Black Canary and All Star Batman and Robin #3

[rey.scorpio]

Gail,

I'd like your comments and opinions on the the Black Canary's portrayal in this issue. From your point of view did the book or the characterization of that character make any sense? I refused to buy the book after reading it (it was on my pull list) and I'm in disbelief that DC Comics allowed this book to be published.

I know you have no input on the marketing,publishing or character use/placement in other books of a character you write on a montly basis but the use of the Canary in this book was an abomination. I enjoy and buy the Birds of Prey in no small part because you write the characters so well. Thank you for the great writing.

[Night Swordsman]

I don't find Canary as protrayed in this issue as a abomination. Frank is trying to bring her back to her original roots as she first appeared,but also with a slightly modern twist. This IS NOT the Canary that inhabits the mainstream DCU(Would that make this the GODDAMN ALLSTAR Universe?). I actually enjoyed it(but to be fair..i missed the second issue..read it but forgot to purchase it..they are all gone in my area now...) but it was nothing special. I DID enjoy Jim Lee's art,and the cameos(thou i did not like Ollie as a biker bit).


I am sorry you did not like it,but i am also glad since you disliked it you decided not to purchase it. Seems alot of people do not like this series,and the only way to protest against it that will have quick action will be with your wallets. Just make sure they are in your front pockets at all times. :)

PS. I REALLY hated the Frank Miller cover. My appreiciation for his art has slid to almost zero based on the works he has done the last few years.

[jerrymcl89]

I also thought Miller's Canary was a good character, albeit with the caveat that she is not in anyway the one running around in the DCU. Which is mostly how I feel about the entire goddam Millerverse. I think the book is a lot of fun.

[pennywisdom]

I haven't read issue 3 yet. Having said that, this book has been pretty weak when it comes to plotting, pacing, and dialogue. I'm buying it mainly for the art.

As far as characterization goes, this isn't the same Canary that appears in the mainstream DCU. The DCASU (DC All-Star Universe) isn't meant to be a carbon copy, anyway. Is Ultimate Captain America anything like 616 Cap? Aside from the name and WWII service, no.

[stealthwise]

Not to pick on anyone specifically, but it's interesting that anything can be justified once you say "but this isn't the original version, it's Ultimate/All-Star/Out of Continuity." And there's nothing really wrong with that... until All-Star Batman and Robin, imo.

It's not just taking a character out of their established continuity or roots, it's deliberately mocking them with distasteful self-parody. Some dig it, I don't. Which is ironic, given that I enjoy the hell out of the Ultimates, and I'm not really any more attached to Batman and Robin than I am to any other character really.

Maybe it just seems like Miller is attemping to pull the biggest caper of them all. I guess that's great for some, but I don't want to see the trend continue in comics to follow. It's a one-note joke that's already run sour for me.

[Calamas]

I stand with those who point out that this doesn’t count. Miller has been given a clean slate--the whole point of “All-Star,” as I understood it--and he’s free go where he wants in what manner he wants. I see this in no way as a slam to Gail or BoP, not like the slut disguised as Helena who appeared in Outsiders or the jab of having Dinah apologize for Blue Beetle in Countdown, something she would *never* do. You don’t have to like ASB&R--and most people on message boards apparently don’t--but I doubt there’s any malice intended.

Complaints of plot and pacing seem more valid. For myself, I liked #1, #2 not so much, though not for the reasons most people appear to. As for #3, I liked what I saw, but it also felt light in content. I closed the book thinking, There should be more. Probably a B, B-. I’ll be there for more.

[stealthwise]

Plot and pacing are pretty poor, that's true.

Myself, I hate the dialogue that I read in the first couple of issues. Just awful stuff.

[Alex Dragon]

Plot and pacing are pretty poor, that's true.

Myself, I hate the dialogue that I read in the first couple of issues. Just awful stuff.

I just got back into town and haven't read that issue yet but over my vacation I watch the new SIN CITY DVD with all the commentary on it and it just drove home what I thought about Frank Miller all along. Miller is a great storyteller but most of that greatness comes from the stuff he does visually much moreso than his actual writing abilities. Take Sin City and have an average artist draw it in a more typical style and in my opinion you're left with a story that's not really that great or powerful.

When Miller's not doing the art and able to do that bold style of visual to give the story that extra "omph" you're not really left with much in my opinion. I think Brian Azzarello and Brian Bendis do the "noir", "tough guy", "crime" stuff better than Miller on a writing level.

I tend to think DC gives Miller free reign because he moves product and is held in such high regards not because they read those scripts and are impressed so much by them.

[Goldeneye]

I just got back into town and haven't read that issue yet but over my vacation I watch the new SIN CITY DVD with all the commentary on it and it just drove home what I thought about Frank Miller all along. Miller is a great storyteller but most of that greatness comes from the stuff he does visually much moreso than his actual writing abilities. Take Sin City and have an average artist draw it in a more typical style and in my opinion you're left with a story that's not really that great or powerful.

When Miller's not doing the art and able to do that bold style of visual to give the story that extra "omph" you're not really left with much in my opinion. I think Brian Azzarello and Brian Bendis do the "noir", "tough guy", "crime" stuff better than Miller on a writing level.


That's true to a certain extent, but I'd still argue Miller-penned stories like Daredevil: Born Again, Love & War, Elektra: Assassin, Year One, and a couple others are just good as his solo efforts. It seems to depend mainly on the artists; he has a tendency to focus on more "bombastic" and sillier stories with flashy artists, and more down-to-earth stories with people like Mazzucchelli. Although the Martha Washington stuff is pretty wacky, and Dave Gibbons draws that, so who knows.

I agree, though, that he normally works better as writer/artist.

[EdContradictory]

Plot and pacing are pretty poor, that's true.

Myself, I hate the dialogue that I read in the first couple of issues. Just awful stuff.
Pacing is atrocious. An entire issue where Canary decides to fight crime (I guess) and then beats people up and Batman dives the Batmobile under water.

That's it.

And somehow, even though it's the same night that Batman rescued Dick, it's been long enough that Dick is on a milk carton in Metropolis.

This book is AWFUL.

[The Xenos]

I'm in the camp that's enjoying this over the top tale as a stand alone entity. At the same time I hate the format. This should not be the start of some 'Ultimate' like or whatever lineup. This should be a miniseries by Frank Miller. Miller even said this is in the same world as Dark Knight Returns. Hell, as nice as Lee's art is, I wish Miller was drawing the damn thing himself.

-Xenos

[taintedlunch]

Still, this is a work of genius compared to DK2.