Superman 225 (SPOILERS) - A "final" issue sort of..(also last ADV of Supes SPOILERS)

[jwd]

I didn't think about it before but this is the final issue to star the Post Crisis Kal-El of this series. Next month stars Kal-L of E2 and then this title gets cancelled and Adventures of Superman reverts to its original title.

So anyway my thoughts on the issue - After reading the preview info for this does anyone else feel they read the wrong book.

With the full weight of the Crisis events on his shoulders, the Man of Steel undergoes a drastic change

Did anyone notice a drastic change? He reacted to a fire and he talked about how he should do more yet I didn't really see him doing more than he has in the past.

as he wages an all-out war in Metropolis!

The battle was out west? He didn't even fight in Metropolis.

The thing that bugged me the most though is the same thing with his last battle with Ruin. For most of the issue it looks like he's getting knocked down and he's just taking it then he basically says "Enough" . He gets up and defeats them easily. I just think "Well why didn't he do that in the first place?" instead of standing there the entire issue.

I'd either like to see someone that's an actual threat against him or more focus on the character rather than his ablitity to just stand there and entire issue and get attacked without putting any effort into stopping them until the end.

Yeah I realize if he defeated him it might make a short issue but how about some Clark and Lois subplots or more on a Jimmy or Perry one? How about giving us a little more on what John Henry was up to or brief look into what Lex might be doing since they did say it was an IC crossover instead of multiple pages of Superman getting knocked around by flames?

Oh well. I am looking forward to the Kal-L story and am curious to see what happens with the 8 part story.

[glennsim]

Between requiring the writers to provide promo info months ahead of time (before they've actually written the stories, in some cases), and trying to keep stuff about the post-Infinite Crisis situation a secret, it's no wonder mistakes creep into the descriptions.

[jwd]

Between requiring the writers to provide promo info months ahead of time (before they've actually written the stories, in some cases), and trying to keep stuff about the post-Infinite Crisis situation a secret, it's no wonder mistakes creep into the descriptions.

Even if the preview was wrong the issue was still disappointing. Batman made his comments about not inspiring anyone back in IC #1. Nearly 3 months ago. He has 3 titles a month plus appearing in other titles as well and he still doesn't seem anymore inspiring. He reacts to things but isn't being proactive and looking for a solution. There's still 200,000 plus OMACS floating around. Why isn't he flying up and trying to diable some or shed the skeleton off people? There's obviously the Society out there so why isn't he hunting for them? How about talking with Conner and trying to get him off his butt? I'm ready for him to be "inspiring" again.

[SuperSince92]

All this issue seemed like was the author disagreeing with Geoff John's assertion via Batman in Infinite Crisis #1. The issue stunk in my opinion as it just seemed like Verehidan was trying too hard saying, "Look? See! Superman IS inspiring people!"

It's a shame because this book is beautifully drawn. I just feel as if this wasn't really planned and Verehidan just used this issue as his own defiant protest. I mean how stupid was is that two random people jumped in their car to save the day? Gay.

[jerrymcl89]

I think the point (which I suspect both Verehidan and Johns agree on, actually) is that despite the fact that Superman has rather lost his focus of late, and that there is some merit to Batman's criticism, he still does, indeed, inspire people. Thus not only the people who go into the fire, but Supergirl and John Henry as well. I'm sure Superman has to go through a lot more in IC, but I think that this is supposed to start him heading back in the right direction.

[Mainline]

All this issue seemed like was the author disagreeing with Geoff John's assertion via Batman in Infinite Crisis #1. The issue stunk in my opinion as it just seemed like Verehidan was trying too hard saying, "Look? See! Superman IS inspiring people!"

Have you read IC#3? Do you think there's some sort of editorial mandate on Superman to not inspire? Or more likely the possibility that Batman is unfailable and his words to be taken as gospel? Johns has our Superman inspiring members of the Shadow Pact in IC#3 when repairing the skyscraper.

Batman's comments lack reality to anyone reading Superman both during the period Batman mentions and after particularly taken as an absolute (as it was said). Only as a sentiment does it have any weight and if that's the case, it useless as a point of criticism.

As for the other criticisms, they don't really apply to a book entering cancellation or even the character's whole line of books, particularly when they're a focal character of an event book. The writers are careful not to tread on each other's toes or steal each other's thunder. Look at Wonder Woman... a horrible and impactless rehash of IC#3 (alternatively you could look at IC#3 as wasted pages summarizing WW#224).

Johns, when on Flash, was one of the rare writers who could elegantly tie in a book to an event in a genuine fashion without stealing thunder and only adding depth... but to be fair, Flash was rarely front-and-center during the event books. Not so with Superman or Batman (about whom the same criticisms of passivity/irrelevance could be levelled against).

For a filler issue, I thought it was of pretty good quality.

[jwd]

Sure things like Shadowpact amazed at him in IC#3 and Steel and Supergirl's recent comments might seem like he's still inspiring to some but its not enough...

He knows about the OMAC threat. He's done nothing about them.

He knows the JLA has become fractured yet he hasn't tried to help there.

He's aware Luthor is still out there and various villains have been gathering but there's no effort to hunt them down.

Obviously if he gives the reason WW killed Max Lord people will probably freakout (out of control Superman) but he should make some kind of statement. I mean he's Superman. Most people would listen to him. Instead he's just letting things boil up.

Back right before he died he relentlessly pursued Doomsday to stop him. He didn't back down from it. He kept going. That's what he needs to be doing now.

[Mainline]

Except Doomsday was a self-contained event and Infinite Crisis is not. I went over this. Actually Superman's not doing bad for relevancy compared to Batman. The Batman books are in their own pocket universe right now... that's one extreme. Wonder Woman rehashed the events of IC#3... that's the other. Neither is pretty. What he had here is taking a great line and expanding it into an okay filler story until the event book pick up the tale again.

[jwd]

Except Doomsday was a self-contained event and Infinite Crisis is not. I went over this. Actually Superman's not doing bad for relevancy compared to Batman. The Batman books are in their own pocket universe right now... that's one extreme. Wonder Woman rehashed the events of IC#3... that's the other. Neither is pretty. What he had here is taking a great line and expanding it into an okay filler story until the event book pick up the tale again.

Self-contained or not Superman reacted differently. He spent several issues trying to stop Doomsday. He didn't ponder or set and talk with him about it. He tried to stop him. In the Ruin issue he tries to fight him with very little success throughout the issue then all of a sudden he defeats them in the end very easily it seems. Same with those 4 villains. It felt like he just set there and took it the entire time and then said "enough" and beat them easily.

The IC tie-in was also very loosely connected. The Supergirl and Steel parts served no purpose to the story and the only other connection was the brief Batman comment (which would've been nice if they threw in a editorial note of when it occurred for readers that might not have read IC) and the Max Lord situation. It wasn't anything neccessary for the main IC story. So if I was just reading IC and only bought this as a tie-in issue I'd be disappointed.

[stealthwise]

Wow, if they twiddled their thumbs more in this issue, they would have fallen off.

I picked up the last issue, which was ok, but not too impressive, and then grabbed this one in hopes that we would see something more happen than simply waiting for Infinite Crisis to change the status quo.

I'm going to be avoiding DCU titles except for Green Lantern (which appears to be unaffected for the time being) until IC is over.

[Calamas]

I guess I’ll have to stand alone as the only person who liked this issue. Nothing great, I’ll concede, but still entertaining. I can see the point of those who see this as more Crisis-related treading water. Still, not every story has to advance your characters. There’s nothing wrong with a simple superhero adventure. Nor do I see this as Verheiden disputing Geoff Johns and his Infinitive Crisis declaration: “The last time you really inspired anyone was when you were dead.” That was Batman speaking, not Johns. Hell, in Morrison’s JLA, all Superman did was inspire. This story was to reaffirm that he still did.

Not that #225 didn’t have its faults. Verheiden got heavy-handed reiterating his point at the end. And Heat Wave had no business being there, Society member or not. He couldn’t singe Superman’s hair let alone do any real damage. But overall, it was good for what it was intended to be.

So I’ll have to stand alone. Not the first time.

[SuperSince92]

I have ready IC #3 and that was a perfect example of what Supes should be doing and what Superman #225 could have been about. Again, I just think Verehidan was trying too hard in this issue and it came across as corny.

I have been an avid reader of all the Superman books and I have to agree with Batman's assertion 100%. Superman doubts himself WAY too much and almost always bows to Lois's crap. Think for yourself and be a damn man! You're Superman for crying out loud. ACT like it.

[Guts/Batman]

It wasn't a great issue. It was good but not overly good. However, I disagree with what Batman said in Infinite Crisis #1 100%. Batman doesn't know a damned thing about inspiring anything.

But good golly molly, the art alone is worth $2.50. :D

On another note, I woulda had a spoiler thread for this issue up like normal but the damned network on this computer screwed up.

[Guts/Batman]

I'm going to be avoiding DCU titles except for Green Lantern (which appears to be unaffected for the time being) until IC is over.

I'm very close to going this direction.

The only books that I enjoy for the reason DC wants me to are Action, 7 Soldiers and non-IC related books. The rest are tractor pulls on the brain.

[jwd]

I disagree with what Batman said in Infinite Crisis #1 100%. Batman doesn't know a damned thing about inspiring anything.

Batman isn't suppose to inspire people. He's suppose to scare the crap out of them. :D

I think the line in IC #1 was Batman's (very rude) way of telling Superman to stop being so self-doubting and to be more proactive.

It also might of been a hint for the readers that was saying "Hey. We plan to write more stories where Superman is potrayed as inspirational.

[Guts/Batman]

Batman isn't suppose to inspire people. He's suppose to scare the crap out of them. :D

That's true for recent Batman.

But if Batman is done right he is both intimidating and inspiring at the same time.

[IamtheRock3]

That's true for recent Batman.

But if Batman is done right he is both intimidating and inspiring at the same time.


Even Pre Dick Batman..inspiring people wasnt as much his thing as Say Superman and Captain America

Batman admited it..it was kind of tough love..basicly said it "wont be Batman that people will look toward to when this ends..it going to be Superman so he best start bringing his A game"


I like Batman...like the whole Best Human thing..but all ways though when it comes to inspiration Superman no 1..thats his Job. That what he do

But he hasnt been doing it as much lately

Just like Batman is Human perfection and and strong mental mind- he hasnt been doing Job lately

It WW Job to be a good diplomat and bring peace and morals. She hasnt been doing her Job

They each have a unique Job to do and they havent been doing it.

It be like Superman asking Batman to do more Detective work and Batman saying well Superman not a good Detective. Not Superman Job to be a detective

[Guts/Batman]

Even Pre Dick Batman..inspiring people wasnt as much his thing as Say Superman and Captain America

Batman admited it..it was kind of tough love..basicly said it "wont be Batman that people will look toward to when this ends..it going to be Superman so he best start bringing his A game"

Of course it wasn't. A well written Batman attempts to inspire hope and positive change in Gotham. He does it in a funny way, true, but he does attempt to isnpire hope and positive change in his city.

The hope that Batman and Superman inspires are completely different.

[IamtheRock3]

Of course it wasn't. A well written Batman attempts to inspire hope and positive change in Gotham. He does it in a funny way, true, but he does attempt to isnpire hope and positive change in his city.

The hope that Batman and Superman inspires are completely different.


End of the Day your still going to look toward Superman more

That the point

[Guts/Batman]

End of the Day your still going to look toward Superman more

That the point

That depends on where your at in the world.

Do you think Dick Grayson or Tim Drake looks to Superman more? ;)

[IamtheRock3]

That depends on where your at in the world.

Do you think Dick Grayson or Tim Drake looks to Superman more? ;)


Well In General it superman

[chriskenny]

I get a little tired of these disposable stories that feature Superman inspiring people to be heroes. It's just so tired. How many do we have to read it? I just want to see something different, and this type of stories feel very formulaic... I don't even mind reading it in the context of a broader, more compelling story. But its to the point that this isn't enough to warrant an issue of story-time. It just isn't.

Chris

[chriskenny]

Even Pre Dick Batman..inspiring people wasnt as much his thing as Say Superman and Captain America

Batman admited it..it was kind of tough love..basicly said it "wont be Batman that people will look toward to when this ends..it going to be Superman so he best start bringing his A game"


I like Batman...like the whole Best Human thing..but all ways though when it comes to inspiration Superman no 1..thats his Job. That what he do

But he hasnt been doing it as much lately

Just like Batman is Human perfection and and strong mental mind- he hasnt been doing Job lately

It WW Job to be a good diplomat and bring peace and morals. She hasnt been doing her Job

They each have a unique Job to do and they havent been doing it.

It be like Superman asking Batman to do more Detective work and Batman saying well Superman not a good Detective. Not Superman Job to be a detective

I think the movie Batman Begins showed a nice balance of scaring people and inspiring them. Gordon was certainly inspired by Batman's efforts. There was this lethargic, cynical acceptance of corruption before Batman hit the scene. Then at the end of the movie, Gordon tells Batman how he has not only averted disaster for the city, but he has also inspired a sea change in the way things were done in Gotham. I really like that. I really like that he chose to make himself an "incorruptible" symbol for the people to rally behind, for people to derive hope from while inspiring fears in others. It almost makes Batman a social reformer with an unorthodox approach.

There is a complexity there that is sort of lacking in the comic book representation of him. People have grown too comfortable with old perceptions of the character and choose to fall back on that.

[Guts/Batman]

There is a complexity there that is sort of lacking in the comic book representation of him. People have grown too comfortable with old perceptions of the character and choose to fall back on that.

I agree with you totally except for one thing. The complexity is lacking in the current comic book representation of Batman.

It has been there before. No Man's Land (At least the latter part of it for sure), for example.

But from there it kinda trickled down until he has none of that left. War Games/War Crimes and other Batman stories (yes, I'm talking about OMAC Project) killed it completely.

Not to say that it can't be gotten back, but it will take some while for the effects this current story (IC related stuff) break the current cycle so we get a human Batman back. By that I mean, an emotionally healthy human being.

They fix on Batman scaring and untrustworthiness and inability to feel trust (among other negative emotions) as opposed to the hope that someday in the the near future (while Bruce is still in the costume) that there will be no need for a vigilante like Batman in Gotham City.

Writers (and the editorial staff) have been focusing on only one aspect of what makes Batman...Batman. They have forgotten what makes Batman human. So when they decided to focus on the "negative" stuff (untrustworthiness, untrusting, unemotional, cold, etc), they put him on the path becoming inhuman as possible.

As the reader, we can only hope that some of what hasn't been focused on by writers will be returned to us when IC is over.