DC's Hell

[bosshog7169]

I was just wondering if anybody knew what the deal is with DC's version of hell. I know that Marvel has several different versions of devils and even multiple underworld type places, but I don't know much about how DC handles its devils.

I ask because I was reading some old issues of the Demon by Ennis where the Demon takes over for Lucifer in hell. I also recently read a Wonder Woman where she went into a different hell to battle Hades, and then Ares took over for him I think. (Possible Spoiler in next sentence) What happens now that all of Wonder Woman's gods have left our reality? I'm confused.

How many different versions of hell and the devil are there in DC?

[shaxper]

Hades is not exactly hell. It's the Mythological underworld of the greek Gods and home to the god of the same name. According to strict mythology, everyone (good and bad) goes there to die, but I doubt it's used in that respect in Wonder Woman.

To the best of my knowledge, the only hell DC has is the one that frequently appears in the Demon. Though, back in the early 1990s, Superman had a three part story called Soul Search where he went to a hell that contained neither Etrigon nor Lucifer.

[Shellhead]

Hades is not exactly hell. It's the Mythological underworld of the greek Gods and home to the god of the same name. According to strict mythology, everyone (good and bad) goes there to die, but I doubt it's used in that respect in Wonder Woman.

To the best of my knowledge, the only hell DC has is the one that frequently appears in the Demon. Though, back in the early 1990s, Superman had a three part story called Soul Search where he went to a hell that contained neither Etrigon nor Lucifer.

Everybody has read or heard about Alan Moore's great run on Swamp Thing. And some will even acknowledge that Rick Veitch did a good job following that tough act, at least until the Jesus Incident caused him to bail. But the writer after Veitch (can't remember the name right now) had one really cool arc set in Hell.

Since this was just shortly after the Invasion crossover, he populated the afterlife with a bunch of aliens who died during Invasion. One group of atheist aliens (the Psions?) weren't there because they didn't believe in an afterlife, so they didn't get one. The good Durlan shapeshifters were merged in one happy amorphous pool, while the evil Durlans were stuck in static forms as inanimate objects, creating a city from their structures. The evil Thanagarians in Hell proved disturbing to the other demons, with their wings suggestive of angels.

[bosshog7169]

insightful... but is Swamp Thing part of the main DC universe still? It looks like a cool book but I only read a little bit of the new series. Does he exist in the world of DC's superheroes with the Supermen and the crises and whatnot.

Also what's the deal with Hades now that that stuff is goin on with Wonder Woman's gods. Does that leave Lucifer's hell as the only one in the proper DC universe? I don't get it.

[shaxper]

I don't think the Vertigo titles occur in the regular DC universe, though I could be wrong. I remember that Swamp Thing (2nd series) #50 featured the Spectre and Doctor Strange, so maybe there's some intersection between the two.

[Forsaken_One]

As far as I'm aware Swamp Thing is still considered DCU (he was at the Coast City memorial thing after all). Also Sandman is considered within the DCU (used in both JLA and JSA at one point, plus the occasional others) and that had another version of hell. Plus there's the Demon's version of hell out there. There's Constantine's version of hell and he's evidently considered somewhat in the DCU, though not really. Still, he deals with Zatanna and other magic characters/creatures, so there ya go. Books of Magic had a version of hell as I remember too, and that was within the DCU (at least as much as Hellblazer is, he did involve several DCU mystical elements). JLA had a version of hell during that whole Angel arc thing, didn't it? Anyway, PAD's Supergirl also had a version of hell in it.

So yeah, a lot of versions of hell out there. And Vertigo titles are sometimes in line with the DCU, sometimes not. It really depends on what the author wants and (I think) when the book was published. Swamp Thing and Sandman both borrowed characters from the DCU and the DCU, in turn, borrowed from them. So they (and offshoots such as Lucifer) are still within the DCU in some ways. And yet others, like Fables or Y - The Last Man aren't in the DCU at all. Then again most Wildstorm titles are within the Wildstorm universe, but Ex Machina is in it's own universe that has nothing to do with the Wildstorm Universe. And the DC Direct stories such as Hard Time were published by DC, but they aren't part of the DCU. So I don't think any DC-owned publication can be considered in or out of continuity based upon who published it. Rather, I'd say, you have to look at each on their own to see if there's any crossover. Though I'll admit the more recent Vertigo titles tend to not cross over as much.

[shaxper]

Maybe DC just subscribes to the belief that the afterlife is somewhat subjective. Depending upon who you were (and maybe what you believed) you could end up in one of several hells. Or maybe they're all the same hell and it's just a really big place with a lot of different authority figures reigning in it.

[DDM]

Read Alan Moore's Swamp Thing #48-50 (Swamp Thing travels to Hell) & Sandman #19-25 "The Season of Mists" when Morpheus travels to Hell to rescue his exiled ex-girlfriend. Hell is certainly more defined in the DC Universe than it is in the Marvel Universe.

All the Vertigo books take place in the DC Universe, but they seem more disconnected because they are more experimental than your average DC comic book.

[Forsaken_One]

All the Vertigo books take place in the DC Universe, but they seem more disconnected because they are more experimental than your average DC comic book.
I have to disagree with this point. Many Vertigo titles reference events in our own world, are set in futures that have nothing to do with the DCU, and over all aren't in any way related to the DCU. I know of a couple that reference President Bush, a president who doesn't exist in the DCU (Lex Luthor becoming president instead as I remember). Some Vertigo comics reference the war(s) in Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on.

So while some Vertigo comics can be seen as taking place within the DCU, such as Sandman, which sometimes used DC characters and sometimes ignored everything completely, others just plain don't. An example I can think up off the top of my head is Fables, where at one point the Fabletown citizens were worried about being outed in the media as Vampires. That's not really a worry in a world with Superman.

Also Y - The Last Man and DMX certainly aren't in the DCU in any way, shape, or form.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

DC's Hell underwent a pretty big change a few years ago when Lucifer decided to share power in Hell with a bunch of other Devils, including Belial, Belzubub and a few others. Then, in Gaiman's Sandman, Lucifer retired altogether and Hell was left under the control of various different archdemons, like Neron, who first appeared in Waid's Underworld Unleashed.

The Vertigo Hell and the DCU Hell are the same Hell, but they rarely have any interaction with one another, and neither one is bound to the same history. So, while the Lucifer that appears in the Vertigo title is technically the same Lucifer that ruled over the DCU Hell, he no longer lives within the DCU in any way shape or form.

Essentially, the DCU and the Vertigo-verse split into two seperate realities a while ago and only a few character are able to live within both worlds, like The Spectre, Sandman, Swamp Thing, Phantom Stranger and Zatanna. Guys like Constantine and Lucifer have left the DCU altogether, although their past history within the DCU still exists.

[Apathy Boy]

I have to disagree with this point. Many Vertigo titles reference events in our own world, are set in futures that have nothing to do with the DCU, and over all aren't in any way related to the DCU. I know of a couple that reference President Bush, a president who doesn't exist in the DCU (Lex Luthor becoming president instead as I remember). Some Vertigo comics reference the war(s) in Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on.

So while some Vertigo comics can be seen as taking place within the DCU, such as Sandman, which sometimes used DC characters and sometimes ignored everything completely, others just plain don't. An example I can think up off the top of my head is Fables, where at one point the Fabletown citizens were worried about being outed in the media as Vampires. That's not really a worry in a world with Superman.

Also Y - The Last Man and DMX certainly aren't in the DCU in any way, shape, or form.I think the general rule is, if it's a creator-owned Vertigo book, it's not DCU. If it's a Vertigo book starring a DC-owned property, it likely has at least a tangential link to the DCU.

Thus, you can see Swamp Thing pop up in superhero books all the time or see SANDMAN's hell referenced in John Ostrander's THE SPECTRE, but you won't see Jesse Custer telling The Brain to go f*** himself.

[bosshog7169]

Cool that cleared things up a lot for me.

As Far as what Bored at 3:00 am said about Lucifer leaving the DCU for good, I am still confused though. To me, Lucifer is the guy in the Demon books, but is that the same guy we're talking about?

My knowledge is limited because I primarily focused on the Ennis run on this title which I guess happened a long time ago now. I haven't really liked what I've skimmed through from this new Byrne series... How come the Demon doesn't rhyme anymore? wassup with that?!

[LordEd1976]

in Day of Jufgement, who was the demon that punished Neron by making him a rhymining demon?

[JulianPerez]

Another version of the Devil that was either seen or hinted at was the home of C.W. Saturn in MIRACLE MONDAY.

That same story gave the afterlife some metaphysics, too: it was based on the noncorporeal expulsion of "gas waves," which Lex Luthor discovered and used to escape from prison.

[Matt]

Maybe DC just subscribes to the belief that the afterlife is somewhat subjective.

In the last series of The Spectre, this definitely seemed to be the case. The Spectre and the Devil had a chat about the nature of Hell in issues 1 or 2.

In the Emperor Joker story in the Superman titles, the same setup was revealed after Supergirl and Superboy died and went to the Joker's version of Hell (standing around a piana singing naive and happy songs, iirc).

[dancj]

Some Vertigo titles are in the DCU, but they aren't tied down that hard. If they want to do something that completely contradicts the DCU (or probably even other Vertigo DCU titles) then that's fine.

Offhand, ones in the DCU are:
Swamp Thing
Hellblazer
Sandman
Lucifer
Books of Magic
Jonah Hex
Doom Patrol
Animal Man
Black Orchid
Shade the Changing Man

Dan

[bosshog7169]

good stuff, thanks everybody... but can somebody still explain to me why the Demon doesn't rhyme his words anymore... i know its a little off topic but I just don't get why they stopped doing that when it seemed like the coolest aspect of the character to me

[Bored at 3:00AM]

good stuff, thanks everybody... but can somebody still explain to me why the Demon doesn't rhyme his words anymore... i know its a little off topic but I just don't get why they stopped doing that when it seemed like the coolest aspect of the character to me

When Alan Moore started writing Etrigan, he had him always speak in rhyme, which he didn't do when Kirby wrote him. Morrison later explained this in JLA by revealing that there are various different ranks that demons have in Hell. One of those ranks is a rhyming demon. Neron, who was formerly an archdemon, was demoted to a rhyming demon at the end of the story.

So, when Etrigan speaks in rhyme, it means he has the rank of a rhyming demon. Given the mischief the Demon causes for both humans and demons, he gets promoted and demoted a lot. Therefore, sometimes he speaks in rhyme, like when Moore, Gaiman and others write him, and sometimes he doesn't, like when Kirby, Byrne and others write him.

[bosshog7169]

thank you, that explains everything. I've seen the art for Kirby's original demon but I never actually read any of it. I always assumed he started off rhyming.

I hope after this crisis there is only one hell and its ruled by the Demon, and he is made into a rhymer again... and his underboss should be Baytor, ruler of the criminally insane... I would definately buy that comic

[Bouncing Boy]

I remember in the Stanley and His Monster mini by Phil Foglio, Hell was different depending on your perspective. So when Stanley went to Hell to rescue his Monster, Hell to him was like something out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon version of Hell.

[Jolly Mon]

Another version of the Devil that was either seen or hinted at was the home of C.W. Saturn in MIRACLE MONDAY.

That same story gave the afterlife some metaphysics, too: it was based on the noncorporeal expulsion of "gas waves," which Lex Luthor discovered and used to escape from prison.

"Gas waves"? I didn't realize the DCU even had Taco Bells, much less in prisons.

[Citizen V]

Is there any pictures of the DC version of Hell,or information?I remember a few times Marvel gave information about Asgard,and such.So has DC done such a thing with their version of Hell?

Because,ironically..i dont really know much about DC`s hell myself.