Darkseid!

[d00m]

One thing thats been bothering me lately is.. where is Darkseid during all of this? I mean, he did take control of Alex Luthor so the heroes from Earth could defeat the Anti-Monitor during the original crisis. Whats to stop him from taking control of Alex Luthor again and manipulating Kal-L and SB-Prime?

Afterall, Darskeid did say, "You owe me nothing. But one day you will pay."

[Shellhead]

One thing thats been bothering me lately is.. where is Darkseid during all of this? I mean, he did take control of Alex Luthor so the heroes from Earth could defeat the Anti-Monitor during the original crisis. Whats to stop him from taking control of Alex Luthor again and manipulating Kal-L and SB-Prime?

Afterall, Darskeid did say, "You owe me nothing. But one day you will pay."

He just appeared in Mister Miracle #2, which is part of the Seven Soldiers set of minis. Chronologically, it's unclear at this point if Seven Soldiers is pre- or post-Infinite Crisis, but Darkseid and all the other Fourth World characters have been transformed into street level-looking characters that seem like refugees from an early 70's blaxploitation movie. This is odd, because the Fourth World seemed almost completely unaffected by the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Guts/Batman]

Ummmmmmmmmm...

He still stuck up on the Source Wall. After Loebs run on S/B *shudders* ends, Darkseid will be back off the wall and hopefully back to his badass PC Darkseid mode.

[Guts/Batman]

This is odd, because the Fourth World seemed almost completely unaffected by the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Before I read COIE, I thought that too. But after reading COIE, it seems that it could have been affected if Darkseid would not have protected it by putting up some kind of shield that protected it from being sensed.

The AM knew about it and said he was going to go after Darkseid after he was done with the Earths, IIRC. So from that sense, the Fourth World was not affected by the AM's plot because he wasn't aiming it at the Fourth World.

[d00m]

Whats the source wall?
sorry, dont read S/B

[LordEd1976]

Whats the source wall?
sorry, dont read S/B

The source wall was i believe introduced in the 90s and is the location for all the major goings-on in the Genesis crossover.

Basically Its a wall as long and high as the universe itself. Behind it is the Source, the power energy that sustains the universe. Many have tried to breach the wall and draw power dircetly from the Source, usually for reasons that involve universal domination. All of these attempts have failed and those who blew it become giant statues entombed along the wall.

Darkseid was freed from the wall after being trapped there at the end of Genesis. Recently in the Supergirl arc of S/B Superman trapped Darkseid on the wall again.

[Buried Alien]

The source wall was i believe introduced in the 90s.

No, the Source Wall dates from the earliest Fourth World stories in the early 1970s. I first saw it in the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS crossover from 1982, and it was already a well-established part of DC mythology by that time.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Guts/Batman]

Whats the source wall?
sorry, dont read S/B

I bought 12-14 of S/B and haven't bought anymore, but I disgress.

I, too, wasn't sure what the Source Wall was when I read S/B #14.

[LordEd1976]

No, the Source Wall dates from the earliest Fourth World stories in the early 1970s. I first saw it in the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS crossover from 1982, and it was already a well-established part of DC mythology by that time.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

ah. oops. my bad.

[Sean Walsh]

No, the Source Wall dates from the earliest Fourth World stories in the early 1970s. I first saw it in the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS crossover from 1982, and it was already a well-established part of DC mythology by that time.


Actually, that X-MEN/TITANS crossover was the first time the Wall had ever been seen (originally designed by Walt Simonson). The Source was, IIRC, much more ambiguous during the years before that.

Afterall, Darskeid did say, "You owe me nothing. But one day you will pay."

Didio's pretty much said "Darkseid and the New Gods have nothing to do with IC."

But with all the "callbacks" to COIE so far, it just seems REALLY strange that they'd completely leave out the guy who (basically) defeated the Anti-Monitor the first time around...

Grasping at straws, but hey........it'd be cool if he was really behind a lot of all this, wouldn't it?

[DDM]

Didio's pretty much said "Darkseid and the New Gods have nothing to do with IC."

But with all the "callbacks" to COIE so far, it just seems REALLY strange that they'd completely leave out the guy who (basically) defeated the Anti-Monitor the first time around...

Grasping at straws, but hey........it'd be cool if he was really behind a lot of all this, wouldn't it?

Darkseid was more concerned for self-preservation & his planet, Apokolips, when he attacked the Anti-Monitor through Alexander Luthor in Crisis On Infinite Earths #12. Darkseid was helping himself more than helping the heroes.

[XPac]

Considering how much more powerful (and COOL) pre-crisis Darkseid was, I wonder if he wouldn't be rooting for E2 Superman if it somehow means a return to the pre-crisis DC (which obviously is no gurantee).

[Guts/Batman]

Darkseid was more concerned for self-preservation & his planet, Apokolips, when he attacked the Anti-Monitor through Alexander Luthor in Crisis On Infinite Earths #12. Darkseid was helping himself more than helping the heroes.

Exactly.

Once the Anti-Monitor was done with "Earth", he would have been focusing all of his forces against Apokolips and New Genesis.

And I'm no expert on PC Darkseid (though I am a major fan and know his extreme power), but I'm not sure even PC Darksied could have been able to handle the AM's full onslaught.

He was striking at the Anti-Monitor while he himself was not being targetted by the Anti-Monitor.

What is interesting is that Luthor and Brainiac are allied for this crisis just like they were during COIE, for different purposes. And how the situation is...opposite than it was for COIE.

Add Darkseid to the alliance and it might show that this Crisis is somehow more dangerous because we know what Darkseid did back in COIE #12. He was afterall, the main reason why E2 Superman was able to "beat" the Anti-Monitor.

[trickster]

Didio's pretty much said "Darkseid and the New Gods have nothing to do with IC."

I call BS. After his role in S/B, where a lot of events that influenced the Crisis happened, and considering how he was involved with president Luthor, you're gonna believe that? And with his efforts of coming back from the Source Wall just in time for the Crisis?

[Guts/Batman]

Didio's pretty much said "Darkseid and the New Gods have nothing to do with IC."

I don't believe anything Didio says...

[trickster]

I don't believe anything Didio says...

I should have put that in quotes.

[Walter Simonson]

[QUOTE=Sean Walsh]Actually, that X-MEN/TITANS crossover was the first time the Wall had ever been seen (originally designed by Walt Simonson). The Source was, IIRC, much more ambiguous during the years before that.

Sean is correct here. However, I do take the notion that someone feels that the Souce Wall dates back to the early 70's, which would almost certainly have to be Kirby's work, as a great compliment. And an indication that the Souce Wall seems to fit well into the original Fourth World mythology.

In NG 5 (Spawn), the issue's opening 4 pages show Metron entering the Promethean Galaxy with its chained giants, great beings who had tried to 'achieve the maximum state', failed, and been left strapped to fragments of their equipment. But there was no Wall as such. Chris and I extrapolated from there to invent the Souce Wall as a sort of visible 'edge' of the universe beyond which it was not possible for mortals OR gods to go. Perhaps beyond it somewhere was the Source although to say even that much is to remove some of the mystery we intended for the Wall. Mostly, we thought it was a cool visual.

:)

Best/Walter

[Buried Alien]

Well, if Walt Simonson himself confirms that the Source Wall was first created for the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS crossover, I'm not going to argue otherwise. :)

Walt's right about the impression that he and Chris Claremont created in that crossover, however: it was certainly my first exposure to the Source Wall, but even then I had the feeling that it wasn't something new...that it was something that had been around since the New Gods were first introduced by DC. It indeed had that "Jack Kirby" look to it.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[yeoman]

Darkseid was more concerned for self-preservation & his planet, Apokolips, when he attacked the Anti-Monitor through Alexander Luthor in Crisis On Infinite Earths #12. Darkseid was helping himself more than helping the heroes.

Actually, he seemed entirely unconcerned to me. When confronted about The Crisis his reaction amounted to "Oh. That." Like it was a noisey parade a few blocks over.

[Buried Alien]

Actually, he seemed entirely unconcerned to me. When confronted about The Crisis his reaction amounted to "Oh. That." Like it was a noisey parade a few blocks over.

Still, Darkseid is nobody's fool. He knew what the Anti-Monitor had wrought and he had no intention of letting himself or Apokolips become the Anti-Monitor's next target. Darkseid devised a way to sucker-punch the Anti-Monitor by using Alexander Luthor and then let the Golden Age Superman finish the job.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mulett]

I think a big limitation on Inifinte Crisis is that it is only seven issues long, rather than 12 like CoIE. So it may be that a lot of characters who had a major role in CoIE - or even just played a part in a few crucial scenes - won't appear this time. I would love to see a big gun like Darkseid play some role, however, especially if it turned out that he had sown the seeds of IC 20 years ago during the final pages of CoIE.

Both Alexander Luthor and Superboy Prime were definitely heroes/good guys during CoIE, so there does need to be a good explanation as to why they both turned bad.

[XPac]

The lack of Darkseid is no big loss. Pre-Crisis Darkseid was a powerful dangerous foe that made a HUGE difference.

But what is current Darkseid going to do? Hang around in another barn waiting to pop out at Superboy when he happens byt?

[Sean Walsh]

But what is current Darkseid going to do? Hang around in another barn waiting to pop out at Superboy when he happens byt?

Apparently, he's going to be quaking in fear at the existance of a new cosmic foe that will be introduced OYL... :rolleyes:

[Desaad]

I think a big limitation on Inifinte Crisis is that it is only seven issues long, rather than 12 like CoIE. So it may be that a lot of characters who had a major role in CoIE - or even just played a part in a few crucial scenes - won't appear this time. I would love to see a big gun like Darkseid play some role, however, especially if it turned out that he had sown the seeds of IC 20 years ago during the final pages of CoIE.

Both Alexander Luthor and Superboy Prime were definitely heroes/good guys during CoIE, so there does need to be a good explanation as to why they both turned bad.

I think the page count is going to be about the same -- Every issue of Infinite Crisis is extra-size, where as only two of Crisis on Infinite Earths were.



Astro

[Buried Alien]

I think the page count is going to be about the same -- Every issue of Infinite Crisis is extra-size, where as only two of Crisis on Infinite Earths were.



Astro

Wolfman and Perez compacted alot more story per page than Johns and Jiminez do, however.

Also, I can't help but feel that today's comics have more ad pages in them than comics of yore did. And didn't COIE (at least some issues) run completely ad-free?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Guts/Batman]

Wolfman and Perez compacted alot more story per page than Johns and Jiminez do, however.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Definitely agree with this statement.

This is one of the things that bugs me about Infinite Crisis to this point. It isn't explaining enough. It isn't doing enough storytelling. It's not connecting enough dots.

[Sean Walsh]

In today's CRISIS COUNSELING over at Newsarama, we get an update on Infinite Crisis and Darkseid & the New Gods' roles:

?: When will we see Darkseid again?

DD: We’ve kept Darkseid and the New Gods away from Crisis for a very specific reason. All I can say is, “look to the skies.”