I need a new PC in order to play the game F.E.A.R.

[nervmeister]

What kind of PC do you recommend I get? (Vaio, Cybertron, Alienware, etc.?)

[Trystenn]

What kind of PC do you recommend I get? (Vaio, Cybertron, Alienware, etc.?)
Vaio was the one i used to play it, its worht it, good game.

[Jeff Brady]

I say save a few hundred dollars and build one yourself. It's really not hard to do.

[Spike-X]

I say save a few hundred dollars and build one yourself. It's really not hard to do.
I'm planning to do that. Hopefully four weeks from now.

[cable guy]

I say save a few hundred dollars and build one yourself. It's really not hard to do.

My brother does that for other people alot.

[Tadhg Adams]

It really depends on what you want and what you want to spend. If you're looking at spending 2 grand, I'd say build it yourself. That way you can have a completely customized, top of the line machine.

If you want to stay in the sub-1000 range, I'd go with Dell since you will not beat their prices. For example right now after $100 mail-in rebate you can buy a 2.8Ghz Dual Core Dimension desktop with 17" Digital Flat Panel for 679.00 dollars.

[BlairH]

Build it yourself! Just get a decent ATX case, a power supply, a couple of drives, a PCI Express motherboard, a good graphics card, some RAM, a processor, a few cooling fans, etc. It's easy! In fact, here's one I made earlier (see attachments)

If you have any questions about buying individual components, or if you want any advice PM me.

Or alternatively, if you have lots of money to spare, get an alienware (overpriced, but damn are they worth it!)

[BlairH]

If you want to stay in the sub-1000 range, I'd go with Dell since you will not beat their prices. For example right now after $100 mail-in rebate you can buy a 2.8Ghz Dual Core Dimension desktop with 17" Digital Flat Panel for 679.00 dollars.
But what kind of graphics card does that have? FEAR needs a god graphics card.

[Tadhg Adams]

But what kind of graphics card does that have? FEAR needs a god graphics card.

Only a 128 Meg X300, but that doesn't matter, you can go buy your own video card and put it in, and it's still a better deal or you can upgrade. The LCD and Processor alone in that Dell would cost you over 500.00, then you have Hard drive, Motherboard, RAM, Case, Optical Drive, OS.

[BlairH]

Only a 128 Meg X300, but that doesn't matter, you can go buy your own video card and put it in, and it's still a better deal or you can upgrade. The LCD and Processor alone in that Dell would cost you over 500.00, then you have Hard drive, Motherboard, RAM, Case, Optical Drive, OS.

(cannabalises for parts!)

My old old old computer was a Dell (before I started building my own) the only problem I found is that they don't use industry standard power units or motherboards (plus the standard dell power unit is only rated at 250watts. Insufficient in my opinion!) this makes upgrading a pain.

That said, they are affordable and reliable.

[Tadhg Adams]

(plus the standard dell power unit is only rated at 250watts. Insufficient in my opinion!)

You're right. Your dell was very very old.

[BlairH]

You're right. Your dell was very very old.

Yeah, that was back in 2000.

Still, I've heard that even the new Dell XPS systems only have power units rated for 400 watts. This is still what I consider to be underpowered if you are going to be doing any overclocking, running RAID arrays etc.

[Tadhg Adams]

Yeah, that was back in 2000.

Still, I've heard that even the new Dell XPS systems only have power units rated for 400 watts. This is still what I consider to be underpowered if you are going to be doing any overclocking, running RAID arrays etc.

And have you gotten the impression that Nerve wants to do any of that?

[BlairH]

And have you gotten the impression that Nerve wants to do any of that?

When I got my first PC I didn't want to do any of that...That committment lasted a whole week.

If he eventually wants to upgrade, I guess it would be more prudent to get a system with a power supply and mo-bo that one can actually upgrade. See, Dell's strategy with their proprietary power supply and motherboard is that once the system outlives it's usefullness, it can't be upgaded, forcing you to buy a new system instead of simply getting new components.

If he has to get a pre-built, affordable PC, I'd reccommend MESH or Evesham much more highly than Dell. They are a tad better for gaming and upgradability.

Furthermore, RE: Dual Core: Dual core is no doubt the way of the future, however, I'd wait untill the cores scale to higher clock speeds before purchasing.

[nervmeister]

And have you gotten the impression that Nerve wants to do any of that?Yeah. Your gonna have to send me a manual if I'm going to do any of that. And what in God's name is "dual-core" and what does it enable you to do? Sounds neat though.

[Jeff Brady]

Dual core processor - two processors in one.

And really, the motherboards come with manuals. It's so freaking easy.

[BlairH]

Dual core processor - two processors in one.

And really, the motherboards come with manuals. It's so freaking easy.

It's so easy, even I can do it! (and I can even boast about it on forums by posting pics)

Fear my dual-core, dual monitor setup!

[nervmeister]

Blair, do you really need that much hardware? God. What the hell do you do with all of that.

[Spike-X]

"Need"? What is this "need" of which you speak?

[Leslie Lee III]

I'd recommend building one yourself as well if you think you can do it. Get your parts from http://www.newegg.com

[BlairH]

"Need"? What is this "need" of which you speak?
Exactly! At the end of the day we can't take our money with us when we pass. I don't smoke, drink or take drugs so that eases the financial burden quite a bit (so I can spend my hard earned cash -and my student loan- on cool stuff!)

[Spike-X]

Nice rig btw way, Blair.

One question, though - why does your mousepad have neon lights around it?

[Spike-X]

But what kind of graphics card does that have? FEAR needs a god graphics card.
I fear this isn't a typo.

[Spike-X]

Anyway, this is basically the system I plan to build. Any comments/suggestions?

GigaByte K8NF-9 Motherboard - I've researched this fairly extensively, and it seems to support the rest of the parts on my list, and can do everything I need it to do.

AMD Athlon 64 3000 CPU - Fast enough for what I need, and I'm told that AMD CPUs have the edge over Intel in desktop systems these days.

128Mb Radeon 9250 graphics card - I'm not a gamer, nor do I plan to become one. The most graphics intensive application I plan to run will be Photoshop, so I figure this card will be good enough.

200Gb SATA HD - any advice on brands to aim for/steer clear of?

1Gb Kingston DDR 400 RAM (2 x 512) - should be enough for what I want to do, and I'm told it's a good brand.

LG 16x dual layer DVD RW - I've read some good reviews of this model.

No sound card for now - I'm told on-board sound is pretty good these days, so I'll see how I go with that. I can always get one later.

Case - dunno. I'm sure I'll find something sexy-looking for a reasonable price.


This parts list is based on an ad a shop in town ran in the paper a week or so ago. The prices at this place are very good, and I will be taking somebody along with me who knows a lot more about this stuff than I do.

[Tadhg Adams]

Exactly! At the end of the day we can't take our money with us when we pass. I don't smoke, drink or take drugs so that eases the financial burden quite a bit (so I can spend my hard earned cash -and my student loan- on cool stuff!)


Is that an mx700 or mx900?

[MKTerra]

Yeah. Your gonna have to send me a manual if I'm going to do any of that. And what in God's name is "dual-core" and what does it enable you to do? Sounds neat though.Like Jeff Brady says, dual core means two processors. As I understand, it helps with multitasking, and produces less heat than a single faster/denser chip.

[Jeff Brady]

Anyway, this is basically the system I plan to build. Any comments/suggestions?

Get two gigs of RAM. You'll be surprised how much of it gets used as you get further with Photoshop.

AMD & Intel are neck & neck, really. AMD is great for overclocking, but I doubt you'll be into that. The new dual core Intels are likely faster, but too expensive at this point. I'd recommend nothing less than 3.2 ghz.

Everything else seems cool to me.

[Spike-X]

Get two gigs of RAM. You'll be surprised how much of it gets used as you get further with Photoshop.

Depending how tight my budget is, I might have to start with 1 Gb and get more later. Good to know, though, thanks.

AMD & Intel are neck & neck, really. AMD is great for overclocking, but I doubt you'll be into that. The new dual core Intels are likely faster, but too expensive at this point. I'd recommend nothing less than 3.2 ghz.


Is there really that much of a difference between 3.0 and 3.2 gHz, performance-wise? It's a huge leap cost-wise (more than 50%), and I don't want to pay that much extra unless it's really going to be worth it.

[Jeff Brady]

Is there really that much of a difference between 3.0 and 3.2 gHz, performance-wise? It's a huge leap cost-wise (more than 50%), and I don't want to pay that much extra unless it's really going to be worth it.

50%?? Where are you buying from, man?

Edit: Nevermind. 3.0 will be fine. 2.0 is just so slow; before I upgraded, I had a 1.6 AMD. It was like wading through mud.

[Spike-X]

50%?? Where are you buying from, man?
The price list I have here has

AMD 3000 - $140
AMD 3200 - $223
AMD 3500 - $299

(all 64-bit, socket 939)

(these prices are in Australian dollars)

[BlairH]

Is that an mx700 or mx900?

My logitech mouse? Neither. It's a G7 laser/wireless gaming mouse.

[Spike-X]

Interestingly, there's hardly any difference between Intel 3.0 and 3.2 Gb - $158 and $175, respectively.

[Tadhg Adams]

My logitech mouse? Neither. It's a G7 laser/wireless gaming mouse.

I love it when companies slap "gaming" on a label.

[Spike-X]

50%?? Where are you buying from, man?

Edit: Nevermind. 3.0 will be fine. 2.0 is just so slow; before I upgraded, I had a 1.6 AMD. It was like wading through mud.
Heh.

I'm plodding along on a Celeron 500 with 64Mb RAM right now.

And yes, I know I could upgrade the RAM on this and get a bit better performance. I just don't want to spend the money on something I'm going to replace soon anyway. That's if I could even find any that's compatible with this old thing.

[BlairH]

I love it when companies slap "gaming" on a label.

Nah that was me that slapped "gaming" on to it...I feel that it increases my "leetnes" amidst my "haxor" peers.

[Tadhg Adams]

Nah that was me that slapped "gaming" on to it...I feel that it increases my "leetnes" amidst my "haxor" peers.

I can't believe that Haxor is still in the lexicon.


I'm going to be building a new computer this summer. Maybe. I am building a new computer case and might update my Athlon 1700 system but I'm not sure if I can justify the expense. I almost never use it unless I'm copying shows off my Tivo.

[nervmeister]

Anyway, this is basically the system I plan to build. Any comments/suggestions?

GigaByte K8NF-9 Motherboard - I've researched this fairly extensively, and it seems to support the rest of the parts on my list, and can do everything I need it to do.

AMD Athlon 64 3000 CPU - Fast enough for what I need, and I'm told that AMD CPUs have the edge over Intel in desktop systems these days.

128Mb Radeon 9250 graphics card - I'm not a gamer, nor do I plan to become one. The most graphics intensive application I plan to run will be Photoshop, so I figure this card will be good enough.

200Gb SATA HD - any advice on brands to aim for/steer clear of?

1Gb Kingston DDR 400 RAM (2 x 512) - should be enough for what I want to do, and I'm told it's a good brand.

LG 16x dual layer DVD RW - I've read some good reviews of this model.

No sound card for now - I'm told on-board sound is pretty good these days, so I'll see how I go with that. I can always get one later.

Case - dunno. I'm sure I'll find something sexy-looking for a reasonable price.


This parts list is based on an ad a shop in town ran in the paper a week or so ago. The prices at this place are very good, and I will be taking somebody along with me who knows a lot more about this stuff than I do.Sounds kind of like the computer I'm planning on buying for my game.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E1B5VS/ref=sr_11_1/103-2127291-4588668?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[Leslie Lee III]

200Gb SATA HD - any advice on brands to aim

Get Seagate.

[BlairH]

Get Seagate.
or Western Digital

both manufacturers are teh awesome.

[Tadhg Adams]

Sounds kind of like the computer I'm planning on buying for my game.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E1B5VS/ref=sr_11_1/103-2127291-4588668?%5Fencoding=UTF8

The biggest problem with that Computer is the video. It has an integrated video chip that shares RAM with the system RAM. I'm not sure how intensive FEAR is, but a lot of games will have problems with that.

[nervmeister]

The biggest problem with that Computer is the video. It has an integrated video chip that shares RAM with the system RAM. I'm not sure how intensive FEAR is, but a lot of games will have problems with that.Thanks for the "heads up". So what do you suggest instead?

[BlairH]

The biggest problem with that Computer is the video. It has an integrated video chip that shares RAM with the system RAM. I'm not sure how intensive FEAR is, but a lot of games will have problems with that.

Correct

FEAR is VERY intensive and you'll need a much better card than that.

A lesson on graphics cards: On the back of the box for the game, it will say (64MB graphics card reccommended), this does NOT mean that any graphics card with 64MB or above will handle the game. There are many components on a graphics card (think of it as a mini computer, it has it's own RAM and it's own processor, the GPU. The GPU handles most of the complex pixel shader algorithms and stuff in modern computer games. Onboard graphics cards are absolute crap and will not support the latest pixel shader versions.

[BlairH]

Thanks for the "heads up". So what do you suggest instead?

I suggest building it yourself. Try www.newegg.com for your components, if you need any advice on particular components, just PM me.

[nervmeister]

So anything with an integrated video card isn't recommended.

[BlairH]

So anything with an integrated video card isn't recommended.
Absolutely not. All integrated video cards were actually forged in the fiery chasm of Mount Doom by the dark lord Sauron. They are to be avoided.

[nervmeister]

Absolutely not. All integrated video cards were actually forged in the fiery chasm of Mount Doom by the dark lord Sauron. They are to be avoided.How much money total would it cost for me to construct a computer capable of supporting FEAR?

[BlairH]

How much money total did it cost for you to construct your own computer.
Well, I'm in the UK so we get ripped off by prices quite often. You could build a decent one for $1000.

Now tell me: Do you have a monitor in the house already?

[nervmeister]

Well, I'm in the UK so we get ripped off by prices quite often. You could build a decent one for $1000.

Now tell me: Do you have a monitor in the house already?I only have a laptop.

[BlairH]

I only have a laptop.
Ah so you can't " salvage" anything. How much are you willing to spend?

[nervmeister]

Ah so you can't " salvage" anything. How much are you willing to spend?Whatever necessary to support FEAR........ and maybe Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.

[BlairH]

Whatever necessary to support FEAR........ and maybe Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.

For ES4 you'll need something good, something...expensive. Hold on, I'll ask you some questions and find components suited to your needs.

1) Is a flat panel monitor important to you? Would you prefer a big bulky CRT? (CRT=cheaper, FP=Slimmer)

[nervmeister]

For ES4 you'll need something good, something...expensive. Hold on, I'll ask you some questions and find components suited to your needs.

1) Is a flat panel monitor important to you? Would you prefer a big bulky CRT? (CRT=cheaper, FP=Slimmer)Better make it a CRT. I can always get a flat panel later.

[Leslie Lee III]

How much money total would it cost for me to construct a computer capable of supporting FEAR?

This is the system I recently built and it plays FEAR perfectly:

BIOSTAR N4SLI-A9 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - $79.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor - $152.00
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - $40.99
COOLER MASTER Ammo 533 RC-533-SWN1 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $74.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $99.50
Ultra 5.25" Bay Freezer w/ 2 60mm Fans Silver - $6.99
APC PF11VNT3 Performance SurgeArrest 11 - $34.99
Aerocool Silver UV Frame 120mm Case Fan w/ 4 LEDs - $17.99
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-430 ATX12V 430W Power Supply - $69.99
Powercolor Radeon X800GT 256MB PCIe w/Dual DVI - $165.99
PNY 1024MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory - $94.99

Another stick of ram, monitor and Extra HD's and DVD drives optional.

Logitech X-530 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker - $49.99
Acer AL1914 AB Black 19" 8ms LCD Monitor - $239.99

[BlairH]

Better make it a CRT. I can always get a flat panel later.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824006034

It's a cheap Sony CRT monitor. I used to have one a long time ago. decent cost/performance ratio, supports up to 1600X1200 resolutions.

2) How important is sound to you?

[BlairH]

This is the system I recently built and it plays FEAR perfectly:

BIOSTAR N4SLI-A9 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - $79.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor - $152.00
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - $40.99
COOLER MASTER Ammo 533 RC-533-SWN1 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $74.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $99.50
Ultra 5.25" Bay Freezer w/ 2 60mm Fans Silver - $6.99
APC PF11VNT3 Performance SurgeArrest 11 - $34.99
Aerocool Silver UV Frame 120mm Case Fan w/ 4 LEDs - $17.99
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-430 ATX12V 430W Power Supply - $69.99
Powercolor Radeon X800GT 256MB PCIe w/Dual DVI - $165.99
PNY 1024MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory - $94.99

Another stick of ram, monitor and Extra HD's and DVD drives optional.

Logitech X-530 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker - $49.99
Acer AL1914 AB Black 19" 8ms LCD Monitor - $239.99

A good spec. For the purposes of Elder Scrolls 4, he might want to go for a video card that supports pixel shader 3 (like a Geforce 6 or 7 card eg: 6600, 6800GT, 6800 Ultra, 7800GTX, etc)

[nervmeister]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824006034

It's a cheap Sony CRT monitor. I used to have one a long time ago. decent cost/performance ratio, supports up to 1600X1200 resolutions.

2) How important is sound to you?As long as I can see the blood and bullets flyin, it works for me.

[Tadhg Adams]

I'd still take a look at this (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=4d91w14&s=bsd)

[BlairH]

This is a nice, tasteful, minimalist case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154

It comes with case fans so you need not worry about that

[LtMarvel]

It's so easy, even I can do it! (and I can even boast about it on forums by posting pics)

Fear my dual-core, dual monitor setup!
Hmmm...I have a sheet set with that curtain's pattern...

[Tadhg Adams]

This is a nice, tasteful, minimalist case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154

It comes with case fans so you need not worry about that

I'm not really getting a "Spend 120.00 just on the case" vibe from Nerv.

[BlairH]

I'd still take a look at this (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=4d91w14&s=bsd)

PROS:
It will run FEAR
No fuss in setting it up
Dual core! Cheap price!
Dell tech support

CONS
As soon as you ramp it up to something quite capable the deceptively low price becomes....not so low.
FEAR and most other games can't take advantage of dual core just yet. By the time games are written for dual core, the relatively low clock speed (as in, by the time this happens) will make any benefits gained by dual core negligable.
Limited upgradability (dell PSUs and motherboards.)
Dell tech support

[BlairH]

I'm not really getting a "Spend 120.00 just on the case" vibe from Nerv.

That's only about 70 pounds!


That said, computer components in the UK are hideously expensive, maybe it just seems cheap.

[BlairH]

I'm not really getting a "Spend 120.00 just on the case" vibe from Nerv.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119075

This costs 80 pounds in the UK...In the US, it's extremely cheap!

Get this case instead Nerv

[LtMarvel]

How does this stack up?

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121927,pg,1,00.asp

Topics > Systems > Desktop PCs > Home PCs >

CyberPower Gamer Ultra 7500 SE
This economical PC combines jazzy design and a stellar LCD with midrange gaming performance.
PCW Rating: 85 Very Good
Manufacturer's Pricing
See Top Ranked Value Desktop PCs | See All Desktops
Wednesday, July 27, 2005
PRODUCT INFO CyberPower Gamer Ultra 7500 SE
Manufacturer's Pricing




CyberPower knows how to design gaming systems that look unabashedly cool, and the newest version of its Gamer Ultra 7500 SE is a classic example. Fortunately, this system has more going for it than just an arresting appearance: Based on its reasonable performance and price, it's also an excellent value for gamers on a budget.


Using a low-end CPU (a 2-GHz Athlon 64 3200+), 512 MB of DDR400 SDRAM, and an EVGA GeForce 6600 graphics card, the $1075 Gamer Ultra 7500 SE delivered 95 frames per second (near the middle of all tested systems) in Castle Wolfenstein and 146 fps (another midrange result) in Unreal Tournament 2003 graphics tests at 1280-by-1024 resolution. Though not as fast as some value systems that cost more, the Gamer Ultra 7500 SE's still-playable performance is a reasonable compromise for cost-conscious gamers. In our WorldBench 5 performance tests, the 7500 SE scored 90, typical for a system with this processor.

The midsize tower system we tested came in a silver-colored case (other colors are available) with a tricked-out, front-panel door that prominently features three display gauges--for monitoring temperature, volume, and fan speed--accented by colorful neon lights. The hinged door gives access to the power and reset buttons and to six drive bays. The system we reviewed came with a six-in-one media card reader and dual-layer DVD±RW, DVD-ROM, and floppy disk drives.

The left side of the case includes a clear panel that offers views of the neatly organized interior and its components, all bathed in blue neon. On the lower right side of the front panel are ports for USB, FireWire, and audio (microphone and headphone) connections. Also on the side of the front panel are volume and fan-speed adjusters. The back panel provides four USB 2.0 ports and six audio ports (the motherboard supports high-definition 7.1 audio), but no FireWire connector.

One feature this system has in abundance is fans: I found them built into the top of the case, behind the front-panel door, on the side, and in the back. CyberPower has even added a knob for adjusting the speed of the power supply fan in the rear, but it occupies a slot bracket that belongs to an open PCI slot inside the case.

Our review unit's interior was easy to access using thumbscrews. Expansion options include two open memory slots, three open PCI slots, and two open PCI Express slots. Two externally accessible and three internal drive bays are also open. Although tools are required for adding cards and drives, there's ample space in which to work.

The model came with ViewSonic's 17-inch VA712b LCD monitor, which scored high marks for displaying sharp, clear text (even at small sizes) and colorful graphics with good detail and realistic skin tones. The sound from the bundled Logitech X-530 5.1 speaker system was also pleasing; it produced solid tones with no distortion in our CD music and DVD movie tests.

CyberPower includes a Microsoft Multimedia keyboard and USB IntelliMouse Explorer that matches the color of the case; all are available in a variety of colors (including black, blue, green, red, and yellow). The company also provides useful documentation for the motherboard, graphics card, and monitor.

Upshot: Sporting a showy design, the CyberPower Gamer Ultra 7500 SE offers adequate performance at a very low price for budget-minded gamers.
-- Richard Jantz

[BlairH]

Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127222

[BlairH]

How does this stack up?

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121927,pg,1,00.asp

Not exactly awesome, another 512MB of ram wouldn't hurt (you can just as easy do that bit yourself though)

1GB is the benchmark for most every game nowdays, no excuse to have as little as 512MB in my opinion.

[BlairH]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535
The AMD64 3200
best price/performance ratio

[BlairH]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440
Cheap 1GB RAM

It may be cheap, but it's made by Corsair! Branded RAM tends to have higher performance timings and reduced latency than unbranded RAM.

[BlairH]

Graphics card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130256
OR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814142052

Both cards are very good. The latter one is a tad cheaper, the former is a tad more futureproofed as it supports Pixel shader model 3. The latter one should give you no problems though.

[Callie]

The Dell XPS looks pretty nice and will probably play F.E.A.R fabulously with an upgraded videocard (from the default spec) and 1 GB of RAM. My parent's Dell XPS can coast through World of Warcraft with the graphics maxed.

With F.E.A.R or any of-the-moment videogame, you're going to want at least a great-to-excellent videocard. That's always the bottleneck on a system with games. You can easily get away with skimping a bit on the CPU if you have a decent video card. I'd say that you want at least an nVidia GeForce 5900GT or a Radeon 9800XT. Prices are periodically going down, so you may want to apply a little extra cash here and go with an nVidia GeForce 6800. Or a Radeon x800. There is a newer Radeon x1800 out, but they're really expensive.

At least a gig of RAM.

Dual-core doesn't really matter too much at the moment. If you're building a computer just for gaming, then a single fast processor might be better. If you want a computer that can multi-task and stand up to whatever improvements appear over the next year or two (Vista...), dual-core is the way to go. Not a whole lot is taking advantage of dual-core yet, but I'm sure apps will start being updated to use it. Athlons are more expensive than Pentiums, but they run cooler, are more efficient, and typically win on benchmarks.

[BlairH]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153023
Power supply
Decent. 430 is decent enough.

[Tadhg Adams]

You do realize that you're already at 580.00 in parts Blair and still need Hard Drive, Optical Drive, Power Supply, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Windows.

[Callie]

Oh, and may I suggest perusing over ArsTechnica's articles? They have a lot of system building guides that take budget into consideration.

[BlairH]

Hard drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822135106

I've skimped a tad here, but you can always buy another one down the line

[BlairH]

You do realize that you're already at 580.00 in parts Blair and still need Hard Drive, Optical Drive, Power Supply, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Windows.

I put the monitor down ages ago. Kb&mouse=cheap windows=freeeeeerrrrrrummmm yeah, erm, Windows costs...money.

[BlairH]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058

Only optical drive you'll need...for now

[Leslie Lee III]

You do realize that you're already at 580.00 in parts Blair and still need Hard Drive, Optical Drive, Power Supply, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Windows.

And it'll still be cheaper and better than that Dell. Windows costs money?

[BlairH]

And it'll still be cheaper and better than that Dell.
Exactly, you woln't have to upgrade the crummy graphics card that comes with the dell, you'll be using all your own components, you'll know exactly what's in your computer, you woln't be hampered by the limitations of dell proprietory components, you woln't be limited in upgrading the components (due to Dell's "if you upgrade we will kill your warranty" policy) and so on...


...and so forth

[Tadhg Adams]

And it'll still be cheaper and better than that Dell.

Better, in some respects(Not the monitor.) but I don't see cheaper unless you pirate Windows.

[Tadhg Adams]

Exactly, you woln't have to upgrade the crummy graphics card that comes with the dell, you'll be using all your own components, you'll know exactly what's in your computer, you woln't be hampered by the limitations of dell proprietory components, you woln't be limited in upgrading the components (due to Dell's "if you upgrade we will kill your warranty" policy) and so on...


...and so forth

Dell doesn't kill your warranty for upgrading.

[BlairH]

Better, in some respects(Not the monitor.) but I don't see cheaper unless you pirate Windows.
The graphics card is far in advance of the one in the DELL. FEAR will actually run at a decent speed. The monitor isn't a priority for Nerve.

Get an OEM version of Windows for (checks)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832102311

(I love media center!)

[BlairH]

Dell doesn't kill your warranty for upgrading.
In the UK they certianly do. Unless you buy components from them and pay extra for labour costs to have them fit it. (I was once told by a Dell tech rep on the phone that if I opened the case and used compressed air to clean the case fans, they'd void the warranty)

Oh yeah! Speaking of case fans. Dell cases, they...get a little hot. Hot to the extent that high end, expensive graphics cards can't breathe.

[nervmeister]

I'd still take a look at this (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=4d91w14&s=bsd)Thanks...... It can play FEAR and Elder Scrolls IV, right? Sorry, for the constant line of questioning, but I have to be sure.

[BlairH]

Thanks...... It can play FEAR and Elder Scrolls IV, right? Sorry, for the constant line of questioning, but I have to be sure.

If you upgrade the graphics card on it to the 6800, and the RAM to 1GB it will play them both at a semi decent frame rate (things will play a bit sluggish if you put everything to full)

[nervmeister]

2) How important is sound to you?As long as it's clear and crisp.

[nervmeister]

Oh, and may I suggest perusing over ArsTechnica's articles? They have a lot of system building guides that take budget into consideration.I'll keep that handy. Thanks. I still have quite a bit of bookmarking left to do, though.

[nervmeister]

If you upgrade the graphics card on it to the 6800, and the RAM to 1GB it will play them both at a semi decent frame rate (things will play a bit sluggish if you put everything to full)Blair, could you please put all of what you mentioned for constructing my ES4/FEAR computer into a nice little grocery list for me? I'd greatly appreciate it. (It must be able to play FEAR and ES4 decently or better, though) I think I bookmarked all of the newegg product URLs you cited, but I just need to be sure I didn't miss anything.

[BlairH]

Blair, could you please put all of what you mentioned for constructing my ES4/FEAR computer into a nice little grocery list for me? I'd greatly appreciate it. (It must be able to play FEAR and ES4 decently or better, though) I think I bookmarked all of the newegg product URLs you cited, but I just need to be sure I didn't miss anything.


OPERATING SYSTEM (Windows XP Media Center Edition)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832102311
$139.95

CASE (Coolermaster value case)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119075
$59.99

MOTHERBOARD (ABIT KN8 ULTRA-with onboard sound)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127222
$91.99

PROCESSOR (AMD64 3200)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535
$164.00

RAM (Corsair Value RAM)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440
$81.00

GRAPHICS CARD (ATI X800)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814142052
$179.99

POWER SUPPLY
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153023
$39.99

MONITOR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824006034
$120.99

HARD DRIVE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822135106
$55.00

DVD RW drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152058
$39.75

That brings the total to 917.65
Get a keyboard mouse and a speaker system and your all set! If you can find Windows any "cheaper" that might help too!

In comparison with the Dell system: With the Dell you'd havce to put an additional 512MB of RAM and an upgraded graphics card for it to be viable with FEAR (and -God willing- that graphics card eating game known as Oblivion). The Dual core processor in the Dell is only clocked at 2.6Ghz, and the game itself is not optimised for dual core technology, and neither is any game currently released. (so it would be a single software thread running on one 2.6Ghz core) So you're basically better building it yourself.

You get a manufacturers warranty with all the components (some companies are so confident, they have a lifetime warranty, unlike Dell)

[nervmeister]

You're the greatest Blair! Thankyou so much.

[BlairH]

Thankyou so much.
You are welcome :)

[Leslie Lee III]

May I suggest you look into this case as well. It has the same features but for $15 more dollars you have the MANLIEST MOST BAD ASS COMPUTER CASE TO EVER EXIST. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119098

You'll have to get a fan for the back, but fans are inexpensive.

[nervmeister]

May I suggest you look into this case as well. It has the same features but for $15 more dollars you have the MANLIEST MOST BAD ASS COMPUTER CASE TO EVER EXIST. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119098

You'll have to get a fan for the back, but fans are inexpensive.Hmm. Not bad. Just keep in mind that I've never built a computer before. I cant beleive I'm taking this risk. :D

[Leslie Lee III]

Hmm. Not bad. Just keep in mind that I've never built a computer before. I cant beleive I'm taking this risk. :D

Make sure to get a computer tool set and an anti-static wrist band. There's only a slight chance you'll destroy anything really, and there are guides all over the internet to show you what to do.

[nervmeister]

Make sure to get a computer tool set and an anti-static wrist band. There's only a slight chance you'll destroy anything really, and there are guides all over the internet to show you what to do.How long does it usually take to build?

[Leslie Lee III]

How long does it usually take to build?

Only a couple hours really, if that.

[Spike-X]

Hmm. Not bad. Just keep in mind that I've never built a computer before. I cant beleive I'm taking this risk. :D
C'mon, what's the worst that could happen?

[BlairH]

May I suggest you look into this case as well. It has the same features but for $15 more dollars you have the MANLIEST MOST BAD ASS COMPUTER CASE TO EVER EXIST. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119098

You'll have to get a fan for the back, but fans are inexpensive.

I personally don't like the look of the case, it looks too cluttered but horses for courses I suppose. My ideal case is the Silverstone Temjin

http://www.computery.ru/upgrade/numbers/2005/209/images/KORPUS_DSC_9835.jpg

It looks like a large aluminum 2001 esque monolith!

[Callie]

Just a few hours to build a computer unless you have issues of any sort. Wear an antistatic wrist strap, work on a cement/tile/wood/linoleum surface (anything but carpet if you can help it), and touch a metal part of the case every so often.

The scariest part for me when building PCs is putting the heatsink/fan on the CPU. It's not that it's overly dangerous to the components, but most heatsink/fan combos are a pain to put on. They don't make the clips overly user-friendly on most. The stock AMD heatsink/fan wasn't too bad though IIRC. I later switched that out for a Thermaltake one to cool the CPU down a little more. Just be sure to read all the docs and determine if you want to use Arctic Silver thermal grease or just the thermal pad that comes on the heatsink.

As for cases, I'm a big fan of Antecs because they're cheap, sturdy, and have some thoughtful touches like rubber grommets, rolled edges, removable HDD trays, etc... And their PSUs are good, too.

I'm not into anything fancy though. My first case was a monstrous beige midtower that easily earned its name "Lurch". Lurch is now a smaller, black midtower case.

[nervmeister]

Alright, just in case I cant build one quite yet, what canon PC do you reccomend I buy in order to play Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and FEAR?

[ocelotrevs]

(steps in on nerv's turf)

How do I find out how much memory (RAM) I can install on my computer.
Would it be in the system info, or do I have to do a web search?

[Gilda Dent]

I love computer building threads like this.

Which is to say, I love them in the same way I love those home improvement shows. It's fun to see others capable of doing this stuff talk about it (I'm such a nerd), but there's little to no chance I'd ever be able to do something like that myself.

We just ordered my once-every-two-years new system from Alienware and it should be here next week. The one I'm using right now gets to be relocated to my classroom.

Gilda

[nervmeister]

(steps in on nerv's turf)

How do I find out how much memory (RAM) I can install on my computer.
Would it be in the system info, or do I have to do a web search?All you have to do is look at the computer specs online. Amazon.com for instance tells you all you need to know. Oh, and Blair H, about the list you mentioned earlier. Will the sound be good? It will also play FEAR and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion right? (This is the final check. Forgive my anal retention.)

[Callie]

You'll need to check the specs on your motherboard. If it's a mobo that you bought, it should be in the literature that came with it. If it's part of a system you bought from a dealer like Dell, I suggest going to their website and looking up the manuals and specs for your model.

[ocelotrevs]

rabidfangirl clears it up
You'll need to check the specs on your motherboard. If it's a mobo that you bought, it should be in the literature that came with it. If it's part of a system you bought from a dealer like Dell, I suggest going to their website and looking up the manuals and specs for your model.

Yeah it's a Dell and that, my sister was asking about it and that. So I'll go there (again).
Thanks as well nervmeister.

[nervmeister]

Thanks as well nervmeister.Think nothing of it.

[ocelotrevs]

I just found out that it's a 4 gig max in my system. Which is pretty decent I guess.

[BlairH]

Oh, and Blair H, about the list you mentioned earlier. Will the sound be good? It will also play FEAR and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion right? (This is the final check. Forgive my anal retention.)
Sound will be ok, pretty much dependant on what speaker system you get. The motherboard has built in 6 chanel audio (5.1). If you want to have even better sound later on you can add a Creative Labs Audigy 4.

It will play FEAR. The Dell that Tadgh reccommended would also play FEAR (but would play it REALLY slowly). As for Elder Scrolls, the Dell would have no hope in hell of playing it, but the system I specced for you would be relatively decent.

[BlairH]

Alright, just in case I cant build one quite yet, what canon PC do you reccomend I buy in order to play Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and FEAR?

I'd be tempted to say a cheap-ish Alienware (if there is such a thing). You can configure one at www.alienware.com (I just priced one for you. Area51 AMD64 4000, Geforce 7800GTX 2GB RAM, sans monitor came in at just a tad over a grand) It's a more powerful system than the DIY one I specced for you, but it's more expensive.

You can have a look at the site, decide whether or not you like look/design of the systems and fiddle around with the different configurations. If you have any queries about any of the options, just ask.

One thing I would say about Alienware is that their tech support is awesome. They are all obviously gamers and computer users so they're very handy if anything goes wrong (or if you just have any queries about how best to set up the system)

[nervmeister]

If you were here in person Blair, I'd kiss you. You are a godsend.

[BlairH]

Here's an article on the graphics engine that will be used in ESIV: Oblivion. It's a bit technical, but it gives some idea as to the awesome system requirements of that particular game.

http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/oblivion/

[nervmeister]

I'd be tempted to say a cheap-ish Alienware (if there is such a thing). You can configure one at www.alienware.com (I just priced one for you. Area51 AMD64 4000, Geforce 7800GTX 2GB RAM, sans monitor came in at just a tad over a grand) It's a more powerful system than the DIY one I specced for you, but it's more expensive.

You can have a look at the site, decide whether or not you like look/design of the systems and fiddle around with the different configurations. If you have any queries about any of the options, just ask.

One thing I would say about Alienware is that their tech support is awesome. They are all obviously gamers and computer users so they're very handy if anything goes wrong (or if you just have any queries about how best to set up the system)Funny. I cant find a 4000 among the site's list of Area 51s.

[Vesper]

Is it wrong that the gamer chick in me has a major crush on Blair's computer set-up?

So pretty!

[Slappy san]

I'd recommend building one yourself as well if you think you can do it. Get your parts from http://www.newegg.com

I'd recommend hitting pricegrabber.com, zipzoomfly.com, and on and on. You have to shop around.

[Slappy san]

Anyway, this is basically the system I plan to build. Any comments/suggestions?

GigaByte K8NF-9 Motherboard - I've researched this fairly extensively, and it seems to support the rest of the parts on my list, and can do everything I need it to do.

AMD Athlon 64 3000 CPU - Fast enough for what I need, and I'm told that AMD CPUs have the edge over Intel in desktop systems these days.

128Mb Radeon 9250 graphics card - I'm not a gamer, nor do I plan to become one. The most graphics intensive application I plan to run will be Photoshop, so I figure this card will be good enough.

200Gb SATA HD - any advice on brands to aim for/steer clear of?

1Gb Kingston DDR 400 RAM (2 x 512) - should be enough for what I want to do, and I'm told it's a good brand.

LG 16x dual layer DVD RW - I've read some good reviews of this model.

No sound card for now - I'm told on-board sound is pretty good these days, so I'll see how I go with that. I can always get one later.

Case - dunno. I'm sure I'll find something sexy-looking for a reasonable price.


This parts list is based on an ad a shop in town ran in the paper a week or so ago. The prices at this place are very good, and I will be taking somebody along with me who knows a lot more about this stuff than I do.


You might as well get a AMD Athlon 64 X2. I have been watching a 3800. It dropped all the way down to $295.

[Slappy san]

Thanks...... It can play FEAR and Elder Scrolls IV, right? Sorry, for the constant line of questioning, but I have to be sure.

You might consider going to a more pc-related message board for better and wide ranging info.

[Slappy san]

Hmm. Not bad. Just keep in mind that I've never built a computer before. I cant beleive I'm taking this risk. :D

Hoo boy. Fly Blair out to help....or atleast have him IM on your old pc.

[Night]

If you want to go pre-built

Essence X5 Gaming PC

# Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Socket 939 CPU ADA3200BPBOX.
# Motherboard & Memory: Abit KN8 Ultra Motherboard & Mushkin 1GB DDR400 Bundle.
# Video: Chaintech SE6600 GeForce 6600 256MB PCI-E Video Card.
# Storage: Hitachi 0A30356 80GB SATA-II / SATA 3G Hard Drive.
# Network: NVIDIA Gigabit Ethernet and NV Firewall Onboard.
# Sound: 7.1-channel Audio Onboard.
# Optical Drive: Black Lite-on SOHW-160P6S 16x Double Layer DVD-RW Drive.

add Win XP Media Center and the HD to a WD800JD SATA 80GB HDD" and the price comes up as $726

edit: http://www.directron.com/essencex5.html

[nervmeister]

If you want to go pre-built

Essence X5 Gaming PC

# Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Socket 939 CPU ADA3200BPBOX.
# Motherboard & Memory: Abit KN8 Ultra Motherboard & Mushkin 1GB DDR400 Bundle.
# Video: Chaintech SE6600 GeForce 6600 256MB PCI-E Video Card.
# Storage: Hitachi 0A30356 80GB SATA-II / SATA 3G Hard Drive.
# Network: NVIDIA Gigabit Ethernet and NV Firewall Onboard.
# Sound: 7.1-channel Audio Onboard.
# Optical Drive: Black Lite-on SOHW-160P6S 16x Double Layer DVD-RW Drive.

add Win XP Media Center and the HD to a WD800JD SATA 80GB HDD" and the price comes up as $726

edit: http://www.directron.com/essencex5.html Only an 80 Gig Hard Drive? Hmmm. That's quite a sacrifice.

[Night]

Only an 80 Gig Hard Drive? Hmmm. That's quite a sacrifice.
*Change/Upgrade SATA Hard Drive: One WD WD2500JS SATA 250GB HDD 300 MB/s(+47.00)

$773.00 (prices b4 shipping) I don't know where you are.
I used to live in Houston and I could go to that store and pick things up. There's a bit of a comfort factor in buying in you home town, you can buy sight seen and you can hand return/exchange when it's not what you wanted

[nervmeister]

*Change/Upgrade SATA Hard Drive: One WD WD2500JS SATA 250GB HDD 300 MB/s(+47.00)

$773.00 (prices b4 shipping) I don't know where you are.
I used to live in Houston and I could go to that store and pick things up. There's a bit of a comfort factor in buying in you home town, you can buy sight seen and you can hand return/exchange when it's not what you wantedI'm now suspicious. Why is this such an excellent deal? There has to be a catch.

[Night]

I'm now suspicious. Why is this such an excellent deal? There has to be a catch.
yeah you might wait 4 Blair to wake up to get his opinion on it. I just went from specs on the FEAR site on their min and suggested requirements and crossed with my favorite parts place on their systems.

The video card on Blair's part list looks like it might be better, but the one I found is on the list of accepted ones for FEAR.

[Spike-X]

You might as well get a AMD Athlon 64 X2. I have been watching a 3800. It dropped all the way down to $295.
Thanks for the advice, but that's waaaaaaaay out of my price range right now.

[BlairH]

Funny. I cant find a 4000 among the site's list of Area 51s.
Dang! I meant Aurora

(damned conspiracy themed naming conventions!)
Aurora are the AMD Alienware systems, Area 51s are the P4s

[BlairH]

I'm now suspicious. Why is this such an excellent deal? There has to be a catch.
Geforce 6600!
It's a 6th generation Nvidia graphics card, but it's had about 50% of the "oomph" removed. It will play FEAR ok, but might struggle with ESIV. To be avoided methinks! It's also quite a troublesome card in that there are some games out there that it should be powerful enough to run but it doesn't work with them for some reason.

[Guapo Méndez]

I understood bits and pieces about the thread. My brother is the family computer master and whenever my computer does something I don't understand, I call him.

But those rigs sound positively awesome.
Right now I got a pentium IV HP. I think it has a radeon 9800 and sound card is an audigy 2, 5.1 home theater type speakers (...man, talk about being involved in the game!) About 800 megs of ram. 40gb hard drive.

I mostly use it to play World of Warcraft (And City of Heroes, when I was subscribed), and they play fine.

Good ideas for the time I need to upgrade.

[nervmeister]

Geforce 6600!
It's a 6th generation Nvidia graphics card, but it's had about 50% of the "oomph" removed. It will play FEAR ok, but might struggle with ESIV. To be avoided methinks! It's also quite a troublesome card in that there are some games out there that it should be powerful enough to run but it doesn't work with them for some reason.Well what graphics card do you recommend? The computer is customizable on that site you know. And besides, that card is 256 MB which is well beyond what's necessary to play FEAR (which requires only 64 MB). Will ESIV truly require more power than that?

[BlairH]

Well what graphics card do you recommend? The computer is customizable on that site you know.

For FEAR? I've seen a 6800 Ultra struggle with everything turned up to max (but that's mainly due to the limitations of the game engine itself, rather than the system). As for ESIV? I reckon a 6800 Ultra would manage it on medium/high from what I've read about the ESIV graphics engine.

I would be cautious around some of these relatively unknown system builder sites. Many use B-Grade stock and underclocked or "nerfed" graphics cards to reduce the cost.

[BlairH]

FEAR (which requires only 64 MB). Will ESIV truly require more power than that?
Do not get caught out by this. The amount of RAM on a graphics card is no indication of it's power. It's best to think of graphics cards as mini computers. They have their own RAM (Usually GDDR3) and their own processor. It is the processor on the graphics card (known as the GPU Graphics processing unit) that determines the power of the card.

[nervmeister]

I would be cautious around some of these relatively unknown system builder sites. Many use B-Grade stock and underclocked or "nerfed" graphics cards to reduce the cost.I knew there was a catch! Looks like it's Alienware for me. I'm deleting directron.com/thinkbox.com from my favorites as of now. Once again, you've saved my ass, Blair. I can't thank you enough.

[BlairH]

I knew there was a catch! Looks like it's Alienware for me. I'm deleting directron.com/thinkbox.com from my favorites as of now. Once again, you've saved my ass, Blair. I can't thank you enough.

Alienware are good PCs no doubt about that. Just remember to exercise restraint on their system build page, it's tempting to max everything out, but just remember to keep things simple. Stick to the Aurora (AMD) based systems, 1GB RAM, 6800 Ultra and all will be well.

As usual if you need help with any of their more exotic options (Alienice etc) just ask.

[nervmeister]

Alienware are good PCs no doubt about that. Just remember to exercise restraint on their system build page, it's tempting to max everything out, but just remember to keep things simple. Stick to the Aurora (AMD) based systems, 1GB RAM, 6800 Ultra and all will be well.

As usual if you need help with any of their more exotic options (Alienice etc) just ask.Alright, I configured an Aurora 3500 like you said (slapped on a 1 GB RAM and a GeForce 6800 Ultra). And the total comes to ............................(goes into cardiac arrest).

[Night]

Alright, I configured an Aurora 3500 like you said (slapped on a 1 GB RAM and a GeForce 6800 Ultra). And the total comes to ............................(goes into cardiac arrest).
The system I priced out earlier with a card simmilar to blair's descruiption earlier in the thread
*Change/Upgrade PCI Express Video Card: Sapphire 256MB Radeon X800GTO FireBlade PCI-E(+54.00)
$827.00

or with the GeForce 7800 (Directron did not have an 6800ultra)
*Change/Upgrade PCI Express Video Card: XFX Geforce 7800 GT 256MB PV-T70G-UDF VD(+203.00)
$976.00

I was mainly trying to get you in the door without going nuts. You can spend a lot when the drool hits the keyboard and starts typing for you. I'll admit I don't know many of the newer cards, especially the GeForce ones.

If Alienware gives you better warm fuzzies then go with it. After all you're the one who will have to live with it.

[nervmeister]

Alienware are good PCs no doubt about that. Just remember to exercise restraint on their system build page, it's tempting to max everything out, but just remember to keep things simple. Stick to the Aurora (AMD) based systems, 1GB RAM, 6800 Ultra and all will be well.

As usual if you need help with any of their more exotic options (Alienice etc) just ask.Well, I'm now divided on whether I should take the AMD tech of the Auroras or the Pentium Dual-Core tech of the Area-51s.

[Rachel Grey]

Hey, on a similar but different game note, I'm gonna put my comp's stats up. Dose anyone know how well they'll do with TES4:Oblivion?


Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz CPU
768MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR
ASUS motherboard Serial ATA 150MB/s transfer


I'm sure that it'll beat the minimum specs, but I dont know how fast/smoothly it'll run.

[BlairH]

Well, I'm now divided on whether I should take the AMD tech of the Auroras or the Pentium Dual-Core tech of the Area-51s.

If you are on a budget, stay away from the high-end (or the low end for that matter!) dual core processors they aren't worth it at the moment. Best bang for the buck would be a vanilla AMD64.

[BlairH]

Hey, on a similar but different game note, I'm gonna put my comp's stats up. Dose anyone know how well they'll do with TES4:Oblivion?


Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz CPU
768MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR
ASUS motherboard Serial ATA 150MB/s transfer


I'm sure that it'll beat the minimum specs, but I dont know how fast/smoothly it'll run.
Not very smoothly at all from what I've seen of the engine. Your processor is ok, and should be able to cope (Oblivion isn't very CPU dependant) but you'll ideally be wanting at LEAST a Radeon9800XT (preferrably at least an X800) and some more RAM.

Certianly, you woln't be able to run it at all with every option turned on, as the game supports model 3 Pixel shaders, and the 9600 only supports shader model 2.

[nervmeister]

Rachel, The Xbox 360 has a 3.2 Ghz processor, so that gives you a clue of how powerful your Pc's processor needs to be in order to play ES4.

[BlairH]

Rachel, The Xbox 360 has a 3.2 Ghz processor, so that gives you a clue of how powerful your Pc's processor needs to be in order to play ES4

Not just any 3.2Ghz processor, a triple core (!!! Three!) 3.2Ghz processor!

[nervmeister]

Not just any 3.2Ghz processor, a triple core (!!! Three!) 3.2Ghz processor!And Blair, not even the most powerful AMD Athlon on an Aurora matches Area-51's Pentium 3.0 Ghz and above processors (I'm gonna need at least 3.0 ghz just for smooth gameplay of FEAR).

[BlairH]

And Blair, not even the most powerful AMD Athlon on an Aurora matches Area-51's Pentium 3.0 Ghz and above processors (I'm gonna need at least 3.0 ghz just for smooth gameplay of FEAR).

No. Clock speed is not really a good indication of processor "speed" any more.

Think of it this way. A Boing 747 can transport more passangers in less time than an Airbus A320. Is the Boing faster than the Airbus? No. It just carries more passangers.

The AMD Athlons are Boing 747s. The AMD64 3200 may just be a 2.4GHz+ processor, but it will perform better than a 3.5 GHz Pentium. AMD processors are trumping Pentiums in all gaming benchmarks right now.

[nervmeister]

No. Clock speed is not really a good indication of processor "speed" any more.

Think of it this way. A Boing 747 can transport more passangers in less time than an Airbus A320. Is the Boing faster than the Airbus? No. It just carries more passangers.

The AMD Athlons are Boing 747s. The AMD64 3200 may just be a 2.4GHz+ processor, but it will perform better than a 3.5 GHz Pentium.Then why does my goddam FEAR manual reccomend a Pentium 3.0 Ghz processor? And how should I rate graphics cards in the future?

[BlairH]

Then why does my goddam FEAR manual reccomend a Pentium 3.0 Ghz processor.
Because most people have Pentium processors, and that's how one measures the relative speed of an Intel Processor. The manual is just being a wee bit simplistic. AMD processors (now this isn't a hard and fast rule) use a speed rating system for comparing it to an equivelant P4: The AMD64 3200 roughly equals a P4 3.2Ghz, AMD64 3500 roughly equals a P4 3.5Ghz.

[nervmeister]

Because most people have Pentium processors, and that's how one measures the relative speed of an Intel Processor. The manual is just being a wee bit simplistic. AMD processors (now this isn't a hard and fast rule) use a speed rating system for comparing it to an equivelant P4: The AMD64 3200 roughly equals a P4 3.2Ghz, AMD64 3500 roughly equals a P4 3.5Ghz.Is there no end to your knowledge? Thanks, bro.

[BlairH]

And how should I rate graphics cards in the future?
The feature list of the chipset (pixel shader 3)
The speed of the GPU core (the processor on the card)
The speed of the GDDR3 (the RAM used by the card)

In general, you can't go wrong with a new ATI or NVidia card. The higher numbers are better :evilsmile

X800XT-PE = bare minimum ATI
Geforce 6800 GT = bare minimum NVidia

(I say "bare minimum" but both cards are really awesome!)

[nervmeister]

The feature list of the chipset (pixel shader 3)
The speed of the GPU core (the processor on the card)
The speed of the GDDR3 (the RAM used by the card)

In general, you can't go wrong with a new ATI or NVidia card. The higher numbers are better :evilsmile

X800XT-PE = bare minimum ATI
Geforce 6800 GT = bare minimum NVidia

(I say "bare minimum" but both cards are really awesome!)Sorry! I asked the wrong question. How should I rate processors in the future (Pentiums, Athlons, etc.)

[BlairH]

Sorry! I asked the wrong question. How should I rate processors in the future (Pentiums, Athlons, etc.)

In the future anything can change really. It used to be that the architecture of AMD processors was more or less exactly the same as Intel processors, so you could measure the speed in terms of differences in clock speed. However, recently things have changed quite considerably with the way the two processors address memory and other things like that. AMD processors use a much more eficcient system for this kind of thing (the memory controller is on the processor itself whereas the P4 has to communicate with the other components via a bridge on the motherboard.)

The best way to compare 2 processors as far as gaming goes is to look up benchmark info for the processors. A benchmark is where testers run games and other applications on many different platforms and compare the performance.

Usually, testers will use Doom3 or FEAR or whatever to benchmark processors in order to see how they stack up against each other.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

In this site, you can see a fairly typical benchmark result (AMD processors giving Intel ones a bit of a whipping. Even the 2.4Ghz AMD processors beat the mighty Intel EE "Extreme Edition" processors)

Benchmarking is the only way to determine processor performance, as the raw numbers just don't cut it anymore! :)

EDIT: Argh! The typos in my post!

[nervmeister]

In the future anything can change really. It used to be that the architecture of AMD processors was more or less exactly the same as Intel processors, so you could measure the speed in terms of differences in clock speed. However, recently things have changed quite considerably with the way the two processors address memory and other things like that. AMD processors use a much more eficcient system for this kind of thing (the memory controller is on the processor itself whereas the P4 has to communicate with the other components via a bridge on the motherboard.)

The best way to compare 2 processors as far as gaming goes is to look up benchmark info for the processors. A benchmark is where testers run games and other applications on many different platforms and compare the performance.

Usually, testers will use Doom3 or FEAR or whatever to benchmark processors in order to see how they stack up against each other.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

In this site, you can see a fairly typical benchmark result (AMD processors giving Intel ones a bit of a whipping)

Benchmarking is the only way to determine processor performance, as the raw numbers just don't cut it anymore! :)Blair, words cannot express how grateful I am to you.

[nervmeister]

Um, sorry Blair but I have another question. Which is better? a single-channel DDR of 1GB. or a dual-channel DDR of 1 GB total (2 x 512MB)?

[BlairH]

Um, sorry Blair but I have another question. Which is better? a single-channel DDR of 1GB. or a dual-channel DDR of 1 GB total (2 x 512MB)?

There are pros and cons to either one:

Going for two 512MB sticks means that you will be able to run the RAM in "Dual channel mode". This leads to a very slight increase in system performance. It's very slight. Negligible. Barely noticable. It also uses up 2 memory slots (1 for each 512 stick)

Going for one 1GB stick means that you can't run it in dual channel, which doesn't even matter to be honest, but it only uses one memory slot, meaning that you have more upgrading possibilities. (you could add another 1GB stick in later if you so desire)

[nervmeister]

There are pros and cons to either one:

Going for two 512MB sticks means that you will be able to run the RAM in "Dual channel mode". This leads to a very slight increase in system performance. It's very slight. Negligible. Barely noticable. It also uses up 2 memory slots (1 for each 512 stick)

Going for one 1GB stick means that you can't run it in dual channel, which doesn't even matter to be honest, but it only uses one memory slot, meaning that you have more upgrading possibilities. (you could add another 1GB stick in later if you so desire)How does either effect gaming? Because FEAR requires a minimum of 512 MB RAM. Now, I'm assuming it's in terms of 1 channel. So, for smoother gameplay, should I at least have I GB per channel?

[BlairH]

How does either effect gaming? Because FEAR requires a minimum of 512 MB RAM. For smoother gameplay, should I at least have I GB per channel?

If it comes down to having either more RAM or dual channel, I'd pick more RAM in a heartbeat. FEAR really likes having 1GB of RAM.

If I were you, I'd pick one GB stick, then in a year or so buy another 1GB stick, put it in then you'll have a 2GB dual channel set up!

If you go for the 2X512MB, you may be limited in your upgrades with regards to how many RAM sockets there are on your motherboard. If you wanted to upgrade this set up in the future, ideally you'd need 2 more 512 sticks to bring the total to 2GB. You'd probably loose dual channel and you'd have no more room for upgrades.

One 1GB stick is easier to keep cool and easier on power requirements than 2 512 sticks as well.

[nervmeister]

If it comes down to having either more RAM or dual channel, I'd pick more RAM in a heartbeat. FEAR really likes having 1GB of RAM.

If I were you, I'd pick one GB stick, then in a year or so buy another 1GB stick, put it in then you'll have a 2GB dual channel set up!

If you go for the 2X512MB, you may be limited in your upgrades with regards to how many RAM sockets there are on your motherboard. If you wanted to upgrade this set up in the future, ideally you'd need 2 more 512 sticks to bring the total to 2GB. You'd probably loose dual channel and you'd have no more room for upgrades.

One 1GB stick is easier to keep cool and easier on power requirements than 2 512 sticks as well.Well unfortunately, the Auroras I'm looking at only have 2x512MB (1 GB total) dual memory. To upgrade to 1 GB per channel upon initial purchase means having to max out all 4 channels with 1 GB RAM each (that of course being expensive).

[Woodwose]

BlairH, I tried to PM you, but your message box was full.

I'm in a similar situation as Nervmeister; I'm on a limited budget, I want to play ESIV and want to build a new system to do so. I'm in Canada and will be getting my components at Canada Computers (http://www.canadacomputers.com). I've basically based my system on what you had suggested in the Nervmeister thread. Here it is:

Case:
Antec Sonata II Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower ATX Black 450 Watt Power Supply – $124.99

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz Socket 939 – 184.99

RAM:
Corsair Value Select PC3200 DDR400 Kit 2x512MB 184-pin DIMM – $108.00

Hard Drive:
Western Digital Caviar EIDE 80GB ATA-100 7200RPM 8MB Buffer (OEM) – $60.00

DVD-RW:
NEC ND-3550 (Black) 16x DVD+/-R 8x DVD+RW 6x DVD-RW Writer 4x DVD-R/8x DVD+R Double Layer (OEM) – $48.99

I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for a motherboard and a graphics card (please source them from Canada Computers). I would really appreciate the help. This is the first time I've built a system from the ground up and I'm a little nervous about it. I'm going to enlist the help of a friend who does this on a fairly regular basis in case I hit any bumps.

Here's a list of mobo's that are compatible with the processor I've selected, which would be the best one?

Asus A8N-E Socket 939 nVidia nF4 Ultra Chipset Dual-Ch DDR400 8-Ch Audio,4 X SATA GB Lan - $113.99

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI w/ Dual-Ch DDR400, Dual Gb LAN, SATA 3Gb/s, Dual RAID, 8-Ch Audio, Dual PCI-E - $181.99

Asus A8N-VM CSM Socket 939 nVidia GeForce 6150 + nForce 430 Chipset Dual-Ch DDR 400 Integrated GeForce6 GPU Dual VGA Ouput:DVI-D & RGB Serial ATAII High Definition Audio GB Lan 1394 - $97.99

Asus A8N-VM Socket 939 nVidia GeForce 6100 + nForce 410 Dual-Ch DDR400 PCI Express Architecture Serial ATAII High Definition Audio - $81.99

Asus A8V-E SE Socket 939 VIA K8T890 Dual-Ch DDR, PCI Express x16, SATA Raid 0/1/JBOD, 8-Ch Audio, GB Lan - $85.99

Asus A8V-MX Socket 939 VIA K8M800 Chipset Dual-Ch DDR 400 Integrated Video Serial ATA Raid 0/1/0+1/JBOD 6-Ch Audio 10/100 Lan Micro ATX - $69.99

Asus A8V Socket 939 VIA K8T800 Pro Dual-Ch DDR400, AI Gb LAN, SATA RAID, AI 8-Ch Audio, SPDIF - $84.99

[BlairH]

Get either

Asus A8N-E Socket 939 nVidia nF4 Ultra Chipset Dual-Ch DDR400 8-Ch Audio,4 X SATA GB Lan

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI w/ Dual-Ch DDR400, Dual Gb LAN, SATA 3Gb/s, Dual RAID, 8-Ch Audio, Dual PCI Express

The latter offers more scope for upgrades if you want to SLI 2 PCI Express graphics cards. The other mobos on the list aren't up to much to be honest.

[BlairH]

The Canada computers website isn't working for me, but I personally would go for either one or two Nvidia 7800 GT cards. If you buy 2 and pick an SLI motherboard (like the one in the above post) you can put them both in and get a massive performance increase.