Is Superman Careless

[MythicBrawn]

I've been thinking about this and then someone alluded to it in the Batman forum so I thought I would ask the question here. Is Superman careless? He has a multitude of powers and he barely uses them all. If he utilized the bulk of his powers at any one time his battles would be over quickly. For example, let's look at his speed. He takes a lot of hits that he should simply be able to dodge. So, does use of his speed take a conscious effort because it doesn't seem to be a reflex thing.

I think his invulnerability also aids in how he handles things. I guess if I could pretty much take anything that was thrown at me, I would wade in with little regard of the consequences. He is pretty cognizant of his surroundings and civilian casaulties, but how many times has he been caught unawares by an adversary. It iseems he only takes someone seriously when they produce kryptonite or magic. And, even then because of his previous attitude, it doesn't make him as careful as he needs to be.

He is an interesting character but sometimes when reading his comic and especially when watching his cartoon, I think "Man, for all his powers, he sure is careless." I guess this is due to the failing of having a character that is this powerful. You would think being killed once, depowered multiple times, would make a person cognizant of their mortality. Maybe being killed doesn't count since he came back from the dead.

[Agentum]

I think many write him that way, if he was to always perfectly use all his power he would be perfekt.
Hee could fly in hyperspeed and take down almost anyone.

[Robin3]

My thoughts are that Superman is putting most of his concentration on keeping his powers at a restrained level.

As an analogy, a cop carries one or two guns, so they could go around shooting people all the time. However, it wouldn't be a good thing for them to do that. It would erode public trust, it would be far too great a punishment for most crimes, and it would escalate the situation.

Likewise, I think Superman is trying not to harm these soft sacks of flesh around him called humans.

[Mike Smith]

I think Superman doesn't fully use his powers so his comics can go longer than three panels so people will buy them...but maybe that's just me.

[The Batman]

i don't know that careless is the right word as Superman probably very careful not to use more strength than is necessary and hurt or kill people. i think that perhaps Superman isn't as cautious as someone like Batman is, partially because he need not be and partially because he's not nearly as paranoid or one for excessive planning anyway.

[davros42]

In Infinite Crisis #4 we get a glimpse of what a fight with a careless Superman would look like...

And no, Superman is not careless. If he was there'd be a lot more collateral damage and limbless/headless supervillains running around. Not sure that'd be a good thing.

[Pariah128]

Careless definitely isnt the right word, more like cautious. You have to realize superman doesnt like to hurt people, period. Whether youre jimmy olsen or doomsday, deep down he doesnt want to see either dead. Of course superman isnt the only hero with a no killing code, but he takes it a step further than he should sometimes.

For example, I remember reading something a few years ago where superman was fighting a bunch of magical flying demon type creatures. He comments on how since theyre magic they are hurting him, but he still couldnt bring himself to use his full power against them in order to make it stop.

Also, if youre referring to the latest skirmish between SBP and the titans etc. I dont think thats an accurate portrayal of a careless kryptonian, just one thats couldnt control his power

[JulianPerez]

I wouldn't say careless, because Superman has been shown to be INCREDIBLY resourceful when it comes to his powers and their use. Superman is super-intelligent and very experienced, and comes up with all sorts of neat ways to use his powers.

For instance, in one issue where a city was being rained on, Superman stretched his super-stretchable cape to cover over an entire town, shielding all the rain that hits it like a giant tent.

On one occasion, Superman rubbed his hands together to turn the Daily Planet globe into a supermagnet, which he used to capture dozens of charging Metallos.

Superman once used his X-Ray Vision to cause plants to grow better.

Superman hasn't used his Super-Hypnotism to the full extent that one would imagine, however, and there are a variety of reasons why: 1) the presence of Amnesium, which presumably does a much better job of memory wipes and which Superman HAS used on people that learn his secret identity, 2) the fact that the Phantom Zone criminals watch him at all times, and if he uses this power, he would be training them in the use of a potentially terrifying ability, 3) a possible reluctance to interfere with human free will.

[Will.S]

For instance, in one issue where a city was being rained on, Superman stretched his super-stretchable cape to cover over an entire town, shielding all the rain that hits it like a giant tent.
Seems like a bad idea unless the cape was made of kryptonian special properties or something. Usually it just tears.

On one occasion, Superman rubbed his hands together to turn the Daily Planet globe into a supermagnet, which he used to capture dozens of charging Metallos.
How does that make sense in that particular issue?

[JulianPerez]

Seems like a bad idea unless the cape was made of kryptonian special properties or something. Usually it just tears.

Superman's Super-Cape has various special properties. For instance, it is infinitely stretchable and indestructible like all matter from Krypton; Superman once stretched his cape between two lamp-posts and it caught crooks in a speeding truck.

There is also a secret pocket in his Super-Cape where he keeps his Clark Kent disguise and glasses. Luthor discovered this pocket in MIRACLE MONDAY.

How does that make sense in that particular issue?

By rubbing his hands together, he caused the magnetic domains in the Daily Planet globe to align, much like an electromagnet.

[Will.S]

Superman's Super-Cape has various special properties. For instance, it is infinitely stretchable and indestructible like all matter from Krypton; Superman once stretched his cape between two lamp-posts and it caught crooks in a speeding truck.

There is also a secret pocket in his Super-Cape where he keeps his Clark Kent disguise and glasses. Luthor discovered this pocket in MIRACLE MONDAY.
Just wondering but was this pre-crisis or post? I hardly see writers use this anymore outside of wrapping a person in a cape for fire protection maybe.


By rubbing his hands together, he caused the magnetic domains in the Daily Planet globe to align, much like an electromagnet.
I still don't understand how rubbing your hands really hard would cause that effect (unless his forcefield or kryptonian physiology had something to do with it) but then again it's comics so what the hell.

[JulianPerez]

Just wondering but was this pre-crisis or post? I hardly see writers use this anymore outside of wrapping a person in a cape for fire protection maybe.

The use of his cape I mentioned was Pre-Crisis.

Post-Crisis, Superman lost his superintelligence and has been portrayed as very unwise with his powers. For instance, there was a Chuck Austen penned story where he held a beam in a flaming building up to help people escape. Whereas in Pre-Crisis, Superman would have just circled around the building really, really quickly and created a vortex that denies the fire oxygen, taking it out in 4.5 seconds.

Another famous example is Superman confronted by hundreds of pieces of mail, and said "how am I ever going to get through all this mail?" Whereas previously, he would use X-Ray Vision and superspeed to read all the letters without opening them in less than a second.

Perhaps that was what MythicBrawn meant; that Post-Crisis Superman has been a dummy with his powers.

This was not always the case, however.

I still don't understand how rubbing your hands really hard would cause that effect (unless his forcefield or kryptonian physiology had something to do with it) but then again it's comics so what the hell.

Well, if you rotate an electromagnet, it aligns the magnetic domains and creates an electric charge, causing ferrous metal to become magnetic.

One of the greatest things about reading Alan Moore - and Julie Schwartz's comics - is that you can learn a lot of science from them. :)

[Robin3]

Hey Julian,

You made me smile when you reminded us of pre-crisis supe's feats. I remember reading them when I was a kid.They were back issues even then.


Whereas in Pre-Crisis, Superman would have just circled around the building really, really quickly and created a vortex that denies the fire oxygen, taking it out in 4.5 seconds.

The current flash, Wally West, still does this kind of thing.

[JulianPerez]

Hey Julian,

You made me smile when you reminded us of pre-crisis supe's feats. I remember reading them when I was a kid.They were back issues even then.

Thanks!

The current flash, Wally West, still does this kind of thing.

Superman needs to be just as smart about using his powers as Wally is - as he used to be. One of the greatest thrills of Superman, pre-Byrne, is that Superman never seemed to use his powers the same way twice. For instance, he saved a construction site one time from a collapsing building by using his heat vision to melt the iron girders into a puddle - so that it leans, but doesn't topple.

[Parrotheadpress]

I completely agree with most here. Superman isn't careless. I've heard some call Superman boring and completely tame. He has powers that we couldn't even begin to imagine. It's not a matter of being careless, it truly is a matter of being cautious. Superman doesn't want to kill his enemies, even if he could easily. He has respect for human life, even if it's the life of a scumbag or "bad guy." I think it's a matter of great restraint and humility on his part to not just completely demolish his opponent. Careless? Not a chance.

[Yoda]

Post-Crisis, Superman lost his superintelligence and has been portrayed as very unwise with his powers. For instance, there was a Chuck Austen penned story where he held a beam in a flaming building up to help people escape. Whereas in Pre-Crisis, Superman would have just circled around the building really, really quickly and created a vortex that denies the fire oxygen, taking it out in 4.5 seconds.

Well that's not really fair... Chuck Austen makes any character seem like a moron. You can't pin that on Post-Crisis Supes alone.

[JulianPerez]

Well that's not really fair... Chuck Austen makes any character seem like a moron. You can't pin that on Post-Crisis Supes alone.

As much as I agree with the above sentiment (Chuck Austen couldn't write his way out of a paper bag with a chainsaw and an instruction booklet) there have been many occasions reading Byrne's Superman that I find myself saying suggestions for obvious courses of action, when it ought to be the opposite: Superman ought to do things that are truly impressive that we'd never think of, not have us suggest and shout things for him to do.

In one fish-in-a-barrel example, Superman sat there and traded punches like a dummy with Doomsday. Why couldn't he, you know, THROW DOOMSDAY INTO ORBIT? Doomsday can't fly, after all. Or get the Phantom Zone projector and hit the black button? Or rig up a JLA teleport pad and have Doomsday fall on it, setting another one by Mars?

Pre-Crisis Superman would have disposed of this non-threat in five seconds, and that's counting the time it takes to return with Pina Coladas for everybody from Alpha Centauri.

[Calamas]

The only time Superman was careless was during some of the asinine set-ups to Infinitive Crisis. For example, unleashing his heat vision at an opponent to the point where objects in his immediate vicinity start melting--and Superman not noticing that there are bystanders there too. That’s not Superman. Superman is there to protect the people. Period. A careless Superman isn’t Superman.

[MythicBrawn]

When I say careless, I don't mean he is not cautious about those around him. He is extremely careful with the people that he fights and innocent bystanders. I mean careless in his own safety and how quick he could end an altercation. I feel he takes hits that he shouldn't have to take. Sometimes he gets knocked around when a simple dodge and retaliate would have been effective. I guess I'm saying for someone with all that power, he most often is portrayed as using it poorly. I guess if he used it effectively, his stories would be even more boring than they sometimes are.

[Yoda]

I like to think that he would rather talk someone down without having to ever throw a punch, than just go in "guns blazing" and taking people out. He uses the least force necessary. Obvioulsy with people like Doomsday and Brainiac talking to them wouldn't be the smart way to go. I don't think they show him being especially careless when innocent people are around, plus he usually knows he isn't in any danger so there's little harm in trying to talk the baddies out.

[Guts/Batman]

If he utilized the bulk of his powers at any one time his battles would be over quickly.

This is the exactly why his stories last more than 3 panels. The Flash has the same "problem".

[davros42]

Also, if youre referring to the latest skirmish between SBP and the titans etc. I dont think thats an accurate portrayal of a careless kryptonian, just one thats couldnt control his power

Not being able to control yourself/your power is the very definition of carelessness. Especially as a result of your temper.

[Rik Levins]

Post-Crisis, Superman lost his superintelligence and has been portrayed as very unwise with his powers. For instance, there was a Chuck Austen penned story where he held a beam in a flaming building up to help people escape. Whereas in Pre-Crisis, Superman would have just circled around the building really, really quickly and created a vortex that denies the fire oxygen, taking it out in 4.5 seconds.
Well--to be fair, he wouldn't do that if there were people inside, as he'd also be denying THEM oxygen. :o
Of course, after holding up the beam and helping them get out, there'd be no reason not to follow up by putting out the blaze as you suggested.

I agree that Superman's loss of super-intelligence is one of the things that annoy me about Post-Crisis Supes (along with Luthor's becoming a Kingpin knockoff instead of a scientist...but I digress).
I mean, even if you DON'T have super-intelligence as an actual power (and you SHOULD...), hey, this guy is the son of the most brilliant scientist on a planet centuries more advanced than Earth. He should be the smartest guy in the room no matter HOW you slice it.

I suppose if they were going to dumb Superman down, they'd pretty much have to do the same to Lex. Present-day Superman would get his ass handed to him by Pre-Crisis Luthor.

[Guts/Batman]

Present-day Superman would get his ass handed to him by Pre-Crisis Luthor.

Definitely. I loved the tech wizardry of being able to create a vortx out of an orange juice container.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

As much as I agree with the above sentiment (Chuck Austen couldn't write his way out of a paper bag with a chainsaw and an instruction booklet) there have been many occasions reading Byrne's Superman that I find myself saying suggestions for obvious courses of action, when it ought to be the opposite: Superman ought to do things that are truly impressive that we'd never think of, not have us suggest and shout things for him to do.

In one fish-in-a-barrel example, Superman sat there and traded punches like a dummy with Doomsday. Why couldn't he, you know, THROW DOOMSDAY INTO ORBIT? Doomsday can't fly, after all. Or get the Phantom Zone projector and hit the black button? Or rig up a JLA teleport pad and have Doomsday fall on it, setting another one by Mars?

Heh. I tend to agree. I think this is the main reason Superman was depowered and his Super-intellect was taken away: so the writers could have it their way when writing their stories.

Superman is, by definition, a goddamn god, who can crush planets with his bare hands and ignite suns with his heat vision. A guy who can determine in an instant every possible outcome of any given situation.

However, and thankfully, this is seemingly being solved. but progressively. We've already seen Post-Crisis Supes with great feats of intelligence, and his strength seems to be going back to the planet-crushing, black-hole-kicking range.

Pre-Crisis Superman would have disposed of this non-threat in five seconds, and that's counting the time it takes to return with Pina Coladas for everybody from Alpha Centauri.

*ROTFL*

Good one.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well--to be fair, he wouldn't do that if there were people inside, as he'd also be denying THEM oxygen. :o
Of course, after holding up the beam and helping them get out, there'd be no reason not to follow up by putting out the blaze as you suggested.

I agree that Superman's loss of super-intelligence is one of the things that annoy me about Post-Crisis Supes (along with Luthor's becoming a Kingpin knockoff instead of a scientist...but I digress).
I mean, even if you DON'T have super-intelligence as an actual power (and you SHOULD...), hey, this guy is the son of the most brilliant scientist on a planet centuries more advanced than Earth. He should be the smartest guy in the room no matter HOW you slice it.

I suppose if they were going to dumb Superman down, they'd pretty much have to do the same to Lex. Present-day Superman would get his ass handed to him by Pre-Crisis Luthor.

I concur. It's something quite obvious. But noooooo...

It has to be Bat-god...

[Apathy Boy]

I like to think that he would rather talk someone down without having to ever throw a punch, than just go in "guns blazing" and taking people out. He uses the least force necessary. Obvioulsy with people like Doomsday and Brainiac talking to them wouldn't be the smart way to go. I don't think they show him being especially careless when innocent people are around, plus he usually knows he isn't in any danger so there's little harm in trying to talk the baddies out.Exactly. Superman's all about avoiding collateral damage. Sure, he could end many fights in milliseconds, but how much damage would the surrounding environment take from the resulting sonic booms? Sure, he could avoid bullets rather than letting them bounce off his chest, but what if one of those bullets hit some bystander? Superman would rather take the punishment than risk letting someone else suffer.

One of my favourite Superman quotes, from JLA: SUPERPOWER: "Every time I throw a punch in the name of peace, I feel like I failed."

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Exactly. Superman's all about avoiding collateral damage. Sure, he could end many fights in milliseconds, but how much damage would the surrounding environment take from the resulting sonic booms? Sure, he could avoid bullets rather than letting them bounce off his chest, but what if one of those bullets hit some bystander? Superman would rather take the punishment than risk letting someone else suffer.

Agreed.

One of my favourite Superman quotes, from JLA: SUPERPOWER: "Every time I throw a punch in the name of peace, I feel like I failed."

WOW. Is that available in TPB?

[jaguarshark]

As this is slowly turning into a Pre/Post-Crisis power level debate, I wanna throw my two cents in and say that, in a world populated with metahumans, Supes should have god-like power, just so he can stand out from the pack as much as anything. But, as much as I love the stories that depict an almighty Superman, I often think it would be more interesting (and much easier on continuity) for Superman stories to take place in a world where he is the ONLY superhero, ala the Golden Age and early Silver Age stories where he seemed to be written as such. If that were the case, I wouldn't have a problem with a significantly de-powered Superman. (Of course, Grant Morrison proves me totally wrong about this with All-Star Superman.)
As far as whether or not Superman is careless... well, yeah, sure. Sometimes. Because where else would the stories come from? It really depends how you define careless, though. I mean, everybody talks about how super-intelligent the Pre-Crisis Supes was (and he WAS super-intelligent), but he made mistakes occasionally too. If you're talking about endangering human life, then no, Supes would go out of his way to avoid that. But if you're just talking about whether or not he never makes mistakes, or always uses his powers to his full potential, then I don't see why he can't be "careless" sometimes.

[Guts/Batman]

Courtesy of Stretch Dude finding Pre-Crisis Superman beauty.

"Hi, Supergirl!" (http://www.superdickery.com/dick/174.html)

There are so many "WTF?" moment in PC Superman comics it's just insane but it's so awesome.

DC really needs to reprint old school Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane comics. I would be so on it.

[jaguarshark]

Originally posted by Guts/Batman
DC really needs to reprint old school Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane comics. I would be so on it.
I'm pretty sure they are in the Superman Family Showcases, although I think the first one is mainly focusing on Jimmy Olsen.

[Guts/Batman]

Those are still funny as hell, too. As long as I getta see that hate helmet or Jimmy's pope hat, I'm on it.

[SuperManny]

WOW. Is that available in TPB?

MasterofPuppets....you asked the same question like a month or so ago ;)

The reason why I'm pointing it out is because I answered it, highly suggesting you pick that story (one-shot by John Arcudi) up!

:D

[666MasterOfPuppets]

MasterofPuppets....you asked the same question like a month or so ago ;)

Damn my bad memory, then. However, thanks for reminding me. ;)

The reason why I'm pointing it out is because I answered it, highly suggesting you pick that story (one-shot by John Arcudi) up!

:D

Okay, let me write that down...