Plastic Man 20: Final Issue (Preview Spoilers)

[Gauss]

From the Mile High Comics preview pages: (http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/012506/pm20cvr.html)

"Billy Batson.

Hero.

Legend.

Child.

Dead.

Sivana blasting Billy full of holes would have been bad enough. Bad enough got worse when Sivana invited Doctor Light over to do what Dr. Light does to victims now. Like that's Light's new power now."

Isn't it sad when a formerly light-hearted series gets so dark and gritty that cancellation is it's only hope? :(

Let's send off Plas in style, ladies and gentlemen.

[Lex]

I love Kyle Baker. He just can't help himself. All throughout Plastic Man there are many times he's giving DC "the bird" through the writing.

I laughed when I read those preview pages. I'm not saying that I thnk rape is funny in any way, I'm saying that I thought it was funny that Baker is once again making fun of something dumb and anti-fun that has happened in comics recently.

[Watchman]

Is there going to be a new Plastic Man series or is it the end for good?

[Bat-Mite]

Isn't it sad when a formerly light-hearted series gets so dark and gritty that cancellation is it's only hope?

Well, you gotta understand that it's not that Plastic Man became grim and gritty, but it's just that it's making fun of grim and gritty rape comics.

I'm not saying that I thnk rape is funny in any way

What if shrub rapes a clown?

[Sean Walsh]

"These black leather briefs make my butt itch."

Sorry, but any claims of seriously trying to be dark ended on page 2.

[Agentum]

I think this series has been fun, to bad this type of comic can't survive today.

[Gauss]

Well, you gotta understand that it's not that Plastic Man became grim and gritty, but it's just that it's making fun of grim and gritty rape comics.

I knew that was gonna happen. Stupid subtle irony. ;)

[Bat-Mite]

Actually, what you tried to do was Sarcasm, me thinks.

Sorry, just being unnecessarily pedantic.

[davros42]

"Superheroes are children's first role models..."


Right above a shot of the particulary skanky Supergirl and Huntress.

Notice the provocative poses of the other female superheroes... and where that priest is looking. Good stuff, I'm thinking I should have picked up this series earlier...

[noh-varr]

This will go down as one of the greatest comics in the last few years that readers were once more ignorant or too busy worrying about lame hype to read. Which is disapointing, though the time travel issues are still the best! Hands down.

[noh-varr]

You know I bet if they advertised in Wizard that Captain Marvel would be raped by Dr Light this book would suddenly recoup and would sell thousands! You know writing that and knowing it's probably true makes me feel very sad like someone stepped on my poodle, but you know less sarcastic and more depressed.

[amorn]

Billy batson.....raped by dr. light? wtf? Am i understanding this right?

[noh-varr]

Billy batson.....raped by dr. light? wtf? Am i understanding this right?

Yes now you must pick up every issue of Plastic Man to know the truth! (maybe it is a good sales pitch after all.....)



It's all part of the Edwina Crisis which is part of the best DCU book that has nothing to do with the DCU continuity at all and is all mocking the gritty plots and big pointless crossovers that are now the rage once again.

[Bat-Mite]

Billy batson.....raped by dr. light?

Don't worry, he was dead when that happened.

[Bedlam66]

I tried the first 9 or 10 issues because I love plas but I hated this series and just couldn't get into it. Sorry.

[amorn]

Don't worry, he was dead when that happened.

Umm....i'm not sure if that makes me feel more or less relief...

[Joe Rice]

Billy Batson: RIP.

[noh-varr]

So who picked up this issue? I'll be getting it sometime over the weekend, but how bout the rest?

[noh-varr]

Alright this is one of the best issues of the series! Only beat by the classic kill Abraham Lincoln storyline.

Jokes about Dr Light (and his new "power"), the trilogy breaking up, crisis and so much more. How can this be cancelled yet Aquaman keeps on getting printed?

So much was great about this issue, how come no one is talking about it? Did everyone else disagree?

[Lex]

Joe Rice started a long thread about it on the Community board. We talked about it there, but I guess I didn't think to talk about it here too.

[Zeta]

I wonder if the Billy Batson thing was sly reference to Morrison's run on Miracleman.

[Lex]

I wonder if the Billy Batson thing was sly reference to Morrison's run on Miracleman.I think it was mostly a dig at Identity Crisis... and a pretty funny one at that.

[Bat-Mite]

I wonder if the Billy Batson thing was sly reference to Morrison's run on Miracleman.

Moore, you mean.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm going to miss this book. Although, I can totally understand why DC is ending it. Baker is the only reason this book exists. If he wants to move on, there's no point in keeping it going. Hopefully, somebody will pick up Plas and keep him going One Year Later. JSA would be a nice temporary home for Plastic Man. He is a Golden Ager again. Former member of the All-Star Squadron. I think it would be a nice fit.

[Bat-Mite]

If he wants to move on, there's no point in keeping it going.

I think the cancellation has more to do with Plas being DC's lowest seller, despite the critical acclaim, than Kyle Baker going anywhere.

[Captain_Video]

Its my fault this book got cancelled.

All my favourite books get cancelled.

This one in particular I have every issue of, I have loved it since day one, easily the most underrated mainstream big two superhero title of them all.

Highlights have to be the issue with the mouse, great Tom and Jerry inspired comedy.

The Aforementioned Abe Lincoln storyline.

"Superman not eat a cat and bizarro opposite of superman so will eat the cat"

Batman going off into a little psychotic rant and everyone just kind of ignoring him "guns, my parents where killed by the gun"

Man I am going to miss this comic, I will be sure to continue to pick up Kyle Baker's other self published stuff.

[jadegiant77]

Meh. I won't shed any tears over this dreck. I don't care if yuir trying to make a point, rape is just not funny...especially the rape of a young boy by some 40 yr old supervillain!

This series wasn't my cup of tea.

[Bat-Mite]

rape is just not funny

Everything can be funny!

http://www.ghira.mistral.co.uk/death.gif

[noh-varr]

Meh. I won't shed any tears over this dreck. I don't care if yuir trying to make a point, rape is just not funny...especially the rape of a young boy by some 40 yr old supervillain!

This series wasn't my cup of tea.

It wasn't the rape that was the really funny part it was the whole ripping into the dark and grittiness. And yet at the same time, if you look at Mary Marve's speech it is the best interpretation of superheros that I've read in ages! But that will of course be looked over as will this great series that will still be one of the best DCU books that's come out in the last several years. And let's face some facts, Dr Light will now always be thought of the guy who rapes people, don't blame Plastic Man for bringing it up, I do believe it was Identity Crisis, but that was a good story cuz it was popular, buncha bs. Plastic Man gets cancelled and it was brilliant, Identity Crisis is hugely popular with a lackluster story and helps push the universe into utter crap.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think the cancellation has more to do with Plas being DC's lowest seller, despite the critical acclaim, than Kyle Baker going anywhere.

Not true.

In all the interviews I've read with Kyle Baker, he said DC didn't really care how poorly the monthly book sold, because they knew they'd make all their money in various TPBs and hardback collections later on down the road. Kyle Baker's name sells--just not in the monthly 22 page format. Baker said that DC would publish the book as long as he wanted to do it. And they did. In the last interview I read with Baker, he said he wanted to do something else after 20 issues of the same character. Which is perfectly understandable for a creator as talented as Baker.

So, let's end this nonsense that Big Bad DC killed Baker's poor Plastic Man because it wasn't selling. In the long run, Kyle Baker's Plastic Man is gonna make more money than most of the books DC is publishing at the moment.

Unless of course somebody wants to claim Baker is lying, the idea that DC cancelled the book because it sold poorly just isn't true. Plastic Man ended because Kyle Baker wanted to do something else.

[Joe Rice]

Bored, just because DC was once happy with publishing it at a front-end loss doesn't mean it always would be. They've made, what, two trades so far? They couldn't really be recooping much. I don't think Baker was lying or anything, but I also don't think he got to this issue and said, "OK, I'm done." It was cancelled out from under him.

[Bat-Mite]

I suppose we will know what happened when DC keeps making trades out of the remaining uncollected issues.

[Joe Rice]

By the by, I don't think it's a "mean old DC" issue. It was smart business to cancel the book. It wasn't making money. I'm proud of them for keeping it for so long. It's the idiot readers that are to blame.

[gentlesatirist]

...is a great example of the gap between what comic critics and educated fans - both online and in print - say they want and what the market wil actually bear.

This series started out well from a sales perspective, but eventually settled under 20k per issue and had been under 10k for the last few. DC's Cartoon Network titles routinely fall below this level, but I think they're among the few that can generate sale outside of comic shops, so they've mostly been spared. (Although the excellent Powerpuff Girls comic is ending this month with #70.)

That's a low sales # for DC to endure, even for Kyle Baker. I also don't think the two trades have been setting sales records. I thoroughly enjoyed most of this series, though.

The art and style and tone and pacing were far from standard-issue comic fare. This has to mean that in spite of a # of voices railing against the same-old same-old in the comics field, a larger # doesn't want change.


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Bored, just because DC was once happy with publishing it at a front-end loss doesn't mean it always would be. They've made, what, two trades so far? They couldn't really be recooping much. I don't think Baker was lying or anything, but I also don't think he got to this issue and said, "OK, I'm done." It was cancelled out from under him.

The interview I'm talking about couldn't have been more than a few months old. And at that point, Baker seemed ready to be done with the whole thing and wanting to move on to different things. Cancelled out from under him? I don't think so. The book's entire survival depended upon Baker's willingness to continue. He didn't want to continue. Plastic Man is cancelled. A very similar thing happened with Gotham Central when Greg Rucka left. That comic also sold almost nothing, but DC kept it going because they knew it was a damned good book. Rucka didn't feel like continuing. DC saw no reason to continue it without him or Lark or Brubaker around to do the book anymore. Likewise, Plastic Man without Baker is not worth continuing.

Anybody else remember reading this interview?

[Joe Rice]

I remember the interview you're talking about. But I can pretty much guarantee you that this wasn't Kyle's idea. He was ready to keep going on this. Good money, easy work.

[Bat-Mite]

A very similar thing happened with Gotham Central when Greg Rucka left. That comic also sold almost nothing, but DC kept it going because they knew it was a damned good book.

OK, a few things.

Gotham Central was certainly not setting the charts on fire, but it sold enough to keep going. It at least sold more than series DC actually had to cancel.

(120) GOTHAM CENTRAL
12/2003: Gotham Central #14 -- 17,635
-------------------------------------
12/2004: Gotham Central #26 -- 17,094 (- 3.3%)
01/2005: Gotham Central #27 -- 16,751 (- 2.0%)
02/2005: Gotham Central #28 -- 16,569 (- 1.1%)
03/2005: Gotham Central #29 -- 16,881 (+ 1.9%)
04/2005: Gotham Central #30 -- 16,465 (- 2.5%)
05/2005: Gotham Central #31 -- 16,380 (- 0.5%)
06/2005: Gotham Central #32 -- 16,694 (+ 1.9%)
07/2005: Gotham Central #33 -- 16,915 (+ 1.3%)
08/2005: Gotham Central #34 -- 19,215 (+13.6%)
09/2005: Gotham Central #35 -- 17,565 (- 8.6%)
10/2005: Gotham Central #36 -- 18,026 (+ 2.6%)
11/2005: Gotham Central #37 -- 20,832 (+15.6%)
12/2005: Gotham Central #38 -- 18,630 (-10.6%)

Those numbers would be fine enough for a Vertigo series.

Also, it is not getting canceled, but it's going to return with a new first issue and a new title. Rucka will keep writing it.

Feel free to point me in the direction of a news article that says everything has changed and that what I said it is not going to happen. In which case I will simply say "D'OH!"

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I remember the interview you're talking about. But I can pretty much guarantee you that this wasn't Kyle's idea. He was ready to keep going on this. Good money, easy work.

Then we're remembering a different interview. Because he wasn't ready to keep going with the series in the interview I read. He said he had to do the entire book himself to even make it worth the money. That doesn't sound like good money for easy work to me. As a result, he wasn't sure whether he wanted to keep doing it, when he had other work that he was more interested in pursuing.

Dammit, I really wish I could remember where I read this interview now and just post it. He talked about Neal Adams a lot in it, about how DC keeps making money off of his GL/GA stuff and DC figures the same thing will happen with Baker's Plastic Man. It may lose money now, but in ten years, it'll still be making them money from reprints. I mean, how many times has DC reprinted Watchmen and Adam's GL/GA at this point? It must be like printing money for DC.

Anywho, I'm sure the next interview Baker does will address this, so all we have to do now is wait.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Those numbers would be fine enough for a Vertigo series.

Also, it is not getting canceled, but it's going to return with a new first issue and a new title. Rucka will keep writing it.

Feel free to point me in the direction of a news article that says everything has changed and that what I said it is not going to happen. In which case I will simply say "D'OH!"

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=49462&highlight=Greg+Rucka+Gotham+Central

Check the last interview he did about Gotham Central at Newsarama. Rich Johnson started a rumor that the series was going to be restarted as "The Streets of Gotham" One Year Later, but this isn't actually going to happen. Rucka doesn't want to do the book without Ed Brubaker or Michael Lark, who are both exclusive at Marvel. So the book was ended. At this point, there will be no "Streets of Gotham". However, Rene Montoya will be starring in 52 which Rucka is co-writing.

You are right, though, that Gotham Central sold much better than Plastic Man ever did.

[cactusmaac]

Then we're remembering a different interview. Because he wasn't ready to keep going with the series in the interview I read. He said he had to do the entire book himself to even make it worth the money. That doesn't sound like good money for easy work to me. As a result, he wasn't sure whether he wanted to keep doing it, when he had other work that he was more interested in pursuing.

Dammit, I really wish I could remember where I read this interview now and just post it. He talked about Neal Adams a lot in it, about how DC keeps making money off of his GL/GA stuff and DC figures the same thing will happen with Baker's Plastic Man. It may lose money now, but in ten years, it'll still be making them money from reprints. I mean, how many times has DC reprinted Watchmen and Adam's GL/GA at this point? It must be like printing money for DC.

Anywho, I'm sure the next interview Baker does will address this, so all we have to do now is wait.


http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/resources/interviews/2251/

[Bored at 3:00AM]

http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/resources/interviews/2251/

You are a gentleman and a poet, cactusmaac. Thank you.

However, I have since learned that Baker probably would have continued doing Plastic Man if DC wanted to keep it going, so I was wrong. My bad.

Granted, I'm also glad they ended when they did. Like JLU, I'd rather see a series go out at the top of its game.

[gentlesatirist]

...this final issue yesterday. It finds Baker at the top of his game, going out guns blazing at the DC Universe while tying up some of the series' loose ends.

(The sales #s cited for Gotham Central are quite a bit higher than what Plastic Man did in the last 6 months or so, by the way.)

It seems like Baker is looking at the whole Inifinite Crisis thing the same way I am : You don't really like it that much, but it's like a car wreck, and you can't look away because you want to find out what happens to the characters.


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[noh-varr]

Well come on we knew DC couldn't keep pushing the book as sadly no one was buying it, I don't see DC as evil (well not in this case) I just wish the readers would wake up and read better sh*t. The whole epic changes that will be changed back in a few years, is tiresome and bores me. I want new stuff! Plastic Man was new stuff that most comic stores carried. I'm waiting for Baker's Nat Turner to go to trade (I picked up one issue but it wasn't enough and I get impatient, he said it will be collected and I'll be the first in line for it at least here since here we all love Superhero and big "changes" that don't change a thing). But I digress....