Is Shuma-Gorath an Elder God?

[DDM]

Is Shuma-Gorath considered an Elder God similar to Set, Chthon, & the others? Or is Shuma-Gorath an extra-dimensional demon from another place who seeks to conquer the Earth dimension?

[Expletive Deleted]

If we're going by the old school OHOTMU definitions, I think it's the latter.

[Dizzy D]

Extra-dimensional. He travelled to Earth from another dimension and was banished back there by Sise-Neg. No mention of Gaia, Cthon or Seth in any of his appearances. (In fact he is originally not even a Marvel character, but a Conan god/demon, mentioned in one of Howard's stories.)

[DDM]

Extra-dimensional. He travelled to Earth from another dimension and was banished back there by Sise-Neg. No mention of Gaia, Cthon or Seth in any of his appearances. (In fact he is originally not even a Marvel character, but a Conan god/demon, mentioned in one of Howard's stories.)

Shuma-Gorath fought Doctor Strange twice. The first time was in Marvel Premiere & Doctor Strange (second series) which resulted in the Ancient One's death. The second time Shuma-Gorath fought Dr. Strange, Gorath again seeks to enter Earth's dimension, but Strange prevents him by using chaos magic & turns into Shuma-Gorath before Strange kills himself in Strange Tales #1-17. Strange's soul is purfied then returns back to life.

[twilight]

Shuma-Gorath fought Doctor Strange twice. The first time was in Marvel Premiere & Doctor Strange (second series) which resulted in the Ancient One's death. The second time Shuma-Gorath fought Dr. Strange, Gorath again seeks to enter Earth's dimension, but Strange prevents him by using chaos magic & turns into Shuma-Gorath before Strange kills himself in Strange Tales #1-17. Strange's soul is purfied then returns back to life.

Excuse me DDM but what does that have to do with what Dizzy said?

He gave an answer to your question and you reply with a completely unrelated fact.

[Beast]

Excuse me DDM but what does that have to do with what Dizzy said?

He gave an answer to your question and you reply with a completely unrelated fact.
He likes to toss out unrelated facts, just to show off.... I guess. :rolleyes:

[Will.S]

It's DDM's way of messing with your head.

All joking aside, I think he was going with a rhetorical question since there's just no way he wouldn't know that.

[DDM]

Excuse me DDM but what does that have to do with what Dizzy said?

He gave an answer to your question and you reply with a completely unrelated fact.

The fact Shuma-Gorath showed up twice in Dr. Strange in the modern era. Conan was during the Hyborean era when Marvel owned the Conan character (Dark Horse has the rights to the character now).

[DDM]

It's DDM's way of messing with your head.

All joking aside, I think he was going with a rhetorical question since there's just no way he wouldn't know that.

No, I'm asking a straight question. An Elder God is an Earth demon (powerful demons whose powers usually a beyond comprehension for any mere mortal or lesser demons such as Mephisto, Satannish, or Zarathos). The N'Gari, for instance, are demons from another separate dimension not native of the Earth dimension, but they too wish to conquer the Earth dimension for themselves, usually through servants such as Kulan Gath.

Shuma-Gorath could be an Elder God or an other dimensional demon. He is never mentioned with Chthon, Set, or Gaia, but that does not mean Shuma-Gorath is not an Elder God.

[Flight]

How am I supposed to know :confused: Stop looking at me.

[Will.S]

I guess he would seem to be more of an extradimensional demon then but they haven't really been too revealing about his exact origin.

I'd like to see more of him in the future that's for sure.

[DDM]

I also mentioned the Dr. Strange reference because very few Conan villains come into modern day stories. Selene, the Black Queen, has been linked to Kulan Gath, but Gath himself made only three modern era appearances in Marvel Team-Up, Uncanny X-Men, & The Avengers. Shuma-Gorath fought Dr. Strange, but also fought Conan.

Is Shuma-Gorath an Elder God or extra-dimensional demon?

[DDM]

I guess he would seem to be more of an extradimensional Demon then but they haven't really been too revealing about his exact origin.

I'd like to see more of him in the future that's for sure.

But Chthon & Set went into separate dimensions when Gaia's son, Atum, destroyed the other Elder Gods. Like Shuma-Gorath, Set & Chthon have tried & failed to re-enter Earth's dimension.

Just because a demon is trying to re-enter Earth's dimension does not make him an extra-dimensional demon.

[Dizzy D]

Shuma-Gorath could be an Elder God or an other dimensional demon. He is never mentioned with Chthon, Set, or Gaia, but that does not mean Shuma-Gorath is not an Elder God.

He's not an Elder God: all Elder Gods except for Gaia, Cthon and Set were destroyed by the Demigorge million of years before the birth of humankind. We know it was before the birth of humanity, because from his hidden dimension Seth tried to promote the birth of the reptile intelligent races, but Gaia chose for mammals and promoted them: so Set was banished already at this time before humanity even existed.
When we see Shuma-Gorath in the prehistoric times, he's feeding upon humans and is banished by Sise-Neg: so he's no Elder God otherwise he would have been driven from Earth before that or killed by Demogorgon (no, he can't have defeated Demogorgon, because then Atum would either be dead or never have gone to rest because his task was finished.. and Atum came back when Set entered the world again, so he was still watching out for any Elder Gods that escaped him)

In fact Shuma-Gorath shows no tie to the Earth at all (he's even capable of destroying it with ease from his home dimension as seen with ), while all Elder Gods were born on Earth and destruction of Earth/Gaia is beyond their power.

So he's more powerful than the Elder Gods, arrived on Earth millions of years after they left, never mentioned by Gaia, Set or Cthohn as one of their equals (while they do mention each other often enough and compete with each other. No competition with Shuma-Gorath), claimed another dimension as his home, also none of the Elder Gods has Shuma-Goraths ability to become the person who killed him.

Edit: In fact the Marvel Universe original Handbook even uses Shuma-Gorath as THE example of a Type 3 demon.

[DDM]

He's not an Elder God: all Elder Gods except for Gaia, Cthon and Set were destroyed by the Demigorge million of years before the birth of humankind. We know it was before the birth of humanity, because from his hidden dimension Seth tried to promote the birth of the reptile intelligent races, but Gaia chose for mammals and promoted them: so Set was banished already at this time before humanity even existed.
When we see Shuma-Gorath in the prehistoric times, he's feeding upon humans and is banished by Sise-Neg: so he's no Elder God otherwise he would have been driven from Earth before that or killed by Demogorgon (no, he can't have defeated Demogorgon, because then Atum would either be dead or never have gone to rest because his task was finished.. and Atum came back when Set entered the world again, so he was still watching out for any Elder Gods that escaped him)

In fact Shuma-Gorath shows no tie to the Earth at all (he's even capable of destroying it with ease from his home dimension as seen with ), while all Elder Gods were born on Earth and destruction of Earth/Gaia is beyond their power.

So he's more powerful than the Elder Gods, arrived on Earth millions of years after they left, never mentioned by Gaia, Set or Cthohn as one of their equals (while they do mention each other often enough and compete with each other. No competition with Shuma-Gorath), claimed another dimension as his home, also none of the Elder Gods has Shuma-Goraths ability to become the person who killed him.

Edit: In fact the Marvel Universe original Handbook even uses Shuma-Gorath as THE example of a Type 3 demon.


Shuma-Gorath is just an all powerful other dimensional demon then...

Didn't Shuma-Gorath claim to be the Sorcerer Supreme of his home dimension?

[Dizzy D]

Shuma-Gorath is just an all powerful other dimensional demon then...

Didn't Shuma-Gorath claim to be the Sorcerer Supreme of his home dimension?

I know the Sorceror Supreme origin was used in the computer game, but I haven't seen it in the actual comics.

[Will.S]

Does Marvel still own the rights to Shuma to use him again as well as the Conan issues that he appeared in? I know DH owns the Conan rights now so I was also wondering if the 616 Conan is canon and can be referenced.

I also think he would be a great villain for an epic event (such as Annihilation) since we haven't seen him in a long ass time aside from being in the MVC2 game where I first saw him.

[Neolucifer]

I'd like to see Black heart again as well ... (and even less related i'd like to see mephisto again .. sigh)
Marvel need to start using again its demons .. one of our latest fix , was the god awful draco arc from austen's xmen .

[Will.S]

I'd like to see Black heart again as well ... (and even less related i'd like to see mephisto again .. sigh)
Marvel need to start using again its demons .. one of our latest fix , was the god awful draco arc from austen's xmen .
Hell yeah, the last thing that I really enjoyed Black Heart in was in that Wolverine/Ghost Rider/Punisher one shot. Aside from GR, they were woefully outclassed.

[Alan2099]

Here's pretty much all the info you can get on the guy.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/shumagorath.htm

[Colossus big-c]

Here is shuma gorath in a recent picture of the elder gods

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1546651-monsters.jpg

i see Set, Chthon, Crom, nightmare and shuma

they are elder gods

[Rheged]

Does Marvel still own the rights to Shuma to use him again as well as the Conan issues that he appeared in? I know DH owns the Conan rights now so I was also wondering if the 616 Conan is canon and can be referenced.

I also think he would be a great villain for an epic event (such as Annihilation) since we haven't seen him in a long ass time aside from being in the MVC2 game where I first saw him.

Shuma Gorath appeared in a cameo of sorts as one of the Many Angled Ones in the Thanos Imperative, I believe. He's also showing up here.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/68594/1552620-invadersnow_0004a_large.jpg (http://www.comicvine.com/invadersnow_0004a/105-1552620/)

According to that Marvel Universe Appendix article, Shuma Gorath was a name mentioned in a REH story, but Englehart and Brunner actually created the character. He's called the leader of the Old Ones, which would tie him to Lovecraft, and perhaps mean The Many Angled Ones = The Old Ones. I always thought of Shuma Gorath as an elder god, not realizing the distinction between Elder and elder.

[K Von Doom]

Here is shuma gorath in a recent picture of the elder gods

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1546651-monsters.jpg

i see Set, Chthon, Crom, nightmare and shuma

they are elder gods

Isn't that from one of the Alex Ross X series where Machine Man or someone was talking about mystical beings in general; not really restricted to elder gods though. The person behind Shuma looks like either Zeus or Watoomb; neither of whom are elder gods.

IMHO Shuma is more akin to the likes of Cytorrak and Agamotto. Not an elder god but a mystical being that came from another dimension.

[Aguja]

I've always viewed him as an extra dimensional entity. He looks nothing like Earth's Elder gods. On appearance alone he looks so alien. Plus no where in his history does he have any ties to the Earth in some way like the remaining Elder Gods other than trying to take it over and feeding on it's inhabitants.

I really am surprised he isn't used more. He has a fantastic visual and is just such an intriguing character. Although I suppose given how powerful he is he'd have to only be used in a major event involving a lot of characters. I was always surprised he wasn't used as a boss in the MvC. I do hope to see more of him in the future. It would be nice to see more of his origin, like exactly where he came from and how old he really is.

[savagedoctor]

I really am surprised he isn't used more. He has a fantastic visual and is just such an intriguing character. Although I suppose given how powerful he is he'd have to only be used in a major event involving a lot of characters. I was always surprised he wasn't used as a boss in the MvC. I do hope to see more of him in the future. It would be nice to see more of his origin, like exactly where he came from and how old he really is.

He was an awesome antagonist in Gillis' strange tales. he appeared more like a gigantic mountain with a giant eye and huge rocklike tentacles, and really the way doc strange takes him down was badass. there was stuff about gillis' overall run on doc strange (which started in doc strange, continued into strange tales, then resumed in new doc strange) that was both good and bad, but the strange tales overall was a really cool, thoughtprovoking series, and one of my fave doc strange runs ever. Kaluu was the coolest character mentoring doc, and his companions enitharmon and rintrah and topaz were pretty cool too.

[Aguja]

Well Strange has ties to the New Avengers now so maybe he'll pop up there since Stephen is his usual nemesis. He is weakened when he enters Earth isn't he as compared to when he's in one of the dimensions he controls? That could allow the other Avengers to at least put up more of a fight.

[Stuck-in-the-Burg]

Here is shuma gorath in a recent picture of the elder gods

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1546651-monsters.jpg

i see Set, Chthon, Crom, nightmare and shuma

they are elder gods


That's D'spayre on the upper left and Dweller-in-Darkness on the lower right. Those two plus Nightmare were Fear Lords. So I'm guessing it's a random grouping that happens to include several Elder Gods.

Marvel owns Conan characters they created that weren't based on Robert E. Howard's original stories. So they own Kulan Gath for example. It's pretty much the same case as Micronauts, Godzilla, Rom, and Doc Savage.