Infinite Crisis #5 Speculations! [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

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Firestorm23

01-22-2006, 11:58 AM

what do you think will happen in Infinite crisis 5 how will the jsa react to were they are, who will win superman or superman?!

Bat-Mite

01-22-2006, 12:03 PM

I assume Grampa-Superman will learn what Alex Luthor and Whiny-Boy-prime did, and then he will spank them and help fix everything.

TheSaltedSuperman

01-22-2006, 12:50 PM

I'm hoping they give a little more explaination about what happened to the speed force.

I also think E2 Supes will get wise to what really happened at the end, and if not in #5 then in # 6 for sure.

DDM

01-22-2006, 12:52 PM

Hopefully, Superman will knock some sense into the Golden Age Superman. However, I believe Batman will break the fight up when he discovers more about Alexander Luthor's plot via Brother Eye.

Apathy Boy

01-22-2006, 02:56 PM

I want to hear a character point out that this is the second time in a year that a million+ people have vanished from the face of the earth.

Watchman

01-22-2006, 04:22 PM

Joker makes his big kickass comeback. That's pretty much all I'm waiting for right now.

Babylon23

01-22-2006, 07:43 PM

I'm interested to see whether the heroes have memories of Earth-Prime, or whether returning to Earth-2 has changed their memories. It may be that the JSA doesn't realise things are different.

Murrocko

01-22-2006, 08:26 PM

Nightwing gets a bunch of heros together and they kick someone's ass.

Guts/Batman

01-23-2006, 03:25 AM

Hopefully, Superman will knock some sense into the Golden Age Superman. However, I believe Batman will break the fight up when he discovers more about Alexander Luthor's plot via Brother Eye.

Agreed totally.

As much as I don't like current Superman, I think E2 Superman needs a punch in the mouth.

Arkham Resident

01-23-2006, 06:05 AM

Since the very start of IC i'd hope that the Big Three will right whatever wrong they've done Pre-IC.

Diana already somehow regained herself by refusing to lead her people into a senseless battle with the OMACS. Somehow directly or indirectly showing that she's not a cold-blooded murderer.

Batman's showing his human side. Going to Dick and telling him that he needed his help. Coming from Batman, this is very unusual. and like any person who needs to be affirmed from time to time, he had to ask Dick if his early years under Bruce's mentorship was good. Dick says they're in fact the best. I hope in IC#5, he justifies himself and disables Brother Eye. Or even stretching this further i hope he and Dick make Slade pay for what he did to Bludhaven. That a fight i've been waiting for. Bruce vs. Slade.

For Kal-El, well i just hope he kicks Kal-L's ass good and somehow recover by inspiring the others to battle which he has not done for a long time now.

I'd like to see this happen before IC ends.. :)

PatrickG

01-23-2006, 06:24 AM

Kal-L hasn't done anything wrong...!

Heck, he hasn't done anything of substance yet.

He broke everybody out of the Pocket Dimension but Luthor and Superboy-Prime were getting out under their own steam. Earth-2 Superman, so far, has asked for a few people's help and... that's it.

He acknowledged Batman's concerns. In fact, I think he seems fairly level-headed and reasonable for a guy who was fed a line to save his dying wife. He also made it pretty clear that he's against killing and he's not aware of what Alex and Superboy-Prime are really like or what they've been up to... but only because he was distracted by Lois' health.

Also, from what I gather, Alex and Superboy-Prime plan on tossing Earth-2 when they're done with everything... and it seems like Alex may be responsible for Lois' bad health. So, really, Kal-L is a victim in this too.

What has he done to deserve getting beat up?

I expect a fight because there's a massive misunderstanding here but the sooner the dust clears and Kal-L and Kal-El get together to save their worlds, the better for everyone.

Shellhead

01-23-2006, 08:11 AM

I find the speculation that Lois Lane-Kent of Earth 2 is an evil conspirator in Alex's master plan [edit] to be absurd. My best guess is that we will find out that Alex caused her health problems, and has manipulated her health to control Kal-L. When he needed a distraction so that he and Superboy-Prime could pay a visit to Earth, he would make Lois get sicker. When Kal-L finds this out, he's going to switch sides and take Alex down.

PatrickG

01-23-2006, 08:38 AM

Un;ess this turns out to be something like Alex's response to the Trinity's bad behavior...

Somebody accuses him of manipulating Lois' health and he's like, "Actually, she's just old."

It would be funny if that became a recurring thing in this series. That even though he's a bad guy, he turns out to be right.

A part of me would laugh if the DC heroes beat Luthor... and then another villain came along, the heroes started bickering and earth got blown up, proving Alex right...

Guts/Batman

01-23-2006, 12:56 PM

I find Kal-L to be extremely selfish in this ordeal. That's why I feel he needs an ass kicking. He is mainly thinking of himself.

He isn't even considering the lives that are going to be destroyed or families that will be ripped apart by bringing back the Earth-2.

The end isn't what makes you a villain...it is the means which you use to attain your means.

yeoman

01-23-2006, 01:04 PM

My guesses for IC #5:

1) More head punchings.

2) The senseless and bloody deaths of more 90's characters.

3) Barry Allen comes back just to make sure everything is exactly what it was prior to Crisis.

trickster

01-23-2006, 01:11 PM

That a fight i've been waiting for. Bruce vs. Slade.

Heh, there was a thread some time ago, about how batman constantly got his ass handed to him by Deathstroke. Kinda makes you wonder: could Slade beat Shiva? I think he could considering he's almost a metahuman.

stillanerd

01-23-2006, 01:26 PM

I have a feeling that during the battle between Superman and Earth-2 Superman, Clark is going to loose his powers due to the fact because they are essentially the same person occupying the same space. Remember what happened when Supergirl came in contact with Power Girl? Perhaps Kal-L power increases while Clark's power decreases.

Wannabe

01-23-2006, 03:42 PM

I'm hoping that Joker comes back and fries Red Hood. It would be such a perfect death to a character many people disagree with.

nuclearman

01-23-2006, 04:50 PM

I'm hoping that Joker comes back and fries Red Hood. It would be such a perfect death to a character many people disagree with.
maybe black mask has done that already??

Wannabe

01-23-2006, 06:00 PM

Oops. My bad.

Guts/Batman

01-23-2006, 06:18 PM

Oops. My bad.

He hasn't. He can't have done it already. There's still two issues left on Winick's run on Batman. Do you think that Winick will let his pet die by the hands of a closet Kung Fu master like Black Mask?

There is only one person who can kill the Red Hood. And that man is the Joker.

converge241

01-23-2006, 06:22 PM

doe the DCU jump OYL after IC 5 or 6?

TheSaltedSuperman

01-23-2006, 06:49 PM

doe the DCU jump OYL after IC 5 or 6?

Six I think, but then again I could be wrong....it wouldn't be the first time.

Guts/Batman

01-23-2006, 06:53 PM

I heard it was #5.

stealthwise

01-23-2006, 08:21 PM

Anyone have OYL solicits?

Tom

01-23-2006, 08:23 PM

OYL starts in March, so it's after issue 5.

Chip Whitley

01-23-2006, 08:58 PM

From last Wednesday's Crisis Counseling on Newsarama:
?:While we know that as you've described for Infinite Crisis #5 "there's a moment where everything seems to align just perfectly and that's when we make the jump OYL" or something to that paraphrase. Just to reconfirm, are IC issues #6 and #7 also after the OYL jump or does the story itself finish before the jump occurs?

Dan Didio: Okay, from the top, the unifying “Echo Effect” in Crisis #5 ties into the monthly books in February. The DCU timeline continues into Crisis #6 and #7. 52 starts one week after the end of Crisis #7 and the One Year Later stories, which start in March, take place following the end of 52.

Andromeda_Daxamite

01-23-2006, 10:23 PM

Hopefully, Power Girl gets free and does what she does best... Kick ass.

stealthwise

01-23-2006, 10:41 PM

Thanks Tom and Chip!

Shellhead

01-24-2006, 06:35 AM

Hopefully, Power Girl gets free and does what she does best... Kick ass.

I thought what she did best was fill a bra.

Mulett

01-24-2006, 08:56 AM

Isn't this the issue where

Superman and Superman come to blows?

If so, it should be a good one. Based on what Alex said about Earth-2 just being a 'stop along the way' I guess he means he is either going to try and bring back the whole multiverse or keep replacing one earth with another until he gets it right (in his view).

So I reckon Kal-L may well cotton on to Alex's scheming this issue, and Earth-2 Lois might kick the bucket. I would think, also, that the 'big bad' will be revealed - assuming Alex isn't the real villain.

Calculator

01-24-2006, 11:01 AM

Seeing as we are more than half-way complete with the mini-series, and Alex Luthor is just now seperating out what he wants in his new universe, and that the one year jump is very close, I believe he will be successful in his endeavours and in a sense wins. I don't think he'll live to see it though. Between the Joker, Black Adam, and Power Girl...he's going down hard.

My predictions...

Guts/Batman

01-24-2006, 11:05 AM

I thought what she did best was fill a bra.

Oh come now, Karen doesn't wear a bra. That's why the look saggy at times. ;)

Guts/Batman

01-24-2006, 11:06 AM

I don't think he'll live to see it though. Between the Joker, Black Adam, and Power Girl...he's going down hard.

Logically...those three shouldn't be able to do a damned thing to him.

Amethyst Rose

01-24-2006, 02:22 PM

Since when does logic apply to the Joker?

Guts/Batman

01-24-2006, 02:26 PM

Since when does logic apply to the Joker?

I'm not talking about that kind of logic, but internal logic of the story and consistency of abilities and power. If Alexander is really that powerful...Joker, Black Adam and Power Girl shouldn't be any problem for him to deal with.

It will have to come from an very, very, very, very uber power source that will stop him.

Murrocko

01-24-2006, 02:41 PM

What is Alexander power anyway?

Watchman

01-24-2006, 02:44 PM

I'm not talking about that kind of logic, but internal logic of the story and consistency of abilities and power. If Alexander is really that powerful...Joker, Black Adam and Power Girl shouldn't be any problem for him to deal with.

It will have to come from an very, very, very, very uber power source that will stop him.
Nevertheless, the Joker better do something big anyway, at least to the Society.

What about Johnny Sorrow? ;) Yes, yes, I know, he probably won't even be showing up in the IC.

Amethyst Rose

01-24-2006, 02:45 PM

Oh, OK. Or it could be the simplest thing that takes him down, something he didn't even think to consider because it would be beneath him.

Shellhead

01-24-2006, 03:17 PM

Oh come now, Karen doesn't wear a bra. That's why the look saggy at times. ;)

She only looks saggy at times when Jiminez draws her. Everybody else makes her look firm. Of course, Jiminez also made Kal-L look like an elderly Nicolas Cage for one panel in Infinite Crisis #2, so maybe he's just careless or having fun with his art.

Calculator

01-24-2006, 08:53 PM

Logically...those three shouldn't be able to do a damned thing to him.

While I wish things were that simple...this is comics we are talking about. I love the medium to death, but I learned to leave my logic cap at the door. In a world where Batman can take on Darkseid hand to hand...I can safely assume the Joker can kill Alexander Luthor. Just my thoughts.

THE OG GL

01-24-2006, 09:00 PM

My prediction is that Kid flash will be in the speed force soo long that it accelerates his aging. When he comes out he will be twentysomething all the powers of the speed force will leave the other speedsters and enter bart. Making him the most powerfull speedster yet.

^dont take me seriouly

SpaceBooger

01-24-2006, 09:15 PM

Oh, OK. Or it could be the simplest thing that takes him down, something he didn't even think to consider because it would be beneath him.
***hmm... makes me think of "war of the worlds"

Amethyst Rose

01-25-2006, 12:08 AM

Actually, I had just reread my Amethyst mini, and remembered how the incredibly-powerful Dark Opal was finally taken down...a dagger in the back from his own "son". So simple he didn't think to guard against it.

Watchman

01-25-2006, 12:23 AM

Qolt QuaZar

01-25-2006, 01:42 AM

Joker makes his big kickass comeback. That's pretty much all I'm waiting for right now.

Word. I'm hoping that The Joker ends up being the big hero of this crossover, simply because he was the one villain that didn't get picked to play ball with the Society.

Guts/Batman

01-25-2006, 07:24 AM

While I wish things were that simple...this is comics we are talking about. I love the medium to death, but I learned to leave my logic cap at the door. In a world where Batman can take on Darkseid hand to hand...I can safely assume the Joker can kill Alexander Luthor. Just my thoughts.

I love the medium as well but I don't like leaving my logic cap at the door. I like a comic book story to make internal sense. That's why I dislike S/B and don't get it.

I hold the same candle to Stephen King or Tolkien than I do to Johns, Winick, Simone, etc.

Guts/Batman

01-25-2006, 07:26 AM

She only looks saggy at times when Jiminez draws her. Everybody else makes her look firm. Of course, Jiminez also made Kal-L look like an elderly Nicolas Cage for one panel in Infinite Crisis #2, so maybe he's just careless or having fun with his art.

This is true...

Rokk

01-25-2006, 10:05 AM

I'm looking forward to what Joker is going to do. He is one extreme wild card in this story. I wouldn't mind seeing Batman lock horns with Slade. In a Superman v. E2 Superman fight, I'd probably be rooting for E2 Superman.

Guts/Batman

01-25-2006, 10:11 AM

In a Superman v. E2 Superman fight, I'd probably be rooting for E2 Superman.

At first I was, now I hope they just beat the living hell out of eachother to knock sense into eachother.

icymatt

01-25-2006, 01:00 PM

I'm also thinking that Alexander Jr. is going down this issue, probably because "someone" close to him feels he wants to go it alone from now on.

DCU and E2 Supes will duke it out, and hopefully the two knuckleheads will figure out the truth soon afterwards.

Watchman

01-25-2006, 01:33 PM

Word. I'm hoping that The Joker ends up being the big hero of this crossover, simply because he was the one villain that didn't get picked to play ball with the Society.

I'm looking forward to what Joker is going to do. He is one extreme wild card in this story.

I think Luthor's arrogance towards the Joker is going to be his eventual downfall.

superlurker

01-26-2006, 11:01 AM

What has he done to deserve getting beat up?

He failed to set a better example for Superboy Prime. Which might just become a plot point; "yeah, well, it was YOUR Superboy that became an amok psycho mass killer and MY Superboy that was the victim." Sort of like how they've already been comparing the Dicks of the two Earths.

Failing to raise Superboy Prime properly should be enough motivation for the real Superman to give the Earth-2 one a solid beating and a grand-standing speech on morality and doing the right thing in spite of personal costs.

Other than that, he wears an ugly mockery of the real Superman costume, and must be punished for that.

... I can't think of another reason right now, but I'm sure there's plenty.

Guts/Batman

01-26-2006, 11:07 AM

Also, he wants his Earth back so badly that he cannot see the lives that he is screwing with. Families will be separated between the two Earths.

Even after his talk with Bruce, he doesn't understand it. He can't understand it.

aeastwic

01-26-2006, 01:32 PM

He failed to set a better example for Superboy Prime. Which might just become a plot point; "yeah, well, it was YOUR Superboy that became an amok psycho mass killer and MY Superboy that was the victim." Sort of like how they've already been comparing the Dicks of the two Earths.

Failing to raise Superboy Prime properly should be enough motivation for the real Superman to give the Earth-2 one a solid beating and a grand-standing speech on morality and doing the right thing in spite of personal costs.

Other than that, he wears an ugly mockery of the real Superman costume, and must be punished for that.

... I can't think of another reason right now, but I'm sure there's plenty.

Well to be fair, he didn't really raise Superboy Prime....he was raised by the Earth Prime Kents and seemed pretty stable until after COIE. I'm guessing that several years in Paradise has warped him.

From what's been written, he seems to have no real world experience with his powers and generally seems like he is in over his head. Luthor seems to be controlling him well. Do you think that Luthor knew that the DCU heroes were going to gang-up on him and was hoping to get rid of him?

That panel after where Superboy blasts off to confront Conner seemed like Luthor had *something* on his mind....

Guts/Batman

01-26-2006, 01:51 PM

From what's been written, he seems to have no real world experience with his powers and generally seems like he is in over his head. Luthor seems to be controlling him well. Do you think that Luthor knew that the DCU heroes were going to gang-up on him and was hoping to get rid of him?

I don't think that Alex was controlling Superboy Prime. Manipulated how he thought through many means but not outright mind control. Kind of like what Luthor did to Billy in Kingdom Come.

He has real world experience with his powers, but it seems this is his first knockdown, drag them out, fight with consequences that he has had.

He did tug planets, afterall.

mohammedali

01-26-2006, 02:17 PM

I think the Joker might be the one that takes down the society and screws up Lex's plans, but I doubt he'll do it for any heroic purpose.

stillanerd

01-26-2006, 02:29 PM

I think Luthor's arrogance towards the Joker is going to be his eventual downfall.

Somehow, I think the Joker going to figure out somehow that Society Luthor is not the real Luthor and use it to his advantage. Basically, I envision the Joker strolling into the Society's headquarters, and after some friendly persuasion (i.e. killing off a few members) basically tells them they're acting like a bunch of saps for following Luthor. "Besides," he says "Who made ol' Curly Joe in charge anyway? I mean look what you've all become? All this power wrapped up in one little neat package and you just bend over, grab your ankles and take whatever's coming. Now I'm not one to tell people how to live, but if I were you guys (and thankfully I'm not), I'd be out there having myself a good 'ol time in big city than sitting around, acting like one of Lexie's groupies. So what do you say kiddies? You wanna have some fun?"

Cue shouts of trimuph from the Society as they literally run over Deathstroke as they charge out into the Streets of Gotham for some "old fashioned violence" a la Clockwork Orange with the Joker watching it take place while sitting back in deck chair, eating popcorn and sipping soda.

Watchman

01-26-2006, 05:44 PM

I think the Joker might be the one that takes down the society and screws up Lex's plans, but I doubt he'll do it for any heroic purpose.
Of course not. It's merely revenge.

Calculator

01-26-2006, 09:19 PM

I love the medium as well but I don't like leaving my logic cap at the door. I like a comic book story to make internal sense. That's why I dislike S/B and don't get it.

I hold the same candle to Stephen King or Tolkien than I do to Johns, Winick, Simone, etc.

If I did that then I wouldn't enjoy comics! :D

And by the way, S/B is one of my guilty pleasures...heh. I mean Batman beating up Darkseid is so bad that it's good.

Guts/Batman

01-27-2006, 09:38 AM

If I did that then I wouldn't enjoy comics! :D

And by the way, S/B is one of my guilty pleasures...heh. I mean Batman beating up Darkseid is so bad that it's good.

S/B makes a good Elseworlds but...in continuity...not so much.

The IC related stuff is weighing heavy on me. Plus, I don't think the Joker can do that, he is going to need some high level help.

Zerofun

01-27-2006, 01:08 PM

While I wish things were that simple...this is comics we are talking about. I love the medium to death, but I learned to leave my logic cap at the door. In a world where Batman can take on Darkseid hand to hand...I can safely assume the Joker can kill Alexander Luthor. Just my thoughts.

When did batman take on darkseid because i want to get that set ... today .. now ... this minitue ... was it sups/bats ?

G'nort

01-27-2006, 01:34 PM

earth 2 superman would clean house versus earth one superman, it would be like the superboy fight with less death.

IC5 hopefully will have our luthor collecting himself to take on alex. In the end, I think it will be him who saves the earth.

Lurker

01-27-2006, 01:44 PM

earth 2 superman would clean house versus earth one superman, it would be like the superboy fight with less death.

According to the latest Wizard in power comparison, E1 Supes mops the floor with ol grey temples.

G'nort

01-27-2006, 01:56 PM

couldnt earth 2 superman move planets like chess peices like superboy?

didnt our superman have trouble with the moon awhile back?

I havent renewed my wizard subscription in a year now, but Im interested how they compared the supermen?

Oggar

01-27-2006, 02:06 PM

Superboy prime will be revealed to have been pushed/controlled whatever by Psycho Pirate.

We'll see a throwdown/"can't you see" fight between Supes 1 and Supes 2.

A possibility that something might happen with a Joker and Pscho Pirate team-up/mind meld/whatever that could throw a monkeywrench into Alexander's plans.

Watchman

01-27-2006, 03:14 PM

A possibility that something might happen with a Joker and Pscho Pirate team-up/mind meld/whatever that could throw a monkeywrench into Alexander's plans.
Why Psycho Pirate? I thought he was working for Alex. What motive would Psycho Pirate have to all of a sudden join up with Joker? Besides, I don't think the Joker wants to team up with anyone from the Society to bring it down. I want to see him doing something by HIMSELF.

PS. Batman #649 sucked ass. I just thought I'd advertise that here.

Calculator

01-27-2006, 06:00 PM

S/B makes a good Elseworlds but...in continuity...not so much.

The IC related stuff is weighing heavy on me. Plus, I don't think the Joker can do that, he is going to need some high level help.

Who do you think is going to take down Alex Luthor, and who would you like it to be?

I think it's gonna be Joker but man oh man, I'd rather see Black Adam do that hand clap thing to scatter the society to the ends of the Earth, lol.

When did batman take on darkseid because i want to get that set ... today .. now ... this minitue ... was it sups/bats ?

It was indeed in the Superman/Batman book. I think the exact issue is #12, this is just a guess, but I know for a fact it was during the new Supergirl intro story that ran from issues 8-13. It was a fun little story, even if the new Supergirl is a blank slate...who should be replaced by Power Girl...but won't...dammit...

trickster

01-28-2006, 02:08 AM

PS. Batman #649 sucked ass. I just thought I'd advertise that here.

As always, when someone on this board says something is bad, I can be sure that it is good. This is no exception.

Bebop & Rocksteady

01-30-2006, 01:17 AM

The Joker

01-30-2006, 01:54 AM

I think Luthor's arrogance towards the Joker is going to be his eventual downfall.

Thats certainly plausible.

As well as satisfying. :D

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 01:55 AM

Who do you think is going to take down Alex Luthor, and who would you like it to be?

I think it's gonna be Joker but man oh man, I'd rather see Black Adam do that hand clap thing to scatter the society to the ends of the Earth, lol.

Well, as of S/B #23 Joker and Mxy were playing "chess." That's the kind of help Joker will need. It's either "Where he has been" or "Where he is going." One or the other.

Essentially with Mxy's help he is effectively omnipitent.

Now...if we only knew where the Hell the arc fits in continuity it would be pretty easy.

I would love to put it Pre-IC because of the interaction between Batman and Superman but...the signs point to it happening after IC #1 at the very least.

Biut what adds to this is that Joker gets captured by Jason in #648. I would guess that he was captured after Jason beat him within an inch of his life in #638.

However, with what happened in Batman #649 (Chemo dropping), it places it between DoV special (Post-IC #3) and IC #4. This is after he soloed the Royal Flush Gang in #1.

My brain just hurts just thinking about it.

I think the Anti-Monitor or Darkseid will be the one who takes him down. I don't want to see the Anti-Monitor do it though. I wanna see Darkseid do it.

And I'm not talking about current pussy ass Darkseid either, I want him to go away...permanantly. I'm talking PC "wipe my ass with Superman", "I mindraped 3 billion Daxamites on my worst day" Darkseid.

I think I would like him to OE everyone on Earth...both Earths. They all deserve to be erased from history.

What I want to see Black Adam do is castrate Doc Light. The fact that he isn't at least castrated yet infuriates me as a reader. It's bad enough he's a freaking plot device who has a whole sett of "WTF?" powers, it also hurts that he gets to use dialogue like he was using in "Into the Light".

What I want out of the Joker is a return to a badass, unpreparable Joker who is a threat to him. Honestly, I don't believe Joker can do a damned thing to Alex without major, major help.

The Joker

01-30-2006, 02:19 AM

I agree that I cant see Joker doing anything as far as physical harm towards Alex, but I can see Joker ruining a plan Alex might have set in motion with the society. Which may in effect, be one of the causes for his downfall. For my money, thats a bit more likely than Joker coming in and taking out AL himself.

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 02:32 AM

I'm crossing my fingers that we can get a Darkseid, Lex Luthor and Joker alliance. I would be a giddy fanboy if I saw that. :D

Joker will ruin a plan of Alex's, no doubt. But not by himself.

G'nort

01-30-2006, 11:48 AM

I really hope that whole joker with myx thing in batman superman was not gonna have anything to do with the current crisis, I was never a fan of joker having superpowers ala "emporer joker".

WolverinesSon

01-30-2006, 12:04 PM

Old man superman is gonna destroy our superman when they get down to it. After he does that, he's gonna get wise to superboy and Luthor and have to take them down too. All I know is that after this, DC is gonna go back to having 2 earths.

In the latest Wizard they size E2 Supes with E1 Supes and E1 Supes is bigger, stronger, faster, younger, and doesn't need a bed pan. So, sorry bout your luck buddy but the ol' guys goin down. One thing he does have over E1 Superman is the years of experience. Maybe he'll use some kind of trick or something but, I doubt it. E1 Superman wont kill the guy because he's too nice and instead they're gonna team up and fix things. What else do you guys expect two Supermen to do??

joint venture

01-30-2006, 12:08 PM

I can see the Joker and Mxy taking some prominent role in one of the issues left, ignoring them would be like ignoring a Super-gramps vs. Superman eminent fight. though I do not think they will be pivotal.

As for Superman, everyone is expecting a big fight. I can assure you it will happen. Against whom? Super-gramps, Wonder Woman, Brother Eye or even Alexander Luthor...there's a long line.

What I really really expect is Bats to kick Luthor's ass. And I mean wits and blood; no doubt The Spectre will try to fix his mess if he regains a conscience before the whole maxi-series ends. But Batman is on the verge of loosing his good side, when he asked Dick if the early years were good, that sounded to me like a goodbye. Luthor outsmarted by the Bat, and afterwards hurt in places he did not know he had in his body...that's priceless.

Possibly won't happen 'cause I haven't seen such a good villain in 20 years.

As for the cosmic disaster, with no head or tail yet, except that it was Superboy who caused the planets ta move outta orbit; I would like to see the New Gods settling this one for good. But who knows...speculations just that.

As for the Superman vs. Superman battle, all I have to say is that the old Supes is going down. Statistically, our Superman is way way way more powerful. Remember the solar battery theory...like in Kingdom Come? Should it apply to our E2 Superman...dont think so.

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 12:18 PM

In the latest Wizard they size E2 Supes with E1 Supes and E1 Supes is bigger, stronger, faster, younger, and doesn't need a bed pan.

Yes, because Wizard magazine is the paragon of...reliable information all of a sudden.

I don't trust a word coming from that periodical power level wise.

I just want to see them beat some sense into eachother.

bfrank

01-30-2006, 12:28 PM

Well, as of S/B #23 Joker and Mxy were playing "chess." That's the kind of help Joker will need. It's either "Where he has been" or "Where he is going." One or the other.

Essentially with Mxy's help he is effectively omnipitent.

Now...if we only knew where the Hell the arc fits in continuity it would be pretty easy.

given that the book was supposed to come out months before IC, I think it's pretty easy to figure out that the story takes place before IC....

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 12:34 PM

given that the book was supposed to come out months before IC, I think it's pretty easy to figure out that the story takes place before IC....

Uh uh, it isn't that easy. I don't like to assume things plus there are a many titles that have come out prior to IC that make no sense in the timeline.

When the books come out (or were supposed to in this case) don't really mean anything though. The content is all that matters.

Also consider that, Lex teleported out in IC #3 and we don't know where he went. We have to know where he went to know where it fits.

bfrank

01-30-2006, 12:40 PM

When the books come out (or were supposed to in this case) don't really mean anything though. The content is all that matters.

Also consider that, Lex teleported out in IC #3 and we don't know where he went. We have to know where he went to know where it fits.

you're talking about two different things....

Lex teleporting out is clearly part of the story in Infinite Crisis....

Superman/Batman is a book that is close to being a year late....It's clear that the current story has taken place before IC....Think about it this way, were it out on time, you wouldn't be asking this question....

also, mxy's a little dead now, you know....

we don't need to be spoon fed everything.....

bfrank

01-30-2006, 12:42 PM

Uh uh, it isn't that easy. I don't like to assume things plus there are a many titles that have come out prior to IC that make no sense in the timeline.

are those books as late as Superman/Batman? you wouldn't be assuming, you'd be thinking, critically...

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 12:49 PM

are those books as late as Superman/Batman? you wouldn't be assuming, you'd be thinking, critically...

Heh. Another reason I don't like B/S.

You're right, they haven't been as late as Supergirl and B/S. But they have arcs (when looking back) that started post-IC, before the IC mini began.

Guts/Batman

01-30-2006, 12:53 PM

you're talking about two different things....

Lex teleporting out is clearly part of the story in Infinite Crisis....

Superman/Batman is a book that is close to being a year late....It's clear that the current story has taken place before IC....Think about it this way, were it out on time, you wouldn't be asking this question....

also, mxy's a little dead now, you know....

we don't need to be spoon fed everything.....

I think we're being prematurely declaring Mxy dead. He dies and comes back to life all the time. He's like Ra's Al Ghul.

You're right we don't need to be spoonfed everything but a little more information would be nice. It's why it is so confusing.

It's not like DC is above surprising us with where stuff fits in the timeline or anything.

And yes, I would be asking the question. Because I'm like that. I like putting the puzzle together.

bfrank

01-30-2006, 01:03 PM

I think we're being prematurely declaring Mxy dead. He dies and comes back to life all the time. He's like Ra's Al Ghul.

You're right we don't need to be spoonfed everything but a little more information would be nice. It's why it is so confusing.

It's not like DC is above surprising us with where stuff fits in the timeline or anything.

And yes, I would be asking the question. Because I'm like that. I like putting the puzzle together.

Let me get this straight: If superman/batman came out ehen it was supposed to (given the delay's on this title from the start, I'm thinkning it should have come out close to a year or two ago), you would be asking where it fit in relation to IC, when it clearly pre-dates IC?

that makes no sense what so ever...

you're confusing yourself.....

WolverinesSon

01-30-2006, 01:27 PM

Yes, because Wizard magazine is the paragon of...reliable information all of a sudden.

I don't trust a word coming from that periodical power level wise.

I just want to see them beat some sense into eachother.

They asked Geoff Johns to size them up actually. So na na ne boo boo to you!

Amethyst Rose

01-30-2006, 02:40 PM

Somehow, I think the Joker going to figure out somehow that Society Luthor is not the real Luthor and use it to his advantage. Basically, I envision the Joker strolling into the Society's headquarters, and after some friendly persuasion (i.e. killing off a few members) basically tells them they're acting like a bunch of saps for following Luthor. "Besides," he says "Who made ol' Curly Joe in charge anyway? I mean look what you've all become? All this power wrapped up in one little neat package and you just bend over, grab your ankles and take whatever's coming. Now I'm not one to tell people how to live, but if I were you guys (and thankfully I'm not), I'd be out there having myself a good 'ol time in big city than sitting around, acting like one of Lexie's groupies. So what do you say kiddies? You wanna have some fun?"

Cue shouts of trimuph from the Society as they literally run over Deathstroke as they charge out into the Streets of Gotham for some "old fashioned violence" a la Clockwork Orange with the Joker watching it take place while sitting back in deck chair, eating popcorn and sipping soda.

I'd LOVE to see that happen!!

Watchman

01-30-2006, 04:36 PM

I'd LOVE to see that happen!!
I don't.

It's a good idea, and it was amusing, but I want to see the Joker do something HIMSELF, rather than convince the rest of the villains otherwise. I want to see him use some brainpower and crazy ideas to achieve something spectacular.

PatrickG

01-30-2006, 05:13 PM

Or what if Lex is about to redeem himself by making some kind of elaborate, heroic strike against Alex... And then the Joker, ticked at the wrong Luthor, offs him?

slayer2005

01-31-2006, 09:04 AM

Speculation:

Somebody's going to die here, as we wait for IC#5 to be released on Mar.1.

PatrickG

01-31-2006, 11:04 AM

Oh.

And SUPERMAN/BATMAN is only three issues or so behind the original schedule because, as often as it's shipped late, almost as many issues shipped early to make up the difference.

stealthwise

01-31-2006, 11:06 AM

I thought that it was February 22nd.

56857

02-09-2006, 02:37 PM

infinite crisis #5 spoilers
Posted: Feb 9, 2006 1:23 PM Reply

Describe the upcoming CLASH OF THE KRYPTONIANS (IC#5) the way it should be.
Posted: Dec 6, 2005 2:33 PM Reply

In the middle of building a structure to rechange the past, the heroes are interrupted by post-crisis superman who starts fighting Alex. GoldenAgeSuperman is not there, he's racing through the time barrier on a special mission towards the center of the universe where the villain is forming. Post Crises Superman's decided Diana and Bruce are right and he's going to use the gold kryptonite which he'd kept from fighting the pocket verse kryptonians on Superboy Prime. It hurts Superboy Prime who screams and falls in pain unto the ground, but doesn't kill him. Superboy Prime rises and yet pc superman with the gold kryptonite beats him down. He starts to smash the machine. Alex screams in pain because he is intuned with the machine, trying to teleport the ancient matters of the old universe through his body used as a conduit, into the giant machine (which stretches throughout the time stream, and is just about endless in size). Alex pleads that he's trying to save Lois. Post-Crises Superman says he's sorry, but no one is worth that. He wont let the whole universe be changed. Superboy Prime tackles him, Post-Crises Superman breaks the too weak hold and punches the weakening Superboy Prime down. He tells him, "You're just an abberation of me. And I have no qualms in killing myown refelection." He lifts up his hand to kill Superboy Prime.

The old, first real Lois screams. Her hearbeat accelerates. It passes in its agony, some how through the depths and endless expanse of the realms of time and space into the current Crises ravaged DCU, and towards GA Superman who is making his way into the center of the universe. He sees it conflicting. He sees the people crying out in fear. And then he hears the heart of Lois calling to him.

And he turns around.

He tears through the time stream with the power that the post-crises supes should have done for years, and makes his way down, down into the nexus. The beginning. The center of the machine where Post-Crises Supey's gold kryptonite filled fist is coming down on the bleeding Superboy Prime and Alex Luthor. And then...they dissapear. Post-crises supes is stunned. "How?" He asks. And then SUPERMAN appears in front of him. "Real super speed, son," He answers. "Real super speed." Then he back hands the post-crises current failure through the air and sends him hurtling back through the time stream and ripping into the current time in the exact spot where Superman had ripped throught the time stream only moments earlier to stop that guy from killing Superboy Prime.

Post-Crises Superman hurtles through the rip in time and through the rift in matter, through space, and goes crashing into a planetoid. It shatters into bits. Gasping, he bends over on his knees in pain and Post-Crises Superman hears a voice say, "You abandoned the covenant given you from Krypton. You compromised your morality." He looks up to see SUPERMAN hovering overhead looking down upon him, his eyes are not flaring red like this current version is too prone to do. But he is angry. That is so very clear. "And having watched you wallow in your stupidity the last thirty years, has given me a disgust you can't even begin to imagine."

Post-Crises Superman leaps up flying towards SUPERMAN going at him at full force, swinging a fist saying, "I'm not like you! I'm not a heartless alien isolated from humanity! I'm just a normal man like every body else, I just happen to have these powers!" He slams his fist as hard as he can into SUPERMAN who stands there and lets the blow hit him as hard in the face and does not flinch. And then he answers, "You're a liar!"

He slams his fist into Post-Crises Superman, sending him spiralling backwards gasping in pain. The thing is this punch causing entire sections of dimensions to shatter and come down as now in a white surrounding that is the existence of nothing, Post-Crises Superman finds himself sprawled upon the ground. Blood runs down his face. He looks at the dimensional matter strewn about him like glass. He sees his face in it.

He hears SUPERMAN's voice. "You called him your reflection!"

And SUPERMAN descends to give the punk a beatin'. "He was there before you were, you sniveling idiot!" Bam. Wham. Slap. Smack!"He knows the meaning of sacrifice! You've forgotten, if you ever did remember. You're my reflection, you selfish ingrate! A dirty, filthy one." He lifts up his hand to give a final punch upon the motionless, bloody body and then he stops. He hears laughter.

And the machine starts up.

GA SUPERMAN gasps, "What have I done?"

He drops the Post-Crises Superman gasping on the ground, and darts off to the Beginning of Creation where the machine is starting, gasping, "No! No! No!" And then it turns on. And a hand comes out of the depths.

Its happening again.

"No! No!"

GA SUPERMAN prepares to attack it and then...it dissapears.

GA SUPERMAN looks at the spot where it had been but moments before and whispers in horror, "He's back."

Suddenly he's struck in the back by a kryptonite ray. Alex Luthor stands over GA SUPERMAN's fallen body. "I'm sorry Superman. He let me live the last time my universe died, forseeing this possibility. He gave me my powers. He's going to bring my world back if I do this for him. You're going to have to go."

And in the center of the universe the Anti-Monitor stands transformed. "Ha!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!"

odlawhtrad

Posts: 79
From: a galaxy far, far away
Registered: 1/8/05

Re: Describe the upcoming CLASH OF THE KRYPTONIANS (IC#5) the way it should be.
Posted: Dec 6, 2005 4:03 PM Reply

simply the best thing i have read in years

its too bad when it happens in #5 that in wont

Kid Kamikaze10

02-09-2006, 02:38 PM

Who knows, it could be even better!

I know, wishful thinking......

ShaggyB

02-13-2006, 05:02 PM

Joker will do something big, otherwise they would not have made it a big deal that he was left out of the society.

Alex stated that joker was too unstable to be brought in, which is why joker kills wild card gang, laughs about and says he'll show them.

Joker will probably walk in at the moment of alex's victory and place a bullet neatly into his brain. So simple yet so easy.

Hell lets use the logic approach Guts/Batman says he likes. Logically, the smallest miscalculation causes the most damage. Satelites crash, rockets explode, and buildings fall due to the smallest mistake. Joker by no means is a huge player because of strength or connection or powers, he is big because of unpredictability. Alex has already made the conclusion that not including him is enough to keep him away. We all know that wont work. Hes writen off by Alex. Hes not important to worry with. So that will be his downfall, its is irony, it is poetic justice and its is logically what will happen. so if you want logic there it is. Joker is the stress fracture that will crack alexs plans because he does not choose to acknowledge the problems' existance.

DoctorDoom

02-13-2006, 08:43 PM

Gingold

02-14-2006, 04:11 PM

why is everyone so distrustful of Wizard Magazine?

Because it has a long history of printing inaccurate information. It's also just a pretty crappy magazine.

Watchman

02-14-2006, 04:16 PM

Buried Alien

02-14-2006, 04:17 PM

Guts/Batman

02-14-2006, 04:18 PM

stillanerd

02-14-2006, 04:53 PM

Exacty...

...This is why I think he will need some cosmic help to do this.

Yes, I think Joker being able to Jokerize Doomsday is one the dumbest things ever.

See, I don't think the Joker is the kind of guy who asks for help; his whole approach is "Work for me, or I'll kill you." As crazy as he is, he knows he's outgunned in terms of raw physical power, but the one thing he does have that's a big advantage over others is that he's a lot more clever than he lets on and knows EXACTLY which persons psychological buttons to push. That's why I imagine that (after killing a few of the lesser villains) he's going to appeal to the Society's arrogance, saying that they're far more powerful than to let somebody like "Lex" Talia, Deathstroke, Calculator, etc be in charge. And while the Society goes on a rebellious rampage, the Joker then sits back and watches the chaos he's created while he waits for "Lex" to show up to take out himself--all because he feels that HE "The Clown Prince of Crime" himself, was slighted by Da' Man, aka Lex Luthor.

Watchman

02-14-2006, 05:10 PM

Re: Joker's role

Many people believe he'll have a decisive role, but what role will this be? What can the Joker do against people who have time-space manipulating powers and the ability to move planets at whim? All the bullets and Smilex gas in the world doesn't add up to much against that.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Who knows WHAT the role will be but the people at DC? We can only speculate. I, for one, am hoping that his role is big, but it might not be so.

As for your argument, manipulating time/space and being able to move planets at whim doesn't take away the fact that the Joker is really frickin' clever. :) And you're probably going to ask, how is the Joker going to outsmart people who can manipulate time? That's a good question. Maybe we'll find out in the upcoming issues.

Also, I'm not sure of the extent of his Smilex. Is it able to effect everyone? I don't see villains like the Calculator and Dr. Psycho being immune to it. Maybe he should just release it into the Society HQ and see what happens. ;)

And by "role", I don't mean he goes against the Society head-on. As crazy as he is, the Joker probably knows that that is suicide. I have no ideas on how he plans to do anything, and for sure no one outside DC knows. All that's been hinted since this series started as that the Joker was excluded from the Society. We have no clues as to his future role.

My stance is that the Joker is definitely going to play a role. His appearance in IC #2 and him figuring out about the rejection just gave way for his role. Add that to the fact that he is probably the most recognized villain in all of comics and having only made one appearance since the "big event" started, he is going to play a part. So like you asked: What part will he play and how big will it be?

mohammedali

02-14-2006, 05:46 PM

Buried Alien

02-14-2006, 06:20 PM

Saying that Jokers lack of shear power compared to Doomsday is a reason for him to not have a big influence in the DCU, is like saying Batmans lack of shear power as Superman means he can't have a big influence in the DCU. Both Batman and Joker are powerful in the DCU because of their psychis rather than their power levels. If Batman can be a massive player in why the crisis occured, then Joker can certainly be a massive player in how it starts to sort itself out.

Mohammed Ali

Whenever there comes a cosmic crisis in the DCU, "street-level" characters such as Batman and the Joker often become helpless and superfluous. Batman's contributions during CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, ZERO HOUR, FINAL NIGHT, OUR WORLDS AT WAR, etc., were necessarily minimal...and at least Batman might *theoretically* be able to contribute in such scenarios due to his brilliant detective mind, his talent for strategy, his ability to lead, his vast technological resources and know-how, and a large network of allies who do have powers on a cosmic scale. The Joker, however, has none of those advantages. His only advantage is his unpredictability, and even that advantage is somewhat diminished by the scope of what he would be up against. The menace in INFINITE CRISIS is not one that the Joker can paralyze with a gunshot, maul with a crowbar, or kill with a pack of dynamite. He doesn't have any real allies per se (not in the sense that Batman does), nor do we know of the Joker being a great strategic mind. If he's going to contribute, he'll need to get his hands on some kind of advantage because his native resources just won't be enough.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Guts/Batman

02-14-2006, 06:22 PM

My thoughts exactly Buried Alien. If Joker does manage to do it on his own, it will break my suspension of disbelief-o-meter.

mohammedali

02-14-2006, 06:58 PM

Whenever there comes a cosmic crisis in the DCU, "street-level" characters such as Batman and the Joker often become helpless and superfluous. Batman's contribution during CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, ZERO HOUR, FINAL NIGHT, OUR WORLDS AT WAR, etc., were necessarily minimal...and at least Batman might *theoretically* be able to contribute in such scenarios due to his brilliant detective mind, his talent for strategy, his ability to lead, his vast technological resources and know-how, and a large network of allies who do have powers on a cosmic scale. The Joker, however, has none of those advantages. His only advantage is his unpredictability, and even that advantage is somewhat diminished by the scope of what he would be up against. The menace in INFINITE CRISIS is not one that the Joker can paralyze with a gunshot, maul with a crowbar, or kill with a pack of dynamite. He doesn't have any real allies per se (not in the sense that Batman does), nor do we know of the Joker being a great strategic mind. If he's going to contribute, he'll need to get his hands on some kind of advantage because his native resources just won't be enough.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
I see what you're saying BA, but I see Joker as a sort of inverted Batman. Instead of a brilliant detective mind he has one that has no logic, his talent is for ruining strategy with chaos, his ability breaks up teams instead of lead. As you can see, he has attributes that are completely opposite to Batmans, but are also what give him the edge on many of his peers. Just like Batman is one of the special 3 in the DCU heros, Joker is one of the untouchable villains in the DCU (actually, that could make an interesting story). However, I do agree, that if it all comes down to Joker ending the crisis on his own, then I'd be unimpressed. That would require too much PIS for even the biggest Joker fan.

Mohammed Ali