you define the act of "passing judgment." I'd agree that the free expression of all opinions should be permissible (and again, I wasn't trying to prevent that entirely here--just presenting other considerations), but on the condition that the manner in which opinions are expressed is temperate, and doesn't pass the bounds of fair discussion.

Passing judgment and holding an opinion mean two entirely different things in my book.