Justify Their X-istence

[Rasputin]

Everyone seems to be quite vocal about who they like and why. They are equally vocal about who they hate, but the reasoning tends to be a bit more lacking. So, instead of just ripping a character because "they suck," present a scenario where you would find them to be interesting. If you think Cyclops is written to be too boring or stuffy, how should he change to become a character you would actually enjoy reading.

By the way, keep the "I would kill him/her/them" to yourself - it hasn't been funny the first 12,974,366 times it was done before on other threads.

For me, Gambit is a character that just never did anything for me. I can see cool aspects that would make me like him, but nothing was ever done to make it happen. To me, he is better played as a shady, love 'em or leave 'em type that is kind of biding his time until something better comes along. Not an anti-hero, but one that you aren't quite sure if you can trust him when push comes to shove. He started out that way but changed into one of the X-men stalwarts. I always liked the idea that he really was the traitor that Bishop had come back to stop. The ties to Sinister are cool but never resulted in a good "bad Gambit" story - just a remorseful Gambit who was welcomed back to the fold. Now that
he looks to become one of the horesman
I am hoping he will become a character I like. Making him either a villain or a "available to the highest bidder" type would be perfect.

I am willing to enjoy the character but he just hasn't been written in a way that works for me. Yet.

[Chiasm]

Wolverine

I would revert him back to how he was before he became Marvel's most overexposed cash cow.

Once upon a time in a comic land far far away Wolverine was a beer drinking beserker with a temper. He was great in a fight but many times he plunged headlong into the fight without thinking first. He wasn't the best teammate and he often grated on all those around him. He was cool.

Then he got popular. Suddenly he became this wise old sage who always knows the right thing to say or do (see his comments to Mary Jane in recent Avengers). He always has the best plan for battle and he never goes into beserker rages anymore.

Marvel is taking a minor step in the right direction by cutting down his overexposure. But to make him likeable he needs to go back to what he was when he was created, not what he's become.

Edit - oh yeah. One more thing. Please for the love of god stop making him the ultimate dreamboat to every Marvel floozie there is. He's short, he's hairy, he's foul mouthed, he's got bad hair, he's got a temper, he smokes, he drinks to excess, and he's ugly. So why does every single Marvel chick think he's hot.

[The Lucky One]

Edit - oh yeah. One more thing. Please for the love of god stop making him the ultimate dreamboat to every Marvel floozie there is. He's short, he's hairy, he's foul mouthed, he's got bad hair, he's got a temper, he smokes, he drinks to excess, and he's ugly. So why does every single Marvel chick think he's hot.

Animal magnetism. He's the baddest of the bad boys, and just as in real life, most women think that's hot.

I agree with about half of what you're saying. Personally, I liked him best as the wise old sage because that was character development: he was a snotty little teenager with a temper (as originally envisioned), he was violent and chaotic and just generally an ass... and then he changed. It wasn't easy, it required tremendous willpower out of him and the help of his family every step of the way, but he changed. He genuinely made himself a better person, and he was much happier with the person he'd become.

And then he changed back for no reason, and now he vacillates between the two extremes like a damn ping-pong ball. And that is the problem, not the wize, grizzled veteran personality itself.

-D

[Unkillable Cat]

My choice would have to be...Colossus.

For a comic book character that's been around for 30 years, he has been surprisingly little developed, especially when compared to the other "All New, All Different X-Men".

He starts out as a Russian farmboy who likes to paint. He can also transform into a metallic form that makes him superstrong, supertough and free of such pesky things such as breathing. Right there, from the start, he's defined as a gentle giant. A powerhouse who is not so willing to exert his power, a man with feelings and is not afraid to show them. Yet for a long time, he was an unmissable part of the X-Men "team", because he could handle things that the others could not. He was the strongman.

As the years passed, however, other X-Men joined up who could equal him (or better him) in this role, so there comes a need to develop his character to "keep up" with the times. At first his siblings are brought in. This helps make Colossus more credible as a person, because he openly cares about them. The Rasputin siblings are not the bickering Summers brothers, they care and respect each other. But then someone gets the idea that Colossus needs some "tragedy" in his life.

So his family is literally killed off, and his sole living relative is pretty much a loon, crossing the line between hero and villain like other people cross streets. While yes, this is character development, and it sparked one of the greatest Colossus moments yet (when he abandoned the X-Men and joined with Magneto's Acolytes) it set him off down a path that has been done so many times before in not only comics, but in films. The man who has lost everything he cares for, so he resorts to drastic (and violent) ways to cope with things. The greatest Colossus moment is ruined by some blather about his decision being influence by a head injury (what happened to people having an independent opinion?) and he spends pretty much the entire 90's as a surplus character in the X-books. When Colossus sacrifices himself to cure the Legacy Virus, it was not only him being proper to his character, but wat is also a good way to, simply put, put him to rest. At that point in time he had done his part, served his purpose. For all it's worth, he should have stayed dead.

But no. Somebody gets the grand idea to bring him back from the dead. For what, exactly? Since his resurrection he has not been fleshed out any differentely than before his death. Someone at Marvel obviously thought the same thing I did, so in an attempt to rectify this, a Colossus mini-series* is published that strongly ties him to the most notorious of Russian folk-tales, the one of the Mad Monk Rasputin. Despite the hubbub, this mini-series is easily forgettable, and does nothing for the character.

So now, we're basically stuck with him. It's gonna take a helluva lot to save Colossus from the limbo-like state that his character is in, but it seems to be no-one is willing to take the necessary steps. Which sucks.

* His first, BTW. The only things Colossus has to his name is a 5-issue mini-series and a One-Shot issue from his worst period. Gambit has only been around for half that time, and gotten many times that publicity.

[fishtaco]

I would like Wolverine again if he quit the Avengers and the X-Men, put on his hat and eyepatch, and started running around in Madripoor doing what he does best for at least 3 years. Jubilee would be hanging out with him, too.

I would like Cyclops again if he was dead, killed by Emma Frost.

I would respect Jean Grey if she would permanantly stay dead and let go of the Phoenix.

I would like Emma Frost again if she assassinates Sat-Yr-9 and expelled Viper (but only after the Sat-yr-9/Courtney Ross subplot is finished), becomes the (real) Hellfire Club's White Queen, take students like Hellion, Quill, Wither, and Mercury with her and turn them into her Hellions, and kills Cyclops.

I would start liking Kitty again if she were given an X-Men costume, not a New Mutants costume.

I would like Magneto again if he would get his powers back, find Xavier and work with him on rebuilding Genosha without the Scarlet Witch getting in the way, plus revealing his history with the Shadow King that was first mentioned in Uncanny X-Men 275.

[Neolucifer]

For me, Gambit is a character that just never did anything for me. I can see cool aspects that would make me like him, but nothing was ever done to make it happen. To me, he is better played as a shady, love 'em or leave 'em type that is kind of biding his time until something better comes along. Not an anti-hero, but one that you aren't quite sure if you can trust him when push comes to shove. He started out that way but changed into one of the X-men stalwarts. I always liked the idea that he really was the traitor that Bishop had come back to stop. The ties to Sinister are cool but never resulted in a good "bad Gambit" story - just a remorseful Gambit who was welcomed back to the fold. Now that

I always liked that shady aspect of him as well .. like a wild bird that could never stay in cage . If back someday to being a "good" guy , he'd be interesting again ,as the occasional Guest-star and trouble-maker , not another boring "married" guy that lost his appeal .
Or at least he could have been given the same treatment than Wolverine (even thought not everyone liked that) ... some kind of depth of growth , that would compensate the loss of his mysterious sides (his major appeal) and his playboy antics .

Anyway I'll stop there and talk instead of Iceman . I used to like the funny Bobby . Oh i dont want him back a the silly clown , but at the stage were he started to mature while still being funny . not that jerk he became afterward . To save him i think he should stay away for a while from any women , and be given an occasion to make up with Havok once and for all .

[xakko]

* His first, BTW. The only things Colossus has to his name is a 5-issue mini-series and a One-Shot issue from his worst period. Gambit has only been around for half that time, and gotten many times that publicity.
There was also "God & Country", the collected story from Marvel Comics Presents.

I liked it. But then, I think the character of Colossus is just fine. Anti-heroes like Gambit are the ones that I find dull and annoying.

[Neolucifer]

well i like them , but once you decide to get rid of their cool factor and make them settle , you better think fast and well .

[xgeek52]

all of them need to exist guys...i know this is an alien concept on this thread but there it is...maybe it's because i've been reading them so long...but you hafta remember they are the exitension of the society...so theire heroes...but the writers and the cash cows pick who and what are gonna make them the money...but in the days of old before editorial dictation, everone was important... :cool:

[tangentman]

Gambit was ruined by the (ultimately) fruitless romance with Rogue. Personally, I preferred his relationship with Storm that seemed pretty much dropped and never mentioned again when Rogue came into the picture. The freebooting, mysterious quality that made Gambit so appealing in his earliest stories vanished when he became tied down with Rogue.

My least favorite X-Man is Cable. I hated him when he first appeared because he seemed as if he was written to make the X-Men look incompetent because they weren't shooting up the bad guys with "kewl" big guns while wearing armored shoulder-pads and belt pouches. Particularly burn-worthy was the page in UXM where Cable berates Storm and Cyclops for their "failures". This Marty Stu shows up like the Anti-Athena bursting from Rob Liefeld's brow and takes characters I love to task for not being the Punisher. Fuck off, Cable! LOL

[aderechelsea]

to make Gambit cool:

- i would put him in stories with lots of stealing and running around. "Ocean's Eleven" type of stuff ...
- i would make him the lead character in "Y-the last man" and save the earth population in 1 year.
- i would make him attend Rogue's funeral.

to make Cable interesting:

- i would give him to Casey ... He did it once and i am sure he can do it twice...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I woul like Emma Frost if writers would actually start writing her as Emma Frost again, and not just a 'stand in' Jean Grey.

I would like to them to acknowledge all those years of character development in Generation X, that Grant Morrison neatly swept under the carpet, so that he could tail her to his ends...

Emma Frost isn't all bad, but she always has her own agenda. I find her relationship with Scott to be almost wholy unbelievable. She's not a nice person. She uses people, for as long as they are usefull to her, and may in many ways be working and thinking in the same direction as the X-Men, but certainly shouldn't be fitting like the glove she currently is being made out to be!

The only genuine Emma Frost moment I have seen this past year has been her tormenting of X-23 in New X-Men. I'd like more of that kind of thing.

Writers have given her too much compassion. While she's not a two-dimensional bad girl, she certainly isn't as saintly as the Jean Grey role they penned her into. And I wish they'd set her right again.

[Xany Kaos]

- i would put him in stories with lots of stealing and running around. "Ocean's Eleven" type of stuff ...

Yeah, I think that sums it up. I like Gambit because he's a rogue (no, seriously). Well, that, and because he's a Cajun (I am too), but you can never find a writer who can actually get a grip on the way Cajuns talk (as far as I know, his infamous "cherie" is Parisian French--Cajuns say "Cher" or "Sha"...among other things)
But if Gambit was more about heists that would be cool. If he was the kind of guy who floated into the mansion and the main story every now and again, then left just as things were getting boring (to him), but when everyone else was expecting him to stay around, that would be fine. Sort of a stray dog kinda thing.

Beast--a longtime favorite of mine...I'll admit, I haven't picked up Uncanny in awhile, but I'd really like to see him being the loveable blue furry ape-thing, instead of this mutated cat that he's become. Was that change made just because Marvel found out that anthro-cats have a following online?

Emma--hate her with Scott. I'll admit, I liked her best in her role in Generation X, where she was technically a "good guy" but never tipped her hand to anyone. There was always a tension between her and the students, and between her and Sean. he latter may've been half romantic tension, but I liked that her "co-pilot" never quite trusted her, as opposed to Scott, who fully believes everything she says.

[Chiasm]

I woul like Emma Frost if writers would actually start writing her as Emma Frost again, and not just a 'stand in' Jean Grey.

I would like to them to acknowledge all those years of character development in Generation X, that Grant Morrison neatly swept under the carpet, so that he could tail her to his ends...

Emma Frost isn't all bad, but she always has her own agenda. I find her relationship with Scott to be almost wholy unbelievable. She's not a nice person. She uses people, for as long as they are usefull to her, and may in many ways be working and thinking in the same direction as the X-Men, but certainly shouldn't be fitting like the glove she currently is being made out to be!

The only genuine Emma Frost moment I have seen this past year has been her tormenting of X-23 in New X-Men. I'd like more of that kind of thing.

Writers have given her too much compassion. While she's not a two-dimensional bad girl, she certainly isn't as saintly as the Jean Grey role they penned her into. And I wish they'd set her right again.

I agree with everything you said. Emma as a good guy is very hard to believe. Impossible to believe is that any of the X-men would ever forgive her for the things she did to them. Emma is just a case of bad writing by Morrison (who can be a bit of a perv in his writing) used to justify putting a chick with big boobs in the comics so that a certain segment of the comic community can drool over her.

[Absolut_Fresh]

The only genuine Emma Frost moment I have seen this past year has been her tormenting of X-23 in New X-Men. I'd like more of that kind of thing.

that was CLASSIC Emma...it made all warm and fuzzy inside to see her written as she truly is after being forced into the Jean Grey posistion that has plagued her character for so long. if Marvel wants a Jean Grey character around...why not let JEAN GREY be that character and not destroy another just to fill that posistion.

[LordGorto]

What happened to Iceman? This love-sick, whiney pansy makes me want to never pick up a book with him again. I can only have faith that someone will bring him back to his wise-cracking roots. And while we're at it, have him utilize his mutant powers to their potential.. Remember Age of Apocalypse? And later, when Emma Frost possessed him? That's the kind of power Iceman needs and deserves.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

What happened to Iceman? This love-sick, whiney pansy makes me want to never pick up a book with him again. I can only have faith that someone will bring him back to his wise-cracking roots. And while we're at it, have him utilize his mutant powers to their potential.. Remember Age of Apocalypse? And later, when Emma Frost possessed him? That's the kind of power Iceman needs and deserves.

I know exactly what you mean, there. He really hasn't been himself ever since Operation Zero Tollerance, if I'm perefectly honest. I hope Mike Carey gives him some better development when he takes over X-Men.

Milligan just made him even more WET.

[TinMan]

Stacy-X is the only X-character that I have really hated and she's depowered now, so I'm happy.

Every X-character has had their moments and I do like some more than others, its cool to see them interact and how they deal w/ one another. Stacy-X on the other hand was just crap, a terrible character w/ a stupid power. I mean seriously, who the hell ever thought that a woman w/ the ability to make someone nut in their pants and f*#(%*& people for money would make a good superhero? Prostitution is low, demeaning "career" in itself and really has no place in a comicbook, its a profession better left untouched in superhero comics (vertigo, max and other such titles exempt cause those are the types of issues they address).

[tangentman]

I hate to break the news, TinMan, but prostitutes and sex industry types appeared in mainstream comics long before Stacy X. Black Mamba of Bad Girls, Inc./the Serpent Society was a call girl; Catwoman was a street walker after Batman: Year One; one of DC's original "Secret Six" had worked as a prostitute before becoming a super-spy; Pretty Persuasions of Psionex is a stripper; Gypsy Moth was reimagined as a sex industry worker.

[LoneWolf21]

Plus, Stacy even made a point of mentioning she never did it with her clients, it was all pheremones (and she didn't just induce lust either, she could induce all sorts of reactions using her powers, such as nausia), and did you read the issue where she helps the terminally ill old man?

[k-dub]

after having left the x-fold somewhere around the introduction of nanny and returned the past year (btw can anyone tell me what happend to gateway)
i have both been dissapointed and pleased by character developements
firstly the lack of any developement for collosus is heartbreaking. i saw in this man the potential to become a great leader not just the brawn but the brains as well, definately before havoc, alas not to be, if a writer could work this character i would be very pleased, whedon is not doing it
logan- his wise old man thing is a good thing as he is so freakin old anyway you think he would get with the program eventually, but his cash cow status really is taking him down a notch for me every month that goes by, too bad being a fellow canuck used to endear him to me but now i'm mostly ashamed
storm seems to have fallen to the wayside lately, which is okay because i don't want any of the current x-writers to screw her developement
oops i forgot the intent of this thread ok here goes

logan at the end of this "origins" cash grab sits down with storm,scott, kitty,peter,sam, rachel,betsy,bobby and kurt and explains some huge epiphany that he had about chucks old mission and original vision. he then nominates kitty to lead them. scott declines the invite and goes to stay with a comatose emma (brought on by some big hc fight that whedon probably wrote already in which she sacrifices herself to finally redeem herself). the set up as the x-peace corps and relocate to canada. spend a winter freezing and then move to bermuda.
or something like that i lost my train of thought sorry

[The Sword Is Drawn]

logan at the end of this "origins" cash grab sits down with storm,scott, kitty,peter,sam, rachel,betsy,bobby and kurt and explains some huge epiphany that he had about chucks old mission and original vision. he then nominates kitty to lead them. scott declines the invite and goes to stay with a comatose emma (brought on by some big hc fight that whedon probably wrote already in which she sacrifices herself to finally redeem herself). the set up as the x-peace corps and relocate to canada. spend a winter freezing and then move to bermuda.
or something like that i lost my train of thought sorry

Okay, so your train of thought drifted... But there's actually some good possibilities in that idea.

[k-dub]

thanks
just after being away from the x universe i was coming back thinking maybe a lot of changes had occurred but alas it seems that any and all major changes are open game for "retcon" is that the term (what exactly does it mean) and all of my favourite characters pretty much stayed the same (though rachel seems to have gotten horribly regressed) or worse became pale imitations of former glory. wouldn't it be nice if marvel just went for broke and decided to give long time fans a new line that sticks with continuity and actually ages characters and leaves them dead and moves on regardless with some serious aftereffects that take real time to deal with. hell they could benefit from this in so many ways its not even funny. anyway fanboy wishes, like pintos in a street race, get left behind in the dust (or something to that effect)