Universe or Multiverse: What would you do after IC?

[shaxper]

Assuming the events of IC conclude without a declaritive victory for either E1 or E2, how would you choose to merge the two into a new Earth? Which characters (or incarnations of characters) would you use? How would the general environment and history change (if at all)? Would you try to stay in sync with the real-time world, or would you be willing to abandon that in order to explore an Earth with a somewhat different timeline?

[Watchman]

Just keep it the way it is. ;)

Only exception to that rule is that Jason Todd has to go. :)

[mohammedali]

Replace it with Marvels Ultimate universe. That would be an interesting change :P

[Lurker]

DC's history is so convoluted I wouldn't know where to begin to satisfy the reading audience.

To please myself though, the age of superheroes begins with Superman's appearance. I guess I would build from there "ultimatizing" my own fantasy version of the DCU. Everything would probably evolve out from Superman and Batman stories. I have an "ultimate" version of Green Lantern I just love fiddling with whose origin heavily involves Luthor and eliminating cosmic imbalances. I'm so rambling . . .

[aeastwic]

More blackjack and hookers.

On second thought, forget the blackjack.

[stealthwise]

I'd build a cyclical universe that basically exists in ten year spans. That gives the creative teams a limited amount of time to represent their version of certain DCU characters and properties. It could be shorter (say, five years) or longer (twenty?), but I'd love to see a limited DCU that has repercussions for the universe and their readers.

After the "retirement" of each universe, they would exist in terms of hypertime/Elsewords, with future tales available later on to be told, but no cohesive universe left over.

I would also have the DCU in no way tied into current events or any real-life persons, places, etc. Not that you can't have a New York City, but you don't need to parallel the things that occur in real life just to maintain some pseudo-semblance of a tie to the readers.

[shaxper]

Sounds like Lurker's and Stealthwise's ideas might work well together. Very interesting concepts that I'd love to see DC try.

Stealthwise, I particularly agree with your belief that the DC world doesn't have to sync with ours. I think this gives the writers a lot more freedom to dream and to create cataclysmic threats that have the potential to leave real impacts upon the world.

[stealthwise]

Stealthwise, I particularly agree with your belief that the DC world doesn't have to sync with ours. I think this gives the writers a lot more freedom to dream and to create cataclysmic threats that have the potential to leave real impacts upon the world.

Yeah, I'd really prefer to see that more than the "revamp every x number of years" idea.

To be honest, if either DC or Marvel were to embrace that concept and create their OWN worlds, ones that are actually influenced by all of the science/magic/superheroics, much like Busiek's Astro City and Moore's ABC universe, then you wouldn't have so many problems with synching up real events, continuity and aging, and would be free to tell plenty more stories.

Also, if either company were to do a "big event" with that final goal in mind, it would truly create a memorable company-wide crossover that would have true repercussions.

[shaxper]

I think that was the primary reason I used to enjoy the Valiant universe so much. They weren't afraid to screw with it, particularly in the 4001 AD titles (Magnus, Rai, Psi-Lords, etc)

[Capt USA]

I like stealthwise idea.

I would set the timeline to what Marvel used to claim is their timeline, where 3 years of real time equals 1 year of comic time. I would allow the characters who are capable of aging to age, and keep them around and replace them with next generations of heroes.

using that logic, the dc universe was formed in 1940 our time, which is 60 years of real time or 20 years of comic time, the original flash would be about45-50 years old, Barry would be about 35 years old and that Wally would be mid 20's(rough estimates of course) This would be a good way to gradually age characters and replace them with next generation, but still maintain some continuity.

[shaxper]

My only problem with Marvel's timeline is that their world ages in real time while the characters age in 1/3rd time. If Scott Summers was a teenager in the 1960s and he's still young enough to run around and fight, then it should look like the world of the 1980s, not 2006. On the DC side, I personally think that, if Crisis hadn't retconned everything, It would have been sweet to keep Batman and Superman in their propper 1940s/1950s time period. It gives the backdrop more character and better explains why Batman isn't 88 years old now.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Add me to the list of those who like the idea of a decade-long cyclical continuity that revamps/reboots itself for each new generation.

[PatrickG]

As long as you can borrow characters or touchstone moments from past decades, I'm also in favor of the ten year cycle.

If there's a memorable character pose or moment, let it transcend the reboot.

And there's no point in reintroducing a character like Mongul or The Joker every time. people may screw up certain characters by trying to be novel. Instead, any character that doesn't particularly need an introduction can show up after the reboot without one.

[PatrickG]

Oh...! And without resurrecting the WHOLE multiverse, I think it would be noble if a hero or two sacrificed themselves to keep Earth-2 from re-merging with Earth-1.

I could see Kal-L being setup for that, actually.

And with his death, there would be no exact counterparts of any super-heroes left between the two earths but people would, at least, remember the Earth-2 counterparts.

And Dan Didio would get his wish for a DCU where Superman debuts first.

[multiplexo]

Do you see them actually restarting the books every ten years. JLA pokes along for ten years or so and then at issue 120 or so (assuming monthly publication) it stops and a new Justice League starts with issue #1.

[Paul Newell]

Do you see them actually restarting the books every ten years. JLA pokes along for ten years or so and then at issue 120 or so (assuming monthly publication) it stops and a new Justice League starts with issue #1.
Y'know, that's what a lot of titles have been doing since Crisis.

Justice League of America ended in 1986 and started again with Justice League International. That and its spinoffs finished in 1996 and restarted with JLA....Now, in 2006....

The Legion of Super-Heroes has had more #1's, but the first reboot was in 1994, the next in 2004....

[stealthwise]

As long as you can borrow characters or touchstone moments from past decades, I'm also in favor of the ten year cycle.

If there's a memorable character pose or moment, let it transcend the reboot.

And there's no point in reintroducing a character like Mongul or The Joker every time. people may screw up certain characters by trying to be novel. Instead, any character that doesn't particularly need an introduction can show up after the reboot without one.

I would agree with that, only there would be no reason that you COULDN'T make up a new Joker or Mongul for that particular ten-year reboot. I mean, if you want to make a mix of classic and "new"(ish) characters, then why not screw around as much as you like?

Basically this approach is similar to that of any of the animated DC or Marvel cartoons, only it doesn't lead to eventual continuity confusion.

[stealthwise]

My only problem with Marvel's timeline is that their world ages in real time while the characters age in 1/3rd time. If Scott Summers was a teenager in the 1960s and he's still young enough to run around and fight, then it should look like the world of the 1980s, not 2006. On the DC side, I personally think that, if Crisis hadn't retconned everything, It would have been sweet to keep Batman and Superman in their propper 1940s/1950s time period. It gives the backdrop more character and better explains why Batman isn't 88 years old now.

Well, the best thing about separating either Marvel or DC from the "real world" is that you can manipulate the time of that created universe to meet your own needs.

You can have world war 2 last twenty years... or take place in the 70s. Or have no second world war at all! The repercussions of having superpowered beings that can manipulate time and matter to extraordinary amounts can lead to great possibilities in terms of creating a new, cohesive world.

The characters can age and de-age as much as you like, without worrying about how old so-and-so is (or isn't) becoming while their sidekick matures into adulthood. Tom Strong is a great example of Moore creating an excellent world where he aged the character as much as he felt necessary, and could tell flashback stories whenever he liked, without having to tie it into actual events or worrying about time lines too much.

[Waderpants]

If you don't want to see Earth One and Two both survive, this post is not for you. I like the idea of two separate earths - set in different time periods with no knowledge of each other. It would give you two unique DC Universes to play with. Not three, seven, ten or fifty – just two.

WARNING – it’s pretty long. Here goes:

Earth One: Set in the present - rolls with the present - incorporates things happening in the present. Time moves on, but characters don't age - that's okay - it's a comic book. Reader suspends belief and allows writers to deal with heroes in a present day setting. These characters live in the same world we do.

Batman is Bruce Wayne. He is in the JLA. Teenage Tim Drake is Robin and a Titan. Dick Grayson is Nightwing, in his twenties and heads up the Outsiders. There is no Batgirl. Barbara Gordon is Oracle and a member of the Outsiders -put her and Dick Grayson on the same team - lots of possibilities. Jason Todd is dead. Don't care how they get there, but he is not in the picture. Huntress is in the picture, but Birds of Prey are no more. She is a loner. Catwoman is a villain. Ras Al Ghul is alive and the rest of the Bat-villains are as crazy as ever.

Superman is not married to Lois Lane and she doesn't know he's Clark Kent. Superman is in the JLA. Supergirl is his cousin, who is an Outsider. Connor Kent is Superboy and in the Titans. Lex Luthor is an evil genius who was never president.

Diana is Wonder Woman. Cassie is Wonder Girl and is a Titan. Donna Troy is Troia and is neither a Titan nor an Outsider – she operates in outer space, faraway solar systems and different planes of existence with other celestial members of the team she assembled in Crisis - including Kyle Rayner, Starfire, Firestorm, Adam Strange, etc.

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern and in the JLA. Guy Gardner is retired. John Stewart is on Oa, serving the Guardians and keeping things real. One Green Lantern - that's it.

Barry Allen is the Flash and in the JLA. Bart Allen is Barry’s son, Kid Flash and is a Titan. Wally and his family are alive and well. There is no speed force and he no longer has powers. Nobody else is fast.

Oliver Queen is Green Arrow. He is back with Black Canary and also works with Connor, who needs a new name. Ollie and Dinah are both in the JLA. Roy Harper is Arsenal and an Outsider. Mia is Speedy and in the Titans.

Hawkman is Katar Hol, a policeman from Thanagar. His wife is Thanagarian policewoman Shayera Hol and is Hawkwoman. They are both in the JLA.

Aquaman is in the JLA. Tempest is an Outsider. That's enough ocean dwellers.

Martian Manhunter heads the JLA. That's his purpose.

The Atom is Ray Palmer – he comes back and teams with Ralph Dibney as Elongated Man. They have a lot to talk about. They show up occasionally to work with the JLA.

Booster Gold goes home to his time. Metamorpho is Metamorpho – bye, bye Shift.

The JLA is Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Flash, Hawkman, Hawkwoman, Green Arrow, Black Canary and the Martian Manhunter.

The Outsiders are Nightwing, Oracle, Supergirl, Tempest, Arsenal, Steel, Faith and Metamorpho.

The Titans are Robin, Superboy, Wondergirl, Kid Flash, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Raven and the new Blue Beetle.

Deadman is still dead and still wearing his cool red jammies. Red Tornado is still a robot looking for love.


The magic users are gone from both worlds. Zatanna is no more. Only room for one hot girl in fishnets. She is on another spectral plane with the Phantom Stranger, Jason Blood, Manitou Raven and Dawn, and the other magic users – They and the Earth Two magic users like Spectre and Dr. Fate are perhaps the only ones who know about the two different worlds.

The New Gods exist, but do not yet interact with the heroes of either Earth.


Earth Two: Set in the past - The fifties - in some ways a more innocent time. Heroes were a part of WWII and now must deal with a post-war world. Time doesn't move on - They are special heroes of a special time that is nostalgic for all comic fans.

The JSA exists in its classic incarnation. They are all in their thirties, having fought WWII ten years earlier. Jay Garrick Flash, Alan Scott GL, Dr. Midnite, Hourman, Wildcat, Carter Hall Hawkman, Shiera Sanders Hawkwoman, Sandman, Al Pratt Atom, Dinah Drake Black Canary and Hippolyta Wonder Woman. My one addition would be Plastic Man – He belongs in this world with this team.

Again, no Magic users means no Spectre, Dr. Fate or anybody named Thunder.

Batman and Superman are also in their thirties, married to Selina and Lois. No kids to start. They would be part-time JSA members, but work mostly on their own. Dick Grayson would fight crime as a young twenties Robin with Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Bring back that classic costume with the flying red hair.

I also put the entire Marvel Family on this earth. Let Captain Marvel and Junior work together as a team.

That leaves an amazing All-Female Super Team of young heroes that needs a name. That team would include: Mary Marvel, StarGirl, Powergirl, Hawkgirl, Batgirl and Jade. Then let’s put them with gritty, male chauvenist pig of a squadron leader named Sgt. Rock! Remember it's the fifties.

The surviving Freedom Fighters also belong on this earth.

Okay – that’s what I’d like to see. Two separate universes. What’d I miss? It may not be perfect, but nothing will be. What would you do? I am interested to hear.

[Lurker]

Edited to reflect a thread merge that I had linked too :)

[Shellhead]

I would prefer a 20-year reboot schedule, to give the characters a chance to actually get older within each 20-year arc. If the first Crisis hadn't wiped out the multiverse, DC could have easily done this. Instead of the actual Crisis on Infinite Earths, they could have just firmly rebooted their whole comic line. Anything that was already popular could stay pretty much the same, like Teen Titans was in '85. Other titles that were less popular could get makeovers to try different ideas and maybe grab more readers. The least popular titles could just get cancelled and replaced with some new concepts.

The important element would be to retain the previous continuity as one of the Earths in the multiverse, and let those characters continue to age and change in their continuity, off-screen, like what happened with Earth-2 during the Silver Age. If demand was high enough, DC could even have a couple of ongoing titles set in Earth-1, like they did with Infinity Inc. during the early 80's. As a result, nothing would be permanently lost, characters would be allowed to change and grow, and creators would have an increasingly large range of options to work with.

[Oggar]

Superman was not the first hero, "Mystery Men" start showing up in WWI as meta-genes are activated by the horrors of modern warfare. Setting the stage for the warring super-hero groups of WWII. This also helps to quell human fears about the "super men".

Diana is Wonder Woman and they finally aknowledge that the Amazons are "immortal". She was Wonder Woman is WWII. After WWII she married Steve Trevor and they lived on a secluded island somewhere until his death. After his death she makes her first appearance in modern times. They had children.

Superman shows up. Starting the modern age of superheroes. He's already noticed that his powers seem to retard his aging process. They started to emerge in high school allowing for a Smallville type era. Ma and Pa Kent are long dead so he knows from the begining he's destined to outlive everyone he carers about.

There have been several Capptain Marvel's as the innocence of youth is a predicate to having the power of Shazam. It's how another Black Adam situation is prevented. This has led the Batsons to raise their children in a very sheltered manner to preserve a champion. There's an amnesia like effect when transforming back to human form (not unlike the Hulk) that help preserve this innocence.

Batman stays pretty much as is but Jason Todd is dead as a dodo. He's a very part-time member of the JLA on a strictly as the need arises type basis. Although he and Superman have a sort of off the books friendship/understanding.

Martian Manhunter has been around since the 1950's but has been seemingly inactive for long streches of time as he often takes sabbaticals where he assumes alternate identities in his flailing attempts to understand humanity, such as it is.

As it is I don't think there will be a clear victor. This will allow DC to launch it's own "Ultimate" Universe and maybe another line called "Golden" or some such thing.

[Psyco panda]

One universe... multiple Earths

There are two to three Earths equally spaced orbiting the sun. The Earth 1 guys have their earths, the earth 2 guys have their earths, and anyone who wants it has their earth. That way everyone can still team up, since interplanetary transport isn't really that hard, but it's not the thing that happens every day.

Also, Earth 2 Flash uses a laser gun. For some reason. And the new star wars trilogy did not suck.

[llozymandias]

Yes i mostly prefer the Pre-Crisis Multiverse to the current DCU. If i owned DC i would bring back the Pre-Crisis Multiverse, but at the same time i would keep the current DCU intact. The current DCU would be one of the universes of the DC Multiverse. The number of universes would be at least nigh-infinite. For convience's sake they would be "divided" into "strands". These strands would include:


1.) Pre-Crisis; Crisis never happened here. The Freedom Fighters are native to Earth-X. The Quality Comics characters have counterparts on earths 2, & X. These earths were last seen circa the late 70s to early 80s.


2.) Crisis; Crisis happened here. 1,000-3,000 universes destroyed by the Anti-Monitor. A mere fraction of the universes that exist in a strand of a multiverse. The freedom Fighters (& other Quality chacters) native to Earth-2, but migrated to Earth-X in 1942.

3.) Post-Crisis; The Current DCU, The DCU introduced in Crisis #11, & the Elseworlds.


4.) Wildstorm; The Wildstorm Universe.


5.) Tangent; The Tangent Universe.


6.) ABC; The ABC Universes.


And over time i would add other strands.



A multiverse setting is better for DC than a single solitary universe for several reasons. Here are some of them:


1.) DC can have as many characters as it wants, without having a super-overcrowded earth. Just think how overcrowded the current DCU Earth would be if all the DC, Fawcett, Quality, & Charlton characters were shown to be on that earth. Pre-Crisis; Earth-2 has DC & some Quality characters., Earth-S has Fawcett characters., Earth-4 has Charlton (& possibly Fox & Holyoke) characters., Earth-X has some Quality characters., As well as a possible Earth-Q(Quality) that has all of the Quality characters. While the current DCU Earth has some of the DC/Fawcett/Quality/Charlton/Etc. characters.


2.) When Earth(or universe)-shaking events transpire in one title, those events don't have to be reflected in all the other titles. Just the ones set on the same earth as the title in question. :D


3.) Retcons/revamps/reboots that "alter" continuity make more sense if set on their own earths. :D


4.) All movies & tv series based on DC characters could get their own earths.

[The Shadow]

DC can have as many characters as it wants, without having a super-overcrowded earth. Just think how overcrowded the current DCU Earth would be if all the DC, Fawcett, Quality, & Charlton characters were shown to be on that earth. Pre-Crisis; Earth-2 has DC & some Quality characters., Earth-S has Fawcett characters., Earth-4 has Charlton (& possibly Fox & Holyoke) characters., Earth-X has some Quality characters., As well as a possible Earth-Q(Quality) that has all of the Quality characters. While the current DCU Earth has some of the DC/Fawcett/Quality/Charlton/Etc. characters.
So my question to you is this: How come Marvel can get away with it despite being around as long as DC with probably just as many characters?

(As as side note... anyone know roughly how many total characters DC and Marvel actually have?)

And do you think perhaps Marvel's approach is what helps them maintain their sales and market share dominance over DC year after year?

Marvel has a Multiverse as well... and yet they have no problems with as many characters as they do, nor do they have "overcrowding" problems... why does DC?

And lastly... (and this is my opinion of course) I think DC is getting stale if they have to resort to ANOTHER Crisis (after the original and Zero Hour) that cleans up continuity ( yet again) and keeps rehashing the same stories.

And you have some earths with SOME Quality characters, and another Earth with ALL of them... why fragmeny them? Do the Quality characters REALLY matter that much that they necessitate being on multiple earths AND having one of their own?

All movies & tv series based on DC characters could get their own earths
So you would have Movie Superman, Silver Age Superman, the Golden Age Superman, regular DCU Superman, Smallville Superman, Tangent Superman, 1,000,000 Superman and All Star Superman? Don't you see the absurdity in that??

[Buried Alien]

So my question to you is this: How come Marvel can get away with it despite being around as long as DC with probably just as many characters?

Different companies. Different histories. Different set of operating procedures.


And do you think perhaps Marvel's approach is what helps them maintain their sales and market share dominance over DC year after year?

Well, for years, it seems like the approach has been "Put Wolverine In As Many Books And On As Many Covers As Possible!" :)

Marvel has a Multiverse as well... and yet they have no problems with as many characters as they do, nor do they have "overcrowding" problems... why does DC?

Frankly, it is getting to be quite a problem. The various Marvel timelines today are way more confusing to me than the old DC Multiverse ever was.


And lastly... (and this is my opinion of course) I think DC is getting stale if they have to resort to ANOTHER Crisis (after the original and Zero Hour) that cleans up continuity ( yet again) and keeps rehashing the same stories.

That's a bit of a superficial comparison. There's actually almost nothing in common between ZERO HOUR and INFINITE CRISIS.

And you have some earths with SOME Quality characters, and another Earth with ALL of them... why fragmeny them? Do the Quality characters REALLY matter that much that they necessitate being on multiple earths AND having one of their own?

We don't know. DC has never really tried. Maybe giving them their own universe will give them a little more face time. They do have their fans.



So you would have Movie Superman, Silver Age Superman, the Golden Age Superman, regular DCU Superman, Smallville Superman, Tangent Superman, 1,000,000 Superman and All Star Superman? Don't you see the absurdity in that??

Why not? It sounds like fun. :)


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[PatrickG]

Marvel has a Multiverse as well... and yet they have no problems with as many characters as they do, nor do they have "overcrowding" problems... why does DC?


Three words:

"No more mutants."


So you would have Movie Superman, Silver Age Superman, the Golden Age Superman, regular DCU Superman, Smallville Superman, Tangent Superman, 1,000,000 Superman and All Star Superman? Don't you see the absurdity in that??

Yes. And absurdity is a prerequisite for comic book super-heroes, in my opinion.

[Paul Newell]

So you would have Movie Superman, Silver Age Superman, the Golden Age Superman, regular DCU Superman, Smallville Superman, Tangent Superman, 1,000,000 Superman and All Star Superman? Don't you see the absurdity in that??

And Movie Spider-Man, Animated Spider-Man, Regular Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Marvel Knights Spider-Man, Marvel Manga Spider-Man, Earth-X Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2099, Arana and Indian Spider-Man, isn't absurd?

The answer to your question is saturation. Marvel have the saturation trick down pat and have done for years. Martin Goodman, once Marvel was out from under the distribution restrictions imposed upon them by DC, started that trick and Marvel have never stopped.

DC have attempted the same but have never been quite as successful at it. You'll never see them build a franchise like the X and Spider fans who will buy anything featuring appearances by the characters they love.

[Agentum]

Replace it with Marvels Ultimate universe. That would be an interesting change :P
hahahhahahaha :D
In the two years later run DCU become MU 616, SUPRISE!!

[The Shadow]

Well, for years, it seems like the approach has been "Put Wolverine In As Many Books And On As Many Covers As Possible!" :)
And DC does it with Batman... yet not quite as well.

Frankly, it is getting to be quite a problem. The various Marvel timelines today are way more confusing to me than the old DC Multiverse ever was.
How so???

That's a bit of a superficial comparison. There's actually almost nothing in common between ZERO HOUR and INFINITE CRISIS.
What? Both were attempts to fix continuity. That's a huge commonality.

[The Shadow]

Three words:
"No more mutants."
And most of those "3 million" mutants were not factors in ANY comics on any kind of regularity.

Sure the odd big one got depowered... but the majority of the important ones did not.

[The Shadow]

And Movie Spider-Man, Animated Spider-Man, Regular Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Marvel Knights Spider-Man, Marvel Manga Spider-Man, Earth-X Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2099, Arana and Indian Spider-Man, isn't absurd?
ummmm.... yeah... good point! LOL

DC have attempted the same but have never been quite as successful at it. You'll never see them build a franchise like the X and Spider fans who will buy anything featuring appearances by the characters they love.
Is that due to poor characterization? Confusing history? Boring archtypes? It's not due to bad writers or artists.

IMO Batman is a far more interesting character than everyone but Spider-Man... why do you think DC can't make him or Superman (the ORIGINAL hero) a franchise?

[Buried Alien]

And DC does it with Batman... yet not quite as well.

In general, however, Batman is a much bigger icon and more of a marketing bonanza than Wolverine (in terms of things outside of just comic books). Moreover, how is the rather mindless "whoring" of a character's image a *good* thing, even if it does spike revenue? So it helps Marvel sell a few more books than DC does, but otherwise, it really isn't something to brag about.


How so???

During the Pre-COIE era, the Multiverse never needed more than a panel or two to be explained to an audience that included children. The multiple Marvel timelines? I think it'd take half a day for me to figure out what's going on and another half day to figure out how to present it to someone unfamiliar with it without losing him.


What? Both were attempts to fix continuity. That's a huge commonality.

And you don't find that single point of comparison superficial? You might as well argue that INFINITE CRISIS is just a rehash of ZERO HOUR because both feature superheroes.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Shadow]

In general, however, Batman is a much bigger icon and more of a marketing bonanza than Wolverine (in terms of things outside of just comic books). Moreover, how is the rather mindless "whoring" of a character's image a *good* thing, even if it does spike revenue? So it helps Marvel sell a few more books than DC does, but otherwise, it really isn't something to brag about.
My point is that DC whore's out Batman... just not as effectivly. And Marvel is making an effort to reduce Wolverine's appearances (according to Joe at Newsarama).

The multiple Marvel timelines? I think it'd take half a day for me to figure out what's going on and another half day to figure out how to present it to someone unfamiliar with it without losing him.
What multiple Marvel timelines?

Nothing runs concurrently.

There's the regular Marvel U and The Ultimate stuff.

Any other timelines like the Next Generation stuff or Ultimate stuff has NOTHING to do with the regular universe... in fact they don't even cross over!

The odd timeline like Age of Apocalypse is a story and then its done.

I think you're being unrealistic in your "take half a day for me to figure out what's going on and another half day to figure out how to present it to someone unfamiliar with it" assessment while maintaining that the DC Multiverse is easier.

What Marvel universe isn't explainable in a panel?

AoA? Alternate reality where Apocalypse is the ruler.
Spider-Girl? A POSSIBLE future for Spider-Man (like Kingdome Come)
Ultimate Universe? An alternate reality without 40+ years of stories.

[PatrickG]

What Marvel universe isn't explainable in a panel?

AoA? Alternate reality where Apocalypse is the ruler.
Spider-Girl? A POSSIBLE future for Spider-Man (like Kingdome Come)
Ultimate Universe? An alternate reality without 40+ years of stories.


Earth-2? Alternate world where super-heroes existed in the 1940s.

Earth-3? Alternate world where good is bad and bad is good.

Earth-5? The world where Blue Beetle, Captain Atom and crew exist.

Earth-S? The Marvel Family earth.

Earth-X? Alternate world where the Nazis won World War II.

Earth-Prime? Alternate world where super-heroes are comic book characters published by DC Comics.

Earth-C? Alternate world where humanoid animals exist.

I don't see why one is easier or harder, especially since only one or two major DC stories a year even made use of the multiple earths.

Marvel isn't using their multiverse now anymore than DC was using theirs in 1980. Marvel doesn't have any more major earths to keep track of than DC did then.

[Paul Newell]

Is that due to poor characterization? Confusing history? Boring archtypes? It's not due to bad writers or artists.

IMO Batman is a far more interesting character than everyone but Spider-Man... why do you think DC can't make him or Superman (the ORIGINAL hero) a franchise?

To be frank I think one reason is that DC readers will put up with less crap than Marvel readers. If the Batman titles get confusing or boring readers will drop the title. If the X-titles get confusing or boring readers keep buying regardless. This is the reason why Marvel quietly retired the "Marvel Zombie" tag in the late 90's.

Also Marvel have been really clever in how they've structured their titles and tied in new titles to a "franchise". You'll get people that will buy all the X-titles, the Spider titles, Avengers titles, etc. But you'll also have people who will buy only the Ultimate titles, which includes some X and Spider titles. Or the Marvel Knights titles which does the same. Even though, to me, there isn't much difference in the product, a lot of Marvel readers "specialise".

At DC, however, the only brand you really have that happening with is Vertigo.

[llozymandias]

If i owned DC, i would bring back the multiverse. As i have said before, the current DCU would be kept as is. There would be titles set in many of the universes of the multiverse. That would be built up over time, not done all at once. The main universes used at first would be:



1.) The Current DCU; no need to alienate the fans who like this universe in order to bring back the other universes. There would be two new titles each for Superman & Batman; since Action & Detective would be Earth-2, Superman & Batman would be Earth-1.


2.) Pre-Crisis (unaffected by the Crisis) Earth-1; Superman & another yet to be named superman title, Batman & another yet to be named Batman title, A Superboy title, Justice League of America, Legion of Super-Heroes, & others over time.


3.) Pre-Crisis (unaffected by the Crisis) Earth-2; Action Comics & another yet to be named Superman title, Detective Comics, All-Star Squadron, All-Star Comics(justice Society of America), & others over time.


4.) Pre-Crisis (unaffected by the Crisis) Earth-4; Captain Atom, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord); & others over time. The characters on this earth would include characters from Charlton, Fox, & Holyoke.


5.) Pre-Crisis (unaffected by the Crisis) Earth-12; Inferior five.


6.) Pre-Crisis (unaffected by the Crisis) Earth-S; A few yet to be named titles about the Marvel Family, & others over time. Characters on this earth would include all the Fawcett characters & Kid Eternity.




Also over time there would be stories set in the universes where the Crisis did take place. As well as the Post-Crisis Earth introduced in Crisis #11. :D

[Maleficentogre]

the only way I'll be happy with a multiverse is if they promise to leave EVERYTHING in this universe exactly the way it is (that means we lose NO characters to other earths) and that we'll never see the other earth characters come anywhere near our earth and it's characters.

[Pookienick]

I've been thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that .... I don't actually care if there is a single universe or a multiverse. I have been reading comics for twenty years and will probably continue for another twenty. Whatever happens some of the comics will be good and some of the comics will be bad.

I have always read whatever I have enjoyed reading and never really taken notice of what I 'should be' reading. I also never read comics and moan about continuity - you're reading about people who can fly and fire heat beams from their eyes or swing round skyscrapers without breaking all the bones in their body. The fact that they have slightly different costumes or are in two places at once never really seems to bother me - as long as the story is good.

I read comics because of the pleasure I get from reading them, and DC currently get much more of my money than Marvel so they must be doing something right. As long as the stories are as good as they have been I will buy them - multiverse or no multiverse.

[DCKar2nist]

Three words:

"No more mutants."

Yea wasnt that what House of M was all about, less heroes/mutants.

There should be at least 2 earths a JSA earth and a JLA earth like the old days. I still dont see how that could complicate anything, if anything it'll simplify everything.